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| Stages of Cloti love | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 15 Dec 2013 - 20:57 (95 Views) | |
| Danseru-kun | 15 Dec 2013 - 20:57 Post #1 |
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Advanced Member
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I saw my name mentioned again in some write-up and for the benefit of the doubt I will assume some Clotis are still not convinced that Cloud loves Tifa romantically. Now like I've said like a dozen times already, Cloud's love for Tifa will not reduce whataver feeling Cloud has for Aerith and vice versa. This article will present the evidences showing that Cloud and Tifa love each other romantically for many years in different shades. Good morning Pixiv ID: 13438301 Artist: au Longest Cloti article that I've written. ![]() I. Proof of love You see I have written a dozen essays on Cloud and Tifa's relationship and I've also written a summary about them. There are things between Cloud and Tifa that cannot absolutely prove they love each other, but provides a solid ground on their relationship. These are the foundations of a romantic love- friendship, dedication, selflessness, understanding of each other. ![]() Pixiv ID: 17976082 Artist: [url="\http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=2571661]デラコ[/URL] Love composed of passion only is empty. It's weak, fleeting and physical. I would argue that Cloti is made by more building blocks. Now I will list some facts both the narrative and the official materials present. For the proof of these statements I will be providing links, as for the general reference it could be found here.
(link)
II. Proof of romance Now this section will be a bit more complicated. I will arrange the arguments according to their chronology in the game. When they were kids, Cloud liked Tifa. [url="http://danseru-kun.tumblr.com/post/39518135405/another-new-cloti-quote"]This love is described as romantic but faint and in it's early stages. [/URL]Because of this love, Cloud wanted to join Soldier to get her to notice him. ![]() 給水塔での約束 Pixiv ID: 195918 Artist: まこ
That is our first proof that Cloud definitely loved Tifa romantically, at least from his earliest childhood until he's 14 years old.
At the point where the promise was made Tifa was as immature as Cloud as she's 13 years old. However she took interest on him when he agreed to promise her that he would always be there to rescue her, and thought of him as her knight in shining armor. Between Cloud and Tifa at this point, I would use the word "crush" or infatuation in describing their affections. Crushes, as many of us know about is not a deep or mature form of love. It can be strong but if it doesn't grow it won't last long. There is no single way to define crushes but you certainly think about that person very much, you have fantasies on that person and you want him/her to notice you even barely know him/her. Using that common description, Cloud and Tifa definitely had a mutual crush on each other. Fast-forward two years later, Cloud revisits Nibelheim as a lowly Shinra grunt. Because of his shame of not being able to be Soldier, he covered his face. This time Tifa is waiting for him and excited to meet him. If Cloud has no interest on Tifa here, he wouldn't be that embarrassed. Outside the reactor, Cloud protected Tifa from monsters but he was badly hurt and Tifa has to escort him back to town. Cloud felt down after this and mentioned that "if only he was Soldier. Zack was able to "sense some issues." Cloud really takes his promise to Tifa seriously and his desire to protect her didn't change. His profile has a small section about his promise to Tifa and it says that if he dies in Before Crisis he will cry out how he wasn't able to keep it. ![]() Tifa's definitely interest at him at this point. Here are some text message Tifa gave to Zack in CC:
When Sephiroth went mad and slaughtered people, Cloud followed him to the reactor. Cloud saw Tifa hurt on the ground, caressed her face and carried her to a safer spot. He then charged at Sephiroth angrily ![]() Cloud" "Mom... Tifa... my town... give it back..." source deleted Cloud finds his true strength and defeats Sephiroth. Notice how Tifa is mentioned along with his mom, and it's fair to say a tragedy doesn't make him "unlove" Tifa. So bottomline, Cloud and Tifa still has romantic feelings for each other when they were 16 and 15 respectively. It may still be not mature, but note that this almost the same as Zidane/Garnet's and Squall/Rinoa's and Tidus/Yuna's and Zack/Aerith's ages. The tragedy affected both of them in many ways, Cloud gets messed up pretty badly and Tifa ceased being the dreamy damsel. Then Cloud was comatose for five years and fast forward to Midgar when they meet again. Cloud has a different personality. Tifa has changed as well, she doesn't see Cloud as her ideal knight in shining armor, but now someone who can help Avalanche and someone she should observe because of his bizarre behavior. The reason why Tifa wanted Cloud to stay in Avalanche is for his own well-being, she knows there's something wrong. Now five years is long for Tifa and things might have changed for Cloud too (even when he was asleep.) It's given that Tifa romantically likes Cloud at this point.
![]() Note that 好意 "koui" is a euphemism for love and this was used between Cecil/Rosa, Celes/Locke and Squall/Rinoa. My Japanese friend translate it before as “fancied.”
