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Morgan Freeman on Shooter
Topic Started: Dec 15 2012, 08:45 PM (177 Views)
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Morgan Freeman
 
You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news.
A fairly fascinating response by Morgan Freeman on the recent shooting of at an elementary school
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Thors Varyag
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That almost makes sense
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The Iron Rebel
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He has a point, they talk more about the shooter then they do the victims.
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Yeah, I'm not sure I agree with him though that the medias focus makes people want to do this stuff or that gun control is not part of the problem. But I do agree that mental health is a very relevant issue.
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Fuzzy
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Yeah, there is definitely something to be said for considering the mental health issues behind these problems, and what causes people to go out and do something like this.
But to suggest that gun control isn't an issue is foolish. These shootings are a relatively regular occurrence in the US especially recently with the Oregon mall shooting and this. (I was in that very mall in July, whilst over in the US visiting relatives. It's a really weird and unpleasant feeling to be able to picture the place something like this has happened in, and to think that you could have been the one shot at...)
To me that makes gun control a major part of the issue, because this kind of thing rarely happens at all here in the UK, where guns are very strictly controlled and owning a gun is a rarity. In fact, wikipedia lists only one school shooting in British history - The Dunblane Massacre,
whereas there have been more than 100 in the US, where guns are freely accessible to most of the population. If that doesn't suggest a correlation between gun accessibility and mass shootings, I don't know what does.
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Freeman is right, it's all because of a sick need for attention, personal/mental problems etc.
The media indeed give those freaks unnecessary "immortality".
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Yes, because this attention is doing the shooter wonders. Wait, no, hes dead. Also, being close to people who do have mental problems, i object to you labelling them as freaks. And if society treated them better instead of labelling them as freaks, well, maybe the likes of this tragedy would happen less often. Couple that to the absolutely stupid gun control laws that exist in places like the US, then you have a problem. Now, im not saying that people are treated better in the UK. As tge Raoul Moat situation showed the other year, we dont. But our gun control is better. Dont judge people
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I'm sorry but people who randomly attack and kill dozens of innocent children and adults because they are mentally ill and have their obsure reasons (or even don't have any), are the real freaks. And don't use any silly political correctness now. I don't pity mad killers, even when they commit suicide. It's utterly unfair that they must kill people before they 'escape' from this world. In this case I'm fairly conservative. Of course those problems should be diagnosed and treated earlier, although in my opinion there is no absolute cure.

And by the way, people judge themselves from the beginning of times, more or less. Saying 'dont judge people' can be both positive (if increases tolerance) or negative (if increases censorship on individual opinions). I don't think tolerance towards killers should actually increase.
Edited by Ravenna, Dec 16 2012, 01:57 PM.
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Im not suggesting sympathy with these disturbed people. But can you say theyd have done it had they received proper support and help from society? Do you know what its like for them? Ive lost count of the suicide attempts ive stopped. The bloodied limbs ive bound, covered in sometimes deep gashes. Thanks to support, that person is still around. That person has had murderous thoughts, as well as suicidal, but thanks to support, not just from me, that same person has not snapped. I know that it is hard work, but society is capable of that work. Theres a book somewhere, says something like judge not lest ye be judged. Freak is an incorrect label. A freak is something that has broken free of its nature, like a freak storm. Humans do only things that are in our nature. We have killed each other since day one. It is impossible to justify what these sometimes crazy people do. Yet even at the height of IRA terrorism, including an attack not so far from me in my lifetime, we never suffered the same levels of tragedy, and this was from people who viewed themselves as freedom fighters where the ends justify the means. Anybody is a valid target. But this was different. A statistic. In the UK in 2009, there were 18 gun related homicides. In the US it was 9146. Thats, what, 500 times the number? Yeah, ok, the US is bigger, but there are not 500 times more people there. 88.8 people in every hundred may own a gun (maybe say there are 88.8 guns for every hundred civilians) is that a healthy society? No. If society did more, stuff like this may happen less often
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Govindia
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Rach
Dec 15 2012, 08:45 PM
Morgan Freeman
 
You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news.
A fairly fascinating response by Morgan Freeman on the recent shooting of at an elementary school
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Govindia
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Fuzzy
Dec 16 2012, 07:16 AM
Yeah, there is definitely something to be said for considering the mental health issues behind these problems, and what causes people to go out and do something like this.
But to suggest that gun control isn't an issue is foolish. These shootings are a relatively regular occurrence in the US especially recently with the Oregon mall shooting and this. (I was in that very mall in July, whilst over in the US visiting relatives. It's a really weird and unpleasant feeling to be able to picture the place something like this has happened in, and to think that you could have been the one shot at...)
To me that makes gun control a major part of the issue, because this kind of thing rarely happens at all here in the UK, where guns are very strictly controlled and owning a gun is a rarity. In fact, wikipedia lists only one school shooting in British history - The Dunblane Massacre,
whereas there have been more than 100 in the US, where guns are freely accessible to most of the population. If that doesn't suggest a correlation between gun accessibility and mass shootings, I don't know what does.
Gun Control is not the issue.

