Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to the NDU's forums. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll not only be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls, but you'll be able to enjoy the rights as citizens, such as voting on the RMB. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 3
Amendment to the Constitution
Topic Started: Jul 4 2012, 06:35 PM (624 Views)
Deleted User
Deleted User

Quote:
 
Amendment to the Constitution

Amendment One
-Section VIII shall be added to Article VI of the constitution. It shall state:

Quote:
 
Congress shall have the power to remove the President from office after a week of deliberation on the issue, and a plurality vote in favor.


Quote:
 
Congress shall have the power to remove a Justice of the Supreme Court from office after a week of deliberation on the issue, and a plurality vote in favor.


Amendment Two
- Section IV shall be added to Article IV. It shall state:

Quote:
 
One month after Congress is elected, a referendum shall be held on the question of a full congressional recall. If a plurality of citizens vote in favor, an early election for all of Congress shall take place. If a plurality of citizens vote against, Congress shall serve the remainder of their two month term.

All full recall elections shall take place four days after the recall is approved.


Amendment Three
- The term ''impeachment'' shall be removed in all instances it occurs in Article II Section II.

Amendment Four
- Section IX shall be added to Article VI of the constitution. It shall state:

Quote:
 
Congress shall have the power and authority to remove any cabinet official the President appoints by a plurality vote in favor. Furthermore, Congress must approve, by a plurality vote, all cases of the President removing a member of his cabinet


Amendment Five
-Article III Section I shall be edited. It shall state:

Quote:
 
The Legislative Branch shall consist of five representatives elected by the people in a free and fair election, who shall be referred to as Congress.

The number of representatives shall increase by one for every twenty citizens gained.


Amendment Six
Article IV Section III shall be amended. It will now state:

Quote:
 
The citizens of the region shall have the power to petition Congress to pass a law. If 20% of votes in the last Congressional election sign a petition in favor (subject to the rules of Section I), then Congress shall be forced to draft that law and vote on it within one week.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Minecraftia
Member Avatar
Former Title-Bearer of Terronia
What about impeaching congressmen?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

We already have a method of getting rid of Congressmen.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Minecraftia
Member Avatar
Former Title-Bearer of Terronia
Oh yeah. Duh. :facepalm:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Welsh Cowboy
President of DUAN
Amendment 1 is good.

Amendment 2, I'm still making up my mind on.

You should propose these each separately... In my opinion, at least. And this should also be in the citizens' petitions section.
Current President of DUAN

Please telegram me with questions!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Welsh Cowboy
Jul 4 2012, 06:42 PM
Amendment 1 is good.

Amendment 2, I'm still making up my mind on.

You should propose these each separately... In my opinion, at least. And this should also be in the citizens' petitions section.
Amendment #1 gives Congress more power, so naturally, amendment #2 must put a check on it.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Welsh Cowboy
President of DUAN
Alright... Although at that point, why shouldn't we just have elections every month?
Current President of DUAN

Please telegram me with questions!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

The point is to make Congress more accountable to the people and prevent them from using the process to stay in office. It's not about how long Congress should serve.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Welsh Cowboy
President of DUAN
What if we changed it to allowing a petition to remove Congress from office? Not at a set time every term?
Current President of DUAN

Please telegram me with questions!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

We are trying to put the burden of proof on Congress. They have to show us why they deserve to be in charge, we don't have to prove why they don't. Allowing a full recall of Congress through a petition works against that.

Basically, ''you will be up for recall'' is a lot more threatening than ''you might have petition that might work that might recall you''.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Welsh Cowboy
President of DUAN
But the point is, if people dont like Congress, they should take the initiative.

Having a referendum every month seems slightly burdensome, especially if people have no problem with Congress.
Current President of DUAN

Please telegram me with questions!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

(Note: I added an amendment I forgot.)
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

< But the point is, if people dont like Congress, they should take the initiative.

We have recall elections for that. Recall elections only allow for one attempt to recall them, and require a petition process. Even if you succeed, you've only taken out one guy.

What we are doing is putting the burden of proof on Congress for once. They have to prove to the people that they've done what they promised they would, we don't have to prove they haven't. It's much better that way.

< Having a referendum every month seems slightly burdensome

Come on, you know that's not true. There's nothing difficult about holding a referendum.

< especially if people have no problem with Congress.

And when people do we need to make it easier to get rid of them.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Welsh Cowboy
President of DUAN
Look, it's a good principle.

But if Congress is doing a bad job, don't you think people would notice? It's not as if the region is large enough that Congress does anything without it being noticed. If they do anything detrimental or unpopular, people will know, and if they want Congress gone, the people can take action.

A referendum essentially shuts down the RMB for a day, and it would be annoying if it was just a formality...

