| Welcome to Conversations. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Article 50 Week: When Britain Officially Bid "Adieu" To Europe | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 27 2017, 02:51 PM (314 Views) | |
| Webster | Mar 27 2017, 02:51 PM Post #1 |
|
Wasatch Storyteller & Resident Forum Curmudgeon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
(The Guardian) EU's chief Brexit negotiator warns of 'distinct possibility' UK will leave with no deal --This is the week that will see Theresa May triggering article 50, starting the purportedly irreversible process that will see Britain sliding down the slipway and leaving the EU after two years. Today May is in Scotland, giving a speech touching on this and holding what promises to be a very awkward meeting with Scotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon, who has emerged her most threatening UK opponent over Brexit. Two other opposition forces, Labour and Ukip, are also setting out their conditions for Brexit. Across the channel the main obstacle to UK Brexit success may turn out to be Michel Barnier, the European commission’s lead negotiator on this issue. He has written an article for today’s Financial Times (paywall) politely raising threats and conditions and it is well worth reading. Here are the main points. --Barnier says there is a “distinct possibility” that the UK and the EU will fail to strike a deal. That would have “severe consequences”, he says. It goes without saying that a no-deal scenario, while a distinct possibility, would have severe consequences for our people and our economies. It would undoubtedly leave the UK worse off. Severe disruption to air transport and long queues at the Channel port of Dover are just some of the many examples of the negative consequences of failing to reach a deal. Others include the disruption of supply chains, including the suspension of the delivery of nuclear material to the UK. --He says the UK will have to reach an early agreement about paying money an exit fee to the EU as it leaves for the talks to succeed. He does not set out how much he expects the UK to pay, although it has been repeatedly reported that it will demand about €60bn (£50bn). He says: Beneficiaries of programmes financed by the European budget will need to know if they can continue relying on our support. There is no price to pay to leave the EU but we must settle our accounts. The 27 member states will honour their commitments and we expect the UK to do the same — because it is the mutually responsible way to act. Barnier cites this as one of three issues that need to be addressed early in the negotiations. The other two are guaranteeing the rights of EU nationals in the UK and Britons living in other EU states, and not undermining peace in Northern Ireland. He goes on: If we cannot resolve these three significant uncertainties at an early stage, we run the risk of failure. Putting things in the right order maximises the chances of reaching an agreement. --He reaffirms his desire to negotiate the terms of the UK’s exit from the EU before negotiating a future trade deal. The British government wants to negotiate both in parallel. But Barnier says: This means agreeing on the orderly withdrawal of the UK before negotiating any future trade deal. The sooner we agree on these principles, the more time we will have to discuss our future partnership. --He says the EU will be “fair yet firm” in the talks in defending the interests of its 27 members states. |
![]() |
|
| Replies: | |
|---|---|
| Webster | Mar 29 2017, 02:18 PM Post #76 |
|
Wasatch Storyteller & Resident Forum Curmudgeon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
|
![]() |
|
| Webster | Mar 29 2017, 02:21 PM Post #77 |
|
Wasatch Storyteller & Resident Forum Curmudgeon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
![]() (The Guardian) The letter is out. Here is the first page. -Read more: https://www.scribd.com/document/343396953/PM-Letter-to-EU-Council-President#from_embed |
![]() |
|
| Webster | Mar 29 2017, 02:22 PM Post #78 |
|
Wasatch Storyteller & Resident Forum Curmudgeon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
(The Guardian) Donald Tusk gives his reaction to the article 50 letter --Donald Tusk is now speaking. He says he has received a six-page letter to start the negotiations on Britain leaving the EU. There is no reason to pretend this is a happy day in Brussels or in London, he says. Most Europeans, including almost half of all British voters, wish to stay together and not drift apart. Tusk says he cannot say he is happy today, but there is “something positive about Brexit – Brexit has made us more determined and more united than before”. He says the bloc will also remain determined and united in the future, “during the difficult negotiations ahead”. He says he has a “strong mandate to protect the interests of the 27”. In essence, this is about damage control, he says: “There is nothing to win … Our goal is clear – to minimise the cost for EU citizens, businesses and member states.” For the time being, he concludes, nothing has changed: until the UK leaves, EU law will continue to apply, including in the UK. Tusk concludes by saying an official statement from the EU council will soon be released, and he will share negotiating guidelines with the capitals on Friday. “What can I add?” he asks. ““We already miss you.” |
