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Directive for Establishing the Census, Banning Multiples and Defining Activity; aka "Regulating Activity Directive"
Topic Started: May 12 2013, 05:06 AM (646 Views)
Deckard Christopher
I will cast an Abstain vote. I don't really know what to think about this.
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Deckard Christopher
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Likako A. Nehio
Fucking hell, Tsru.
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Ironicness
....can't vote, but proclaiming my support.

Just in case anyone else walks in, the voting period just ended. /nottheSpeaker
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Likako A. Nehio
I urge the Speaker to return this proposal to Debate stage as it is clear by Tsruhkwah's last post that there is still some issues with this bill. I know the LRO doesn't address this specifically, so the decision is up to you Speaker.
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Deckard Christopher
Without Mr. Nehio's request, this bill will have been defeated. But clearly there is still much to figure out regarding this bill. I am hereby accepting Mr. Nehio's request and will be returning this bill to Debate. The Second Debate stage will begin as of the timing of this post, and I will allow you all enough time to hammer your disagreements out. If you wish to move this back to voting, you can make a motion to move to full vote. I will eventually modify the League Rules of Order to reflect a change similar to this.

Feel free to beat the crap out of one another now.
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Tsruhkwah
Tsruhkwah
 
Likako A. Nehio
May 14 2013, 08:16 PM
Why the sudden change, Tsru?
As far as I'm aware my views haven't changed. I was always in favour of removing New Sorvun masking from inactive forum users, but kicking people from the region is something we've never done before and I think it's a rather large and drastic step.
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Ironicness
What's so drastic about it? There are several safeguards in place to protect deservingly non-eject users, and it's not like we're banning them, hmmm?
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Likako A. Nehio
For the Census to be effective, we need to be able to do this, and it is not like they can't come back. They have opportunities to make sure they don't get ejected wrongly, like if they happen to be out of town or something during the Census period they can submit their forms early.
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Deckard Christopher
I'm curious as to the reason why ejecting nations not reporting in the Census helps us in the long run? Ejecting them, inactive or not, can be problematic. You say they can always return, and that maybe true, but how do you think they'd feel about us ejecting them? What if they had real-life issues they couldn't overcome? You bring up several fail-safes that are terribly flawed, my friend. I'm afraid, that despite the vast majority of this bill being acceptable to me, this one part leads me to want to vote Nay on the next voting phase. There must be some middle ground we can stake out here.
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Tsruhkwah
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What's so drastic about it? There are several safeguards in place to protect deservingly non-eject users, and it's not like we're banning them, hmmm?
It is drastic because none of them deserve to be ejected. This bill makes being a non-participant in the goings-on of the region a crime, and prescribes mass punishment for those who dare to remain silent.
Likako
 
For the Census to be effective, we need to be able to do this, and it is not like they can't come back.
Like Deckard, I'm also intrigued as to why we need to kick half the region to have an effective census, we've never had to in the past.
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Ironicness
Just a thought here.... sleeper agents and their like? Not necessarily a danger but it very well could be, which ejecting inactive nations could solve.

How are we helped as a region by enclosing a nation that has no value? Perhaps someone'd logged in every now and then and no longer actually functions in the region. It seems to be in our benefit to have the purest assortment of nations as possible.
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Likako A. Nehio
Tsru, first of all, I had a much wider safety net in the original draft to which you chipped away because it was too lenient.

Second, what point is for them to be in our region if they make no contributions?
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Tsruhkwah
Ironicness
 
Just a thought here.... sleeper agents and their like? Not necessarily a danger but it very well could be, which ejecting inactive nations could solve.
This sounds like guilty until proven innocent to me.
Ironicness
 
How are we helped as a region by enclosing a nation that has no value? Perhaps someone'd logged in every now and then and no longer actually functions in the region. It seems to be in our benefit to have the purest assortment of nations as possible.
I can concede that nations who don't contribute aren't helping, but how would it be in our benefit to kick them? When we eventually start to recruit I don't think we'll be helped by having a tiny region and mass-kickings in our regional happenings.
Likako
 
Tsru, first of all, I had a much wider safety net in the original draft to which you chipped away because it was too lenient.
If you take into account that I wouldn't have had regional ejections, which I stated in that post, then your time limits and "strikes" for the census were over-generous.
Likako
 
Second, what point is for them to be in our region if they make no contributions?
Some people don't like to be involved with regional politics or role-playing, they just want to answer their national issues in peace, some of these people have chosen to make New Sorvun their home and I don't see why we should turn them away. If Caprecia and Nysa have the right to opt-out of Commonwealth politics because they have no interest, and I have the right to opt-out of role-playing for similar reasons, why shouldn't residents of New Sorvun also have that right?

There was a time in this region when ejection was considered a punishment only for the most serious of crimes. I don't understand when or why opinions hardened to the point where now anyone unknown is a fair target.
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Ironicness
I'm going to wait for Likako to answer these, cuz I'm at this point willing to be convinced by anyone.
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Likako A. Nehio
Being an a bloated region that is barely active is less appealing then a small region with nearly everyone is active. Sending in a TG for the Census is all that is necessary to remain in the region, so far they've listened to others for example, I sent a tg a few months ago to each WA that wasn't endorsing the delegate, and many of those were the same "just answer issues" nations.

How about this? We'll leave the kicking up to the discretion of the delegate?
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