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Regional Government; What will it be?
Topic Started: 27 Jan 2013 - 03:30 (850 Views)
Andropoland
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Okay! We need to decide a few things related to the regional government. I also want to keep the momentum we've attained so far going, because once we lose that momentum we're going to start stagnating.

First questions: Should we set up a provisional government while we work on a Constitutional Convention, or should we just remain governmentless until the Convention is finished?

2. When should we start the Constitutional Convention? Should we start it now, wait for a few more people to show up, etc.?

3. How should we hold the Convention? Multiple meetings over IRC? Just on the forums? A mix of both?

4. Who will preside over it? I nominate and second myself. I also opened and closed the voting, so I already have the position. (P.S., this is why Zdenka won't let me have admin permissions. :P )

And, finally, what do you want the government of Barrayar to be like? Are there any things you want us to avoid? We're, obviously, going to be some kind of democratic state (Republic, Direct Democracy, Anarchy, etc.), but it would be nice to know what specifics you had in mind.

(Note: I believe that all the threads in "Suggestions and improvements" would look great in the "regional Reform" subforum instead. Just sayin'...)
Edited by Andropoland, 27 Jan 2013 - 04:56.
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Raven
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:'(
Edited by Raven, 27 Jan 2013 - 21:11.
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Andropoland
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2 people is a group... :P
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Raven
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I was thinking a group of five permanents and an elected body...kind of like the UN security council. They can basically veto anything, (but in this case they have more power)
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Andropoland
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I can't tell if you're being serious or not, but I'll let you know now that that simply isn't going to happen. :P

We're a Democracy. If it wouldn't pose a major problem with regional security, we'd auction off the founder nation in an election. :P

Permanent positions in government aren't going to happen. Sorry, but they just aren't.
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Cleverwhatever
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Crazydunn
27 Jan 2013 - 12:27
I would like to see a Parliamentary Democracy. That could be fun and interesting.
I would also like to see this implemented. Commonwealth buddies forever :D
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Western Isles of Naybra
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Judges should be appointed by "Ye Executive". 2/3 vote sounds good for deciding verdicts. What did Raven do. He told Westphalia? Anyway the "Supreme ruler by majority" should be a single executive. No ofilwhayever. It should be a democracy. A republic might be harder because who do the representatives represent? Clusters of nations? It would definitely make voting harder. Who is raven by the way?
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Western Isles of Naybra
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Since admin isn't political, can you just make Andro one?
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Zdenka
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Western Isles of Naybra
28 Jan 2013 - 01:55
Since admin isn't political, can you just make Andro one?
Keita or I could, but we are not going to at this time. I have explained why to him privately.
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Zdenka
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I dunno, I think Keita and I are more like a triumvirate (except that there are two of us and I am, in fact, not a man). :P

Agreeing with Andro, that there are not going to be permanent positions. Except presumably myself as founder and the admin team as need. (Sorry, Barrayar is kinda stuck with me. I'll try very hard not to be too despotic or controlling, though.) Minor tangent: I do intend for there to be restrictions on the founder and admins. On the (very long) list of Things to Do is drafting a Code of Conduct for admins and mods, as well as a declaration of principles that I will voluntarily bind myself to as founder.

Could the Commonwealth members explain how a parliamentary democracy is different from Exec + elected representative body?
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Caninope
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A parliamentary democracy would presumably have an indirectly elected executive.
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Zdenka
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Ah, I see.

Does that also include having both a Prime Minister and a President? They used to have that system in Renaissance. It seemed a bit superfluous to me when the Senate only had five members, and Ile intended the presidency as a permanent position for himself, which is also not good.

But I freely admit I'm not very familiar with the system. Anyone have pros and cons, or want to elaborate?
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Andropoland
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The difference is simple. There are Presidential Democracies and Parliamentary Democracies. In a Presidential Democracy, the people directly elect both the Legislature and the Executive, like in the U.S. However, in a Parliamentary Democracy, the people elect the Legislature and the Legislature elects the Executive (Which is usually a Prime Minister), such as in the UK or other Commonwealth states like New Zealand and Canada.

I prefer the Presidential Democracy.

Renaissance was weird because, generally, no state has both a President and a PM, because those are basically the same position. I think Ile just kinda thought that one up, as it doesn't actually line up with any real-life governmental system. In real-life, it's either-or, not both. :P
Edited by Andropoland, 28 Jan 2013 - 06:16.
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Zdenka
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In the Commonwealth form, does the Executive start out as a member of the legislature? I can see how that would make sense with a large legislative body, but less so with a handful of people. I mean, would you need the people to elect six members who then make one of themselves the PM and no longer a member of the Senate/Parliament? Or could they elect anyone from the region?
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Quinncunx
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just a thought that came to me, but why don't the founders create a provisional constitution. That creates job for people. For me certainly, I am going to get bored here very quickly if we keep discussing what form the Government should take and I suspect this could happen to other people too.

Not having a job, or the prospect of getting a job (whether permanent or provisional) is the only thing that stops me from telling Mike what I think of him and his region.

I don't think the Main constitution should be rushed, but I don't think we can amble along either discussing a constitutional convention and how it should proceed without loosing some members.
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Andropoland
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Okay... I have an idea, and one I actually hope to put into place very soon if it has public approval. We decide the basics now (With a series of polls, probably), and then we use that as a "provisional" government until a Constitution can be put into place.

This will also definitely help speed along the Convention if it already has the skeleton of the government decided. Probably move it down from a few weeks to only a few days.

Since we don't have the "Like/dislike" feature built in yet, just quote this post and say *like* or *Dislike*.
Edited by Andropoland, 28 Jan 2013 - 20:57.
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Caninope
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Andropoland
28 Jan 2013 - 06:14
Renaissance was weird because, generally, no state has both a President and a PM, because those are basically the same position. I think Ile just kinda thought that one up, as it doesn't actually line up with any real-life governmental system. In real-life, it's either-or, not both. :P
You are completely and utterly wrong. There are two options that can involve a President and a Prie Minister. The first involves true power given to both the President and the Prime Minister. That's called a semi-Presidential system, and it's become increasingly common. Countries using it include, among others, the People Republic of China (in theory), the Republic of China (Taiwan), France, Russia, Ukraine, the new Egyptian system, the new Tunisian system, and quite a number of sub-Saharan African nations. The second option is a parliamentary Republic with a toothless President or other elected Head of State and a powerful Prime Minister. This list includes, among others, Germany Greece, Pakistan, Poland, Singapore, etc.
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Caninope
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Zdenka
28 Jan 2013 - 15:28
In the Commonwealth form, does the Executive start out as a member of the legislature? I can see how that would make sense with a large legislative body, but less so with a handful of people. I mean, would you need the people to elect six members who then make one of themselves the PM and no longer a member of the Senate/Parliament? Or could they elect anyone from the region?
In a parliamentary system, the executive is a member of the legislative.
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Western Isles of Naybra
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No provisional government. Lets just start the Convention since you guys are complaining. It might take a while, but it is sure to be the best in all of NationStates.

*Technically, the provisional government is the admins. Locking up Bob like that was being a tyrannt. I understand spam mail.*
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Western Isles of Naybra
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When do we expect to start?
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Andropoland
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Today? Tomorrow? Soon?
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