So at this point Tifa's love for Cloud is definitely romantic. Note that it's implied that the neighborhood around the bar gossips about Cloud and Tifa. And Johnny, a guy who was crushing on Tifa gave up because of Cloud's presence. How about Cloud's feelings then?
So at 21 years old, Cloud is at least still interested at Tifa but he was oblivious of her feelings for him. Note that I listed earlier that when he fell down from the plate into Aerith's church, Tifa is the one he wants to return to, not really Avalanche. He wavered between Aerith and Tifa, there was competition between them but he's interested in both so he "wavered." But then Aerith died. I will not say her death will end whatever romantic feelings Cloud possibly held for her but after her death Cloud's illusion begins to shatter. He had a mental breakdown realizing he's not the "real Cloud" and fell into the Lifestream. ![]() 早く元気になってね Pixiv ID: 4925812 Artist: isaki Tifa found him washed ashore to Mideel, unresponsive, and nursed him. I can say Tifa's devotion to him despite him being mentally incapable of given any response and her willingness to stay with him even in danger shows her love has grown from crush to love. Then they fell back to the Lifestream where several things unfolded:
Here, young Cloud tells Tifa that the older Cloud will be happy if he hears that Tifa finally took notice of him. Young Cloud merges will all the "Clouds" and he regains his true self.
Tifa learns that Cloud fancied him when they were young and Cloud learns that Tifa becomes interested at him. Just as Cloud is oblivious to Tifa's feelings, Tifa learns that she was oblivious of Cloud's feelings too. ![]() (unknown artist, deleted site) The two "meet again" but Cloud now is his real self. If you think about it, Cloud was asleep for five years and so when he find his real self we can say this is pretty much the 16 year old Cloud that is in love with Tifa, freed from his Zack!Cloud illusion, now intersecting with the 21 year old Cloud who had endured weeks of challenges and grief. It is argued that in the lifestream they learned their past feelings and feelings on their past feelings, but the next step of their romance tells us more. Before the final battle Cloud tells his party to go to their loved ones and find their reason to fight. Cloud and Tifa, having nowhere to go, spend the night together and we get a affectionate dialogue in the High Affection scene. They talk how they heard one another calling in the Lifestream and believing in themselves then:
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(from http://haruno0yuki.web.fc2.com/vivi/index.html ) Now a short discussion on this part, there arguments saying that because this scene has two versions the romance isn't definite but evidences prove that the explicitly romantic version, the High Affection version, is canon.
Moreover, the Japanese text itself is romantic. The phrase "communicated feelings" in Cloud and Tifa's 10th AU profiles と想いを通わせる is romantic with sexual implications as it denotes feelings conveyed without the use of words, which refers to Tifa's line "Words aren't the only way..." Also, the the variations of the phrase used in describing the HW scene objectively disregarding versions are precisely the same words used to describe the romantic moments between Locke/Celes, Tidus/Yuna, Steiner/Beatrix and Squall/Rinoa. ![]() Maybe one of the biggest nail in the issue is the fact that Cloud and Tifa's moment under the Highwind is featured in the the FF 20th AU "[url="http://thelifestream.net/lifestream-projects/translations/6162/translations-from-the-ff-20th-anniversary-ultimania-for-the-one-i-love/"]For The One I Love[/URL]" page (above) listing displays of romantic affection present in canon couples I just listed above. Even if the HW scene is a variable scene with two versions, the page never mentioned the deviation while the Gold Saucer date didn't specify a date and mentioned that the result depends on the player, unlike the explicit favor to the the HAHW scene. ![]()
[url="http://thelifestream.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/ff7love.jpg"] [/URL]
There are arguments that this page does not canonize the HAHW scene because the page only features memorable lines. It doesn't need to because the evidence for the HAHW scene is adequate. [url="http://danseru-kun.tumblr.com/post/39374788687/new-ultimania-cloti-information-cloud-favors-tifa"]What's striking to this quote that it confirms that Cloud and Tifa had held "koui" or "favor" for one another for many years, and this affirms all the romantic subtext between them. [/URL] At what is described as a fateful, special night a flood of feelings were conveyed between them. These feelings are mutual and for each other, and was brought by the favor they had for many years. Cloud and Tifa's affection for each other endured the years and becomes passionate at the night before the final battle. Now we go to the events after the game. Case of Tifa is a short story detailing Cloud and Tifa's relationship between the end of FFVII and Advent Children. At the early portion of the story, there is this conversation. 夕暮れPixiv ID: 21486895 Member: [url="http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=1773956"]悠[/URL] (Duneart)
Cloud says "I have you," then Tifa goes to tell him she's always there for him. Cloud then says it's different. The two of them has always been friends, then this dialogue does indicate a change in their relationship. Moreover, the two of them are entrusted to take care of Marlene, then later Denzel. Cloud and Tifa formed their own family. Nojima talked about their relationship in the context of love, marriage and family. ![]() おはよ Pixiv ID: 7099709 Artist: たーな The following dialogue I will post even implies that Cloud and Tifa are sleeping together. Tifa was close enough to Cloud to wait for him to sleep and wait until morning, or unless she goes into his room ala Paranormal style. I will not consider this a solid proof of sleeping together, but I believe so that this is the case.
