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Topic Started: 21 Feb 2013 - 16:19 (246 Views)
Raven
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So... whoever's in charge around here... how long am I going to be waiting for citizenship?
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George Louis
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Not sure if this helps but I found this in the Citizen application forum.

Andropoland: Couldn't help but notice Raven moved his nation out of the region. So... yeah.
Zdenka: *shrug* Oh, well. I guess he's not a citizen, then.

Maybe you should re-apply for Citizenship ?


Edited by George Louis, 21 Feb 2013 - 16:39.
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Quinncunx
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I concur.
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Keita
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Raven, move a nation of yours in here, and apply for citizenship, and we'll consider it. That's how it works, as you very well know. :)
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Quinncunx
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Keita
21 Feb 2013 - 16:46
Raven, move a nation of yours in here, and apply for citizenship, and we'll consider it. That's how it works, as you very well know. :)
not strictly true. The admins did say they had to have a special discussion about raven. The legal framework that you felt you had to require a discussion does not seem to be public? Could you direct me to where you derive your power over granting citizenship?
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Raven
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Quinncunx
21 Feb 2013 - 16:53
Keita
21 Feb 2013 - 16:46
Raven, move a nation of yours in here, and apply for citizenship, and we'll consider it. That's how it works, as you very well know. :)
not strictly true. The admins did say they had to have a special discussion about raven. The legal framework that you felt you had to require a discussion does not seem to be public? Could you direct me to where you derive your power over granting citizenship?
No, there were no conditions stated for citizenship. Nowhere does it say I need to keep my nation here all the time to maintain citizenship.
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George Louis
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Raven
21 Feb 2013 - 16:54
Quinncunx
21 Feb 2013 - 16:53
Keita
21 Feb 2013 - 16:46
Raven, move a nation of yours in here, and apply for citizenship, and we'll consider it. That's how it works, as you very well know. :)
not strictly true. The admins did say they had to have a special discussion about raven. The legal framework that you felt you had to require a discussion does not seem to be public? Could you direct me to where you derive your power over granting citizenship?
No, there were no conditions stated for citizenship. Nowhere does it say I need to keep my nation here all the time to maintain citizenship.
It is common knowledge that a nation is required to maintain citizenship within a region.
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Quinncunx
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George Louis
21 Feb 2013 - 17:09
Raven
21 Feb 2013 - 16:54
Quinncunx
21 Feb 2013 - 16:53
Keita
21 Feb 2013 - 16:46
Raven, move a nation of yours in here, and apply for citizenship, and we'll consider it. That's how it works, as you very well know. :)
not strictly true. The admins did say they had to have a special discussion about raven. The legal framework that you felt you had to require a discussion does not seem to be public? Could you direct me to where you derive your power over granting citizenship?
No, there were no conditions stated for citizenship. Nowhere does it say I need to keep my nation here all the time to maintain citizenship.
It is common knowledge that a nation is required to maintain citizenship within a region.
I disagree that it is always required. I am in 2 regions that its not required. It usually is legislated to be a requirement
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Raven
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Quinncunx
21 Feb 2013 - 17:14
George Louis
21 Feb 2013 - 17:09
Raven
21 Feb 2013 - 16:54
Quinncunx
21 Feb 2013 - 16:53
Keita
21 Feb 2013 - 16:46
Raven, move a nation of yours in here, and apply for citizenship, and we'll consider it. That's how it works, as you very well know. :)
not strictly true. The admins did say they had to have a special discussion about raven. The legal framework that you felt you had to require a discussion does not seem to be public? Could you direct me to where you derive your power over granting citizenship?
No, there were no conditions stated for citizenship. Nowhere does it say I need to keep my nation here all the time to maintain citizenship.
It is common knowledge that a nation is required to maintain citizenship within a region.
I disagree that it is always required. I am in 2 regions that its not required. It usually is legislated to be a requirement
And it was and is clearly not legislated.
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Keita
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I refer you to this post in the citizenship application thread.

We don't at this time have a government to grant citizenship, so until such time as we do, this is the procedure we follow. Although not outright stated in the requested post, I thought the fact that we ask which nation of yours is located here implied that having a nation here was required. If you feel the implication isn't strongly enough implied to be immediately obvious, I will edit the post immediately to reflect this. :)
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Quinncunx
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well why has Raven never been accepted?
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Keita
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Quinncunx
21 Feb 2013 - 17:23
well why has Raven never been accepted?
Because he removed his nation from the region, and was therefore no longer eligible for citizenship. It's really as simple as that.
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Quinncunx
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In which case then, his nation Roxaboxin is now here http://www.nationstates.net/nation=roxaboxin so you can grant him citizenship, unless you want him to go through the formality of applying needlessly again?

EDIT:Am I to take it that the admin team denies there were special circumstances as to why he was not previously immediately accepted?
Edited by Quinncunx, 21 Feb 2013 - 17:33.
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Keita
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Quinncunx
21 Feb 2013 - 17:32
In which case then, his nation Roxaboxin is now here http://www.nationstates.net/nation=roxaboxin so you can grant him citizenship, unless you want him to go through the formality of applying needlessly again?

EDIT:Am I to take it that the admin team denies there were special circumstances as to why he was not previously immediately accepted?
He should, yes. If I make an exception for him to be granted citizenship without following procedure, I'm fairly sure our resident lawyers would be all over me for not following procedure. :P

As for "special circumstances"...no, I don't for a second deny it. Raven once pretended to befriend us, and instead sold us out. Of course there are trust issues there. I had some questions for him, which I PM'ed to him, and we were considering on whether or not to trust him again when he removed his nation, thus making the entire point moot.
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Quinncunx
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But what gives the admins the unilateral power to make those decisions?

How're you guys indeed any different from Mike?
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Raven
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Why did you drag me back here again?
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Quinncunx
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Keita
21 Feb 2013 - 17:31
Quinncunx
21 Feb 2013 - 17:23
well why has Raven never been accepted?
Because he removed his nation from the region, and was therefore no longer eligible for citizenship. It's really as simple as that.
His application is posted.
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Keita
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Quinncunx
21 Feb 2013 - 17:44
But what gives the admins the unilateral power to make those decisions?

How're you guys indeed any different from Mike?
The difference is, we were open with Raven about this right from the start. I told him outright that we didn't trust him, and why. I asked him why he, someone who betrayed us, would then turn around and want to be part of the very thing he opposed? It didn't make any sense to me, and frankly, I'm still not sure it does. Is it unreasonable to ask such things, given the history - history, I might add, you were very much part of, Quinn, so you really should know all of this already - between us? Mike never acknowledged that his actions were personal. That was never a consideration with Raven since I made myself very clear to him right from the start.

And now I want to ask you, Quinn. Can I assume from Raven's question that he is here now because you asked him to return? If so, may I ask why?
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Quinncunx
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I have asked him to return because he is my friend and I would like him to be able to be in an active region, I have asked him to join the BCP so I can get more members, he has played on the minecraft server I donated to the region so it seemed only proper that he was also a part of the region. West is a dying den, he wants to play in an active region if you're going to deny him that then I am afraid Keita you and I will have to fall out.
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Keita
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Quinn, let's not play that game, shall we? I didn't let Mike walk all over me, and I'm not about to let you try that. If we fall out, then we fall out. I'm not about to let you rush me. Now, like I told Raven before, his request will be considered based on what we feel he brings to the forum. Unlike our new citizens, Raven brings a lot of history with him, and we have to consider that too. A decision will be made within 24 hours.
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