The firearms used in the attack were all STOLEN from his mother, who was also dead.

Gun Control does nothing but disarm the innocent when they need it most.

In Chicago, IL, USA, where I partly grew up, they have the strictest gun controls in the nation, and violent crime has still gone up!

And the US Supreme Court has struck down Illinois' Concealed-carry ban for good reason:
http://blogs.suntimes.com/politics/2012/12/big_win_for_gun-rights_groups_federal_appeals_court_tosses_state_ban_on_carrying_concealed_weapons.html

Even in your country Fuzzy, violent crime has rise at least 35% in England. DUring the riots in London, because people couldn't have guns, there was a rise in sales on Amazon.co.uk for billy clubs for shopkeepers and residents to defend their property with.

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Gun control is preferable to any old nut having a gun. I dread to think what the riots would have been like had anyone carried a gun. Rioters with guns? People defending themselves, with guns? It would have been horrendous. Imagine it. And that all resulted from someone being shot by police over an issue involving firearms. I dont know how you can justify what you just said
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It goes without saying that there will be a correlation between access to guns and gun crime. I'm not saying that people in the UK are less violent than elsewhere. The London riots, as you pointed out Govindia, were a good example of British violence. As Thors says though, having access to guns changes the kind of violence completely, from one where fatalities are the exception to one where fatalities are a given. If there had been wide access to guns in London during the riots there would have been bodies on every street corner.
Shootings in the UK are immensely rare, so rare that the vast majority of police can operate safely in this country with nothing more than a baton and a pair of handcuffs, something we Brits are very proud of. Some police carry tasers, but even those are controversial here because of the occasional heart attack caused by them, and require special training before police are allowed to use them. Even riot police don't carry firearms, they simply wear more armour.
It doesn't stop gun rampages, and it doesn't stop violent crimes, assaults, murders or robberies, but it does make them rarer and far more survivable.
For comparison, there have been two large scale gun attacks in Britain in the 20th century, and there have been more than 100 attacks on schools alone in the US since the beginning of the 19th century.

Agreed, it was pointed out about the shooter at that school that he was refused a gun and stole a legitimately licensed one from his mother, but that doesn't change the fact that guns are easily accessible in the US, or that a similar thing would have been immensely difficult to do in the UK because of how few people own firearms and the kinds of guns allowed.

I looked up UK gun licensing, and found some info on wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom
You are immensely restricted in what kind of gun you can have, and for what reasons you can have it. To obtain a firearm certificate in the UK, the police must be convinced that a person has "good reason" to own each firearm, and that they can be trusted with it "without danger to the public safety or to the peace". Under Home Office guidelines, firearms licences are only issued if a person has legitimate sporting, collecting, or work-related reasons for ownership. Since 1968, self-defence has not been considered a valid reason to own a firearm in the UK.

The current licensing procedure involves: positive verification of identity, two referees of verifiable good character who have known the applicant for at least two years (and who may themselves be interviewed and/or investigated as part of the certification), approval of the application by the applicant's own family doctor, an inspection of the premises and cabinet where firearms will be kept and a face-to-face interview by a Firearms Enquiry Officer (FEO) also known as a Firearms Liaison Officer (FLO). A thorough background check of the applicant is then made by Special Branch on behalf of the firearms licensing department. Only when all these stages have been satisfactorily completed will a license be issued, which must be renewed every 5 years.

Any person who has been sentenced to three years or more in prison is automatically banned for life from obtaining a firearms licence. Similarly, persons applying for licences with recent, serious mental health issues will also be refused a certificate.

Any person holding a Firearm or Shotgun Certificate must comply with strict conditions regarding such things as safe storage. These storage arrangements are checked by the police before a licence is first granted, and on every renewal of the licence. A local police force may impose additional conditions on ownership, over and above those set out by law. Failure to comply with any of these conditions can mean forfeiture of the licence and surrender of any firearms to the police, though due to the complicated laws, different forces in the UK interpret the regulations in different ways, and many conditions have been overthrown following legal proceedings against issuing Police forces.

Largely as a result of these strict gun control laws, The United Kingdom has one of the lowest rates of gun homicides in the world with 0.07 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants in 2009 compared to the United States' 3.0 and to Germany's 0.21.

Apparently gun crimes have been falling annually since the introduction of these laws. Once again, they're not perfect, and people have gotten their hands on guns and killed people, and police have shot people dead without good cause (a policeman killing someone was what caused the London riots), but it is a tiny fraction of what occurs in the US.
I'm not saying that gun control alone is the cause, or that gun control changes everything, because there are clearly some mental health issues that need to be addressed with people who do this, and it is perfectly possible that if you have proper mental health evaluation procedures in place you can have a safe country with guns, but that would involve doing a psychiatric evaluation of every citizen in the US, and that isn't really plausible.
Edited by Fuzzy, Dec 17 2012, 05:13 PM.
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