![]() |
|
| Webster | Mar 29 2017, 02:27 PM Post #79 |
|
Wasatch Storyteller & Resident Forum Curmudgeon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
(The Guardian) European council's initial response to article 50 letter --Here is the full text of the European council’s initial response to the article 50 letter. And here is an excerpt. We regret that the United Kingdom will leave the European Union, but we are ready for the process that we now will have to follow. For the European Union, the first step will now be the adoption of guidelines for the negotiations by the European council. These guidelines will set out the overall positions and principles in light of which the union, represented by the European commission, will negotiate with the United Kingdom. In these negotiations the union will act as one and preserve its interests. Our first priority will be to minimise the uncertainty caused by the decision of the United Kingdom for our citizens, businesses and member states. Therefore, we will start by focusing on all key arrangements for an orderly withdrawal. We will approach these talks constructively and strive to find an agreement. In the future, we hope to have the United Kingdom as a close partner. -Read more: http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2017/03/29-euco-50-statement-uk-notification/ |
![]() |
|
| Webster | Mar 29 2017, 02:27 PM Post #80 |
|
Wasatch Storyteller & Resident Forum Curmudgeon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
|
![]() |
|
| Webster | Mar 29 2017, 02:28 PM Post #81 |
|
Wasatch Storyteller & Resident Forum Curmudgeon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
(The Guardian) This is what Ed Miliband, the former Labour leader, told MPs during May’s statement. The prime minister is right to say in her statement that this deal, the eventual deal we get, must work for the 48% as well as the 52%, because whether we were remainers or leavers, we will live in the same country together after Brexit. But can I emphasise to her that national unity must be earned and not just asserted, and it must be shown in deeds and not just in words, and we are a long, long way away from it. As she reflects on the last eight months, can she say what she thinks she needs to do differently in the next 24 months to achieve that national unity, which frankly eludes us at the moment. |
![]() |
|
| Webster | Mar 29 2017, 02:29 PM Post #82 |
|
Wasatch Storyteller & Resident Forum Curmudgeon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
(The Guardian) Jennifer Rankin in Brussels highlights Donald Tusk’s vow that the EU will remain “determined and united” as it embarks on the two-year Brexit divorce. Making clear his personal regret that British voters had narrowly chosen to leave the bloc, the European council president said Brexit could have a positive aspect because the 27 remaining member states were more united than ever: I will not pretend that I am happy for today. But paradoxically there is something positive in Brexit. Brexit has made us, the community of 27, more determined and more united than before. Brexit was about damage control, he said, and minimising the costs for EU citizens, business and member states. Tusk will chair a summit of 27 EU leaders on 29 April with the aim of agreeing the bloc’s negotiating guidelines – a six- to ten-page statement of political principles to guide the EU through the negotiations that will be circulated on Friday. He also stressed that EU law would “continue to apply in the UK” until the day it leaves the bloc, possibly a riposte to earlier reported attempts by London - now abandoned - to stop EU citizens moving to the UK in the two years before Brexit. |
![]() |
|
| Webster | Mar 29 2017, 02:31 PM Post #83 |
|
Wasatch Storyteller & Resident Forum Curmudgeon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
(The Guardian) The Irish government has responded to the formal triggering of article 50, writes Henry McDonald in Dublin. Dublin says it has been clear “from the start that the UK’s departure from the union will have significant economic, political and social implications for Ireland” and that it has been working to analyse its main of concern and develop negotiating priorities: These are to minimise the impact on our trade and the economy; to protect the Northern Ireland peace process, including through maintaining an open border; to continue the Common Travel Area with the UK; and to work for a positive future for the European Union. The statement says Ireland’s government noted that its concerns, “including in relation to the Good Friday agreement”, had been acknowledged and says a consolidated paper on Ireland’s priorities will be published before the EU summit on 29 April. |
