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Things won't go well between Cloud and Tifa; Premises
Topic Started: 1 Jun 2014 - 09:14 (55 Views)
Splash
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Quote by Nomura:
[Case of Tifa]


Quote:
 
First off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same.


What exactly is a premise?

I’ve read material where this statement has been gleefully interpreted as evident confirmation from the director himself that Cloud and Tifa’s relationship will be made void. Or that it will fail. Or that “things will not go well” predates that they aren’t together or will break up for that reason. Or that they just plain suck together.

Nomura is the director. He is God of FF7 Universe. If he wanted to make an indisputable statement “Tifa and Cloud are not together” or “Tifa and Cloud will not be together romantically” he could have done so a decade ago. Note he himself hasn’t made an indisputable statement that they are together romantically either. Therefore it piqued my curiosity when he emphasized that there is a premise that things won’t go well. Basically it alerted me to the 1) ambiguity and 2) inconsequential nature of that statement.


I’d like to clarify what a premise is, think of it as philosophy 101 lesson on a shipping forum. Cos I’m weird like that.

-A premise is not an argument.
-A premise is not an accusation.
-A premise is not a fact.
-A premise is not a conclusion.
-A premise can be true or false.

Here are some examples of a premise:

-The moon is made of cheese.
-No one will comment on this boring essay.
-Once we were all toddlers.
-Cloud is Cloud.
-Things won’t go well with Cloud and Tifa.
-Meteor will destroy Gaia tomorrow.
-Aerith will help save Gaia tomorrow.

So by itself a premise is a single statement, a claim that can be either true or false. It doesn’t have to mean anything, or imply anything unless you want it to by using it in formulation of an argument.

A premise can be true or false.

E.g. ‘The moon is made of cheese’ is a false premise.

‘Once we were all toddlers’ is a true premise.

But we can only know a premise is factually true if it has already occurred e.g. we have already been toddlers, or if it is confirmed empirically in the present e.g. the moon is made of rock. We don’t know whether something that is going to happen in the future is true before it has happened!

E.g. “Meteor will destroy Gaia tomorrow” is highly likely in the game. But sequential events ended up proving this premise false because Aerith did summon Holy and deter the planet’s end. Also someone may or may not comment on this banal essay. But I won’t know if it’s true or false until I see the comments! Hence;

Premise 1: ‘Things won’t go well with Cloud and Tifa’.

It’s a premise made in future context so we don’t know whether it is true or false until events prove it.

So long as this premise is made in future tense it’s safe to postulate that things may also go well with Cloud and Tifa.

Premise 2: ‘This might be the same even without Geostigma or Sephiroth.’

Okay, there’s another premise! The ambiguity is even more distinct here with the use of the word ‘might’. If it’s possible that things might be intrinsically bad between them, it’s also possible things mightn't be intrinsically bad between them.

The premise doesn’t blatantly condemn Cloud and Tifa’s relationship. It’s use of ‘might’ in it does emphasize its ambiguity and uncertainty. So my first point is out of the way.

Now to move on into inconsequentiality:

I don’t know why some people freak at the possibility that Premise 1 could be true. It’s not necessarily bad if it’s true. Things weren’t sunshine and rainbows in Advent Children. There’s no need to despair if it’s correct.

This is because to actually disprove Cloud and Tifa’s romantic bond or relationship status using that statement requires much more material than just that! You need to formulate a logical argument with at least two premises leading to a relevant conclusion. According to great Aristotle, even two relevant premises are sufficient to form a coherent argument with a valid conclusion.

Let’s form a hypothetical argument that could be validly used to disprove Cloud and Tifa using our bitter statements. As a clue in, it requires much more proof and certainly many more than two premises.

Argument against Cloud and Tifa because things won’t go well :

P1: If things do not go well between two people then they cannot be a romantic couple.
P2: A couple who isn’t always ‘going well’ when circumstances are bad is a lousy couple.
P3: If a couple experiences difficulties even without world crises or bad outside circumstances then they are a lousy couple.
P4: Lousy couples aren’t in a romantic relationship.
P5: Lousy couples will break up.
P6: Things won’t go well with Cloud and Tifa.
P7: This might be the same even without Geostigma or Sephiroth.
P8: Tifa and Cloud make a lousy couple.

Conclusion
Therefore: Cloud and Tifa cannot be in a romantic relationship or last in one.

Could someone make that argument? Of course! Nothing is stopping anyone. There are two components to a Good argument:

1)It has to be valid – meaning the conclusion logically follows from the premises.
2)It has to be sound – meaning all the premises must be true.

Remember how I said this argument could be valid? Well the conclusion is relevant and follows from the premises so it is valid! But is it sound? We already know that the truth of the original two premises is uncertain based on future context.

It will be very difficult to prove the truth of the other premises that are necessary within this argument to logically deduce that Cloud and Tifa are not in a romantic relationship. Sure one can try. I can imagine people in relationships becoming irate if others tried to prove that their relationship is lousy and nonexistent because things do not go well in it sometimes. So one can most definitely make this argument but it will be a Bad argument.

But that’s not the scope of my essay. Basically the second point is that a mere premise indicating that there are difficulties between Cloud and Tifa really means nothing. It has no consequence or bearing to current state of affairs. That’s why I really think it is so inconsequential to the Cloud and Tifa ship that Nomura made this premise. It doesn't disprove it, it doesn't prove it, it's just unimportant really.

Just in case someone decides that quote was a fan translation and not future tense ie) “The correct interpretation is things are not (present tense) going well between Cloud and Tifa” my original stance still prevails. The ambiguity of the problems ‘might’ being there without Geostigma etc still holds. The premise that a couple has problems is still inconsequential to the nature of their relationship and future success.

And now that you know what a premise is I shall leave some with you to interpret as you will :P

-There’s a premise that you will not always be giddy and happy in your relationship.
-There’s a premise that couples fight sometimes.
-There’s a premise that other people could help you work it out.
-There’s a premise that couples will have some incompatibilities.
-There’s a premise that you will never fully understand the complexities of someone else’s heart.

Are all those relationships doomed too? :kuraudo: :teef:

<3 Splash.
Edited by Splash, 3 Jun 2014 - 00:29.
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