However, Case of Tifa was written using the premise that at first, things won't go well between Cloud and Tifa. Cloud left because of issues which he eventually resolved in Advent Children. Problems arose between them because of their own personal demons. Now there are arguments saying that at Case of Tifa they don't seem like romantic pair because they weren't communicating their feelings properly, and that because Tifa has insecurities. However some people I've talked to who are engaged in long term relationships that include cohabitation tells that Case of Tifa shows the realism between couples living together. So in this case it's fair to say that only subjectively Cloud and Tifa are not a couple at this point and most arguments against their relationship are opinions at most. There are even arguments saying Tifa asking Cloud if he loves her proves she doesn't know his feelings, but this kind of reasoning invalidates real life relationships and is contradicted by the quote saying Tifa knows Cloud all too well. Then we go to the final stage, Advent Children. The movie is not romantic and the relationship between Cloud and Tifa is not the focus of the story.There are cute moments now and then but ultimately this is Cloud forgiving himself and finding his Promised Land. And Cloud's happiness is wonderfully described here: ![]() (
Some argues that passion faded between Cloud and Tifa in this time period, but I can somehow agree. I think all the traumas and everything that has happened choked out the possibility of a honeymoon period. But nonetheless their love is strong and I think it shows in the form of their commitment in taking care of their adopted children. Many married couples have a relationship like this. Because of Cloud and Tifa's lack of supposedly "obvious" signs of romance, some people interpret Tifa as a good friend to Cloud that is now family but not a lover. However, Reunion Files describes Tifa's character. ![]() artist: sumi*zumi
If the Japanese text is to be examined, Tifa here is like a mother, but sweetheart and ally in battle are not referred as "like." Tifa is objectively a close ally in battle, and Tifa here is being describe as a sweetheart. The word used koibito (恋人) is defined by dictionaries as “girlfriend/lover/sweeheart.” But koibito is more complicated than that. Koibito can be subjective, and in certain contexts means “person you love/beloved.” Cloud is described as Aerith’s koibito in the lifestream and there is debate if this means “boyfriend” or “beloved.” One thing fact is that koibito is not a person who loves without being loved back but it can be a person who is loved but does not love back. This means, Tifa, described as a koibito objectively in a guidebook means that she’s the beloved and using a certain standard, someone’s girlfriend. There are those who argue that Tifa is simply koibito to Johnny and Rude, two men who have a crush on her, but this cannot be proven for several reasons. First is that the Reunion Files quote refers to Advent Children, and Johnny didn’t even appear or gets mentioned in the movie. Rude interacted with Tifa at least, but never in the movie nor in the games had the two speak to each other. Also, the two men’s feelings are merely crush and koibito is not the appropriate word for what they feel about Tifa. Koibito in its most formal and objective sense denotes a deep, mutual love that lasts a lifetime. Sure the person who considers Tifa his koibito is not explicitly mentioned here, but who had loved Tifa since childhood? Who did Tifa share memories and feelings in the Lifestream? Who did Tifa spend the night with in the Highwind where they realized mutual romantic feelings for each other? Who is the one who said they now different from the way they are before? ![]() おはよ。 Pixiv ID: 20425275 Member: co-ro Adding all the evidences together reasonably, logically and definitely the man who loves Tifa Lockhart is none other than Cloud Strife.They loved each other for years and it has endured the destruction of their hometown, memory loss and bizarre identity crisis, a love triangle, the loss of Aerith, mind screw, depression, guilt, insecurities, domestic problems, personal insecurities, parenting and a terminal disease. They have gone through the worst and what can possibly make things any worse for Cloud and Tifa? Despite all this from a childhood crush the love becomes of devotion, turned to passion, and grew into commitment. I'm quite sure things can only go better between them. Edited by Danseru-kun, 15 Dec 2013 - 20:58.
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| Six | 16 Dec 2013 - 08:42 Post #2 |
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p r o m i s e
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Not only do you seem to have a knack for writing, I absolutely enjoyed my read through of this essay. Thank you very much for posting it. =] |
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| Danseru-kun | 16 Dec 2013 - 09:12 Post #3 |
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Advanced Member
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^^^ ooh thank you, I have more of these that I'll be posting.
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夕暮れ







6:46 PM Jul 10