![]() |
|
| Webster | Mar 29 2017, 02:35 PM Post #84 |
|
Wasatch Storyteller & Resident Forum Curmudgeon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
(The Guardian) The Welsh first minister, Carwyn Jones, has expressed concern that Brexit may trigger an increase in English nationalism, reports Steven Morris in Cardiff. Jones was among senior Labour figures including the Scottish Labour leader, Kezia Dugdale, and former British prime minister Gordon Brown, meeting in the Welsh capital to discuss constitutional reform in a post-Brexit UK. Speaking to an audience at Cardiff University, he said: My greatest fear is that Brexit will lead to a rise in English nationalism. I have no problem with people expressing their identity. I am proud to be Welsh ... [But] how do you ensure the people of England feel part of this debate? It’s not just about Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. England has a very strong, proud regional identity. That’s the issue that gets forgotten about. Brown said he believed Brexit would force the country to face up to “the vast structural inequalities in income, wealth and power” between the regions and nations of the UK: We’ve got to start re-thinking the British constitution in a way that gives more power to the nations and regions of the United Kingdom. That demands we think imaginatively not just about what powers come to the Welsh assembly and Scottish parliament but also what happens within the regions of England. Dugdale said the United Kingdom was “under a great deal of threat.” She added: “It’s not the union of our four nations that is inherently unfair or unjust, it is the actions of the powerful within it.” The three are among Labour leaders and grandees who have come together in a “Devolution Taskforce” charged with setting out the party’s vision for the future shape of the UK constitution. Its proposals will form the basis of a Labour-led Constitutional Convention to look at a federal framework of nations and regions. |
![]() |
|
| Webster | Mar 29 2017, 02:36 PM Post #85 |
|
Wasatch Storyteller & Resident Forum Curmudgeon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
(The Guardian) Brexit policy editor Dan Roberts has been filleting the article 50 letter and offers this takeaway from the six-page missive: Beneath the warm words are a number of veiled threats that point the way to a tempestuous start to the negotiations. As expected, the first is an insistence that Europe talks about future trade with Britain at the same time as the terms of the divorce settlement. But it is the reasons May gives for the necessity of this that could really cause some spluttering over the espresso. By making repeated links to Britain’s contribution to European security, she appears to be suggesting she would be prepared to withdraw military and intelligence co-operation if she cannot get the trade deal she wants. So much for Nato solidarity. -Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2017/mar/29/theresa-may-article-50-letter-annotated |
![]() |
|
| Webster | Mar 29 2017, 02:38 PM Post #86 |
|
Wasatch Storyteller & Resident Forum Curmudgeon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
(The Guardian) Theresa May’s call for unity may not be something that will be followed closely by her cabinet. After Philip Hammond said the government knew it could not have its cake and eat it during the negotiations (in comments seen as a dig at Boris Johnson), a Whitehall source hit back. “We shouldn’t be downbeat today and we can absolutely have the best deal,” they said, adding that the chancellor might “change his mind by next week on cake, anyway.” The Commons public gallery was packed with people listening to Theresa May’s statement, with many more milling around in parliament’s central lobby. As former cabinet minister Iain Duncan Smith left the lobby, a beaming man approached him and clasped his hand with both of his. “Thank you sir, thanks for Brexit,” he said. |
![]() |
|
| Webster | Mar 29 2017, 02:40 PM Post #87 |
|
Wasatch Storyteller & Resident Forum Curmudgeon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
(The Guardian) Farron accuses May of issuing 'blatant threat' to EU over security in article 50 letter --Tim Farron, the Lib Dem leader, has interpreted the article 50 letter (see 2.07pm) as a “blatant threat” to the EU to withdraw security cooperation if the UK does not get a good trade deal. In a statement he said: It is shameful that Theresa May has threatened to withdraw security co-operation from our closest neighbours and allies. With growing terrorist threats from around the world, it is imperative that we work together with European allies for our mutual security. She is prepared to put the safety of British and European citizens on the line just so she can deliver her hard Brexit. Security is too important to be used as a bargaining chip and this will backfire in any negotiations, which rather than building up alliances will leave Britain even more isolated. The Lib Dems point out that the word “security” is mentioned 11 times in the letter, and “trade” just six times. Farron also criticised what the letter had to say on trade. He said: Theresa May admits that we will lose influence over the very rules by which British firms exporting to our largest market will have to abide by. So much for taking back control. The Conservative party used to be the party of business, but by going for this reckless hard Brexit she has thrown British business into a state of uncertainty and powerlessness. |