It's easier to make it simple to get rid of Congress when people want it, then require a referendum every single month. I want an option for a full-recall petition, by the way, not individual recalls.
Edited by Welsh Cowboy, Jul 4 2012, 07:04 PM.
Current President of DUAN

Please telegram me with questions!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

- Yes, people will notice if Congress is doing a bad job, and they will take action. It's here where you lose me. Why is it a bad thing that we make it easier for the people to get rid of Congress if they don't like it? This amendment makes it easier to take action, so it's entirely in line with what you said.

- Except it's not ''just a formality''. You assume too much about this.

- Yes, that's exactly what this amendment does: gets rid of Congress when the people want it. The people vote on keeping Congress in power or not, and if they don't like Congress, then it gets elected again.

( I added another amendment too.)
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Welsh Cowboy
President of DUAN
I think the idea of making it easier to "dispose" of Congress is good. That's why I'd like a petition system. I never said it would always be a formality, but I don't think a referendum would always be controversial at all.

And I just thought of something. If we dissolved Congress, who's going to run again? Probably the same people.
Current President of DUAN

Please telegram me with questions!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Quote:
 
I think the idea of making it easier to "dispose" of Congress is good.


Then don't oppose this.

Quote:
 
That's why I'd like a petition system.


Here's the difference: Petitions put the burden of proof on the people, not Congress. It's the people who have to campaign for signatures, find an opposing candidate, and get him elected. The Congressman who is being repealed has to do nothing.

When we have a referendum halfway through their term, it's Congress who has to prove they deserve to stay in power.

Quote:
 
I never said it would always be a formality


You basically did.

Quote:
 
but I don't think a referendum would always be controversial at all.


There's a ''No, I don't want a full recall of Congress'' option for a reason.

Quote:
 
And I just thought of something. If we dissolved Congress, who's going to run again? Probably the same people.


Your banal observation really doesn't mean that much. Of course they're going to run to save their seat.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Welsh Cowboy
President of DUAN
So let's say everyone loves Congress. They're doing a great job. Why should they have to spend time campaigning, and why should the RMB chatter have to be quieted, just so we can have a mandated referendum?

In times when Congress was doing a horrible job... Then all it would take, in my plan, is three signatures to prompt a full recall election. That's not hard at all to get. Then, Congress would have to explain why the petition should be voted down. So it has to prove itself too, in my plan.

I didn't say it would always be a formality, I said it would be annoying "if" a referendum was a mere formality.

And please answer this: If your plan is adopted, and Congress is thrown out, where are new candidates going to come from?
Edited by Welsh Cowboy, Jul 4 2012, 07:24 PM.
Current President of DUAN

Please telegram me with questions!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Welsh Cowboy
 
So let's say everyone loves Congress. They're doing a great job. Why should they have to spend time campaigning..
\\

Why would Congress campaign if everyone loved it? They would just let the referendum happen, and everyone would vote against a recall.

This point is just useless, honestly.

Quote:
 
and why should the RMB chatter have to be quieted, just so we can have a mandated referendum?


Where does my amendment say this will happen at all? Honestly, where are you getting this from? That's found nowhere in my proposal.

Quote:
 
In times when Congress was doing a horrible job... Then all it would take, in my plan, is three signatures to prompt a full recall election.


That's a little lenient. Besides, the current process only allows individuals to be recalled, not Congress as a hole. That's the point of this amendment.

Quote:
 
I didn't say it would always be a formality, I said it would be annoying "if" a referendum was a mere formality.


But it's not, so you're wasting your time saying this.


Quote:
 
And please answer this: If your plan is adopted, and Congress is thrown out, where are new candidates going to come from?


I think already did, but allow me to reiterate:

Of course the current members of Congress are going to run to keep their seats. Everyone would. This very banal and predictable observation means nothing.

We'll get new candidates when your recruitment board starts working. Ultimately, the fact that we may not have good candidates means nothing, because it's completely irrelevant to the merits of the idea in theory.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Welsh Cowboy
President of DUAN
Whenever we have an election, Birk always tells us to keep the chatter to a minimum, to allow the votes to be counted, and the ballot to remain visible. So this would happen every single month in your plan.

And to clarify my point: I want a new amendment. I want a new amendment in order to allow the recall of a full Congress.

And three signatures is lenient? According to your plan, you'd only need 0 signatures to spark a recall of Congress vote. No support would need to be shown.

At times, couldn't you say a referendum might be a formality if everyone loved Congress?

In regards to candidates, I see your point, although I would find it funny if the Congressmen won their elections even after a successful referendum.
Current President of DUAN

Please telegram me with questions!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Proposal Creation/Discussion Thread · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 3

edge created by tiptopolive of ifsz