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| Amendment to the Constitution | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 4 2012, 06:35 PM (624 Views) | |
| Deleted User | Jul 4 2012, 06:35 PM Post #1 |
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| Minecraftia | Jul 4 2012, 06:37 PM Post #2 |
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Former Title-Bearer of Terronia
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What about impeaching congressmen? |
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| Deleted User | Jul 4 2012, 06:38 PM Post #3 |
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We already have a method of getting rid of Congressmen. |
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| Minecraftia | Jul 4 2012, 06:41 PM Post #4 |
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Former Title-Bearer of Terronia
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Oh yeah. Duh. :facepalm: |
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| Welsh Cowboy | Jul 4 2012, 06:42 PM Post #5 |
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President of DUAN
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Amendment 1 is good. Amendment 2, I'm still making up my mind on. You should propose these each separately... In my opinion, at least. And this should also be in the citizens' petitions section. |
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Current President of DUAN Please telegram me with questions! | |
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| Deleted User | Jul 4 2012, 06:43 PM Post #6 |
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Amendment #1 gives Congress more power, so naturally, amendment #2 must put a check on it. |
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| Welsh Cowboy | Jul 4 2012, 06:45 PM Post #7 |
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President of DUAN
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Alright... Although at that point, why shouldn't we just have elections every month? |
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Current President of DUAN Please telegram me with questions! | |
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| Deleted User | Jul 4 2012, 06:47 PM Post #8 |
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The point is to make Congress more accountable to the people and prevent them from using the process to stay in office. It's not about how long Congress should serve. |
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| Welsh Cowboy | Jul 4 2012, 06:48 PM Post #9 |
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President of DUAN
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What if we changed it to allowing a petition to remove Congress from office? Not at a set time every term? |
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Current President of DUAN Please telegram me with questions! | |
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| Deleted User | Jul 4 2012, 06:51 PM Post #10 |
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We are trying to put the burden of proof on Congress. They have to show us why they deserve to be in charge, we don't have to prove why they don't. Allowing a full recall of Congress through a petition works against that. Basically, ''you will be up for recall'' is a lot more threatening than ''you might have petition that might work that might recall you''. |
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| Welsh Cowboy | Jul 4 2012, 06:54 PM Post #11 |
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President of DUAN
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But the point is, if people dont like Congress, they should take the initiative. Having a referendum every month seems slightly burdensome, especially if people have no problem with Congress. |
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Current President of DUAN Please telegram me with questions! | |
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| Deleted User | Jul 4 2012, 06:55 PM Post #12 |
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Deleted User
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(Note: I added an amendment I forgot.) |
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| Deleted User | Jul 4 2012, 06:57 PM Post #13 |
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< But the point is, if people dont like Congress, they should take the initiative. We have recall elections for that. Recall elections only allow for one attempt to recall them, and require a petition process. Even if you succeed, you've only taken out one guy. What we are doing is putting the burden of proof on Congress for once. They have to prove to the people that they've done what they promised they would, we don't have to prove they haven't. It's much better that way. < Having a referendum every month seems slightly burdensome Come on, you know that's not true. There's nothing difficult about holding a referendum. < especially if people have no problem with Congress. And when people do we need to make it easier to get rid of them. |
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| Welsh Cowboy | Jul 4 2012, 07:03 PM Post #14 |
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President of DUAN
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Look, it's a good principle. But if Congress is doing a bad job, don't you think people would notice? It's not as if the region is large enough that Congress does anything without it being noticed. If they do anything detrimental or unpopular, people will know, and if they want Congress gone, the people can take action. A referendum essentially shuts down the RMB for a day, and it would be annoying if it was just a formality... It's easier to make it simple to get rid of Congress when people want it, then require a referendum every single month. I want an option for a full-recall petition, by the way, not individual recalls. Edited by Welsh Cowboy, Jul 4 2012, 07:04 PM.
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Current President of DUAN Please telegram me with questions! | |
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| Deleted User | Jul 4 2012, 07:11 PM Post #15 |
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- Yes, people will notice if Congress is doing a bad job, and they will take action. It's here where you lose me. Why is it a bad thing that we make it easier for the people to get rid of Congress if they don't like it? This amendment makes it easier