![]() |
|
| Webster | Mar 29 2017, 02:44 PM Post #88 |
|
Wasatch Storyteller & Resident Forum Curmudgeon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
--Hollande says Brexit will be 'douloureux' - in English, it's going to hurt (Laura Kuenssberg, BBC News - 29 March 2017) |
![]() |
|
| Webster | Mar 29 2017, 02:45 PM Post #89 |
|
Wasatch Storyteller & Resident Forum Curmudgeon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
(The Guardian) In the Commons Theresa May said Britain could cope if it had to leave the EU without a deal. But she stressed that was not what she wanted. She was responding to a question from Crispin Blunt, the Conservative chair of the Commons foreign affairs committee. She said: We are trying to approach this in a realistic and pragmatic way. You are absolutely right, of course government will be working across all departments to ensure that we have preparations in place whatever the outcome will be. But as I made clear in my letter to [Donald] Tusk, that while both the European Union and the UK could cope if there was no agreement, that would not be the ideal situation, it is not what we will be working for and we should be actively working to get the right and proper deal for both sides. |
![]() |
|
| Webster | Mar 29 2017, 02:47 PM Post #90 |
|
Wasatch Storyteller & Resident Forum Curmudgeon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
(The Guardian) Several things have been said or reported today that may be unsettling to the most hardline anti-Europeans in the Conservative party. The Financial Times has reported that the government may allow the European court of justice to continue to play some sort of role after Brexit, perhaps policing a transitional deal. On the Today programme Philip Hammond hinted that the government will not go into the Brexit talks arguing that the UK will owe nothing when it leaves, and he seemed to confirm that the government has given up plans to use today as the cut-off point for EU nationals keeping their rights after Brexit. And Theresa May and Hammond have ditched some of the gung-ho leave rhetoric. They are not pretending that Brexit will lead to some “have cake and eat it” nirvana, and they have backed away from “no deal is better than a bad deal” threat-mongering which impresses MPs who believe David Cameron’s negotiation failed because he was not prepared to walk away. (Remember “plan B”, turning the UK into a low-regulation tax haven if the EU does not offer a good trade deal? There has been no mention of that at all today.) But in the Commons there is no evidence that any of the hardcore Conservative Brexiteers are worried. Here are some of their comments. From Owen Paterson, the former environment secretary: Can I thank and congratulate you for resolutely sticking to your promise to the British people to trigger article 50 before the end of March. There will be celebrations all around the country, nowhere more so than in our remote coastal communities where health and wealth of our fishing grounds has been trashed by the Common fisheries policy. From Sir Bill Cash: Can you reaffirm that at the very heart of this letter lies the democratic decision in the referendum of UK voters, given to them by a sovereign act of parliament by six to one in this House, enabling the British people to regain their birth right to govern themselves, for which people fought and died over generations? The referendum was then followed by a massive majority of 372 in this House of Commons on the third reading of the withdrawal bill. Trade and co-operation, yes. European government, no. From Steve Baker: Since the vote the economic news has confounded expectations. Will the prime minister agree with me that the time for project fear is over? From Jacob Rees-Mogg: Does [May] recall the words of Francis Drake? “There must be a beginning of any great matter, but the continuing unto the end until it be thoroughly finished yields the true glory.” May I wish her good luck and good fortune in her negotiations, until she comes to true glory and is welcomed back to this House as a 21st century Gloriana. From Peter Bone: Some members on both sides of this House have been working all their political career to extract the United Kingdom from the European super state. Sometimes we were isolated, sometimes we were ignored, and sometimes we were insulted. But thanks to the British people, today we’re leaving the European Union. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · The News Hub · Next Topic » |





![]](http://b3.ifrm.com/30308/113/0/p3001190/pip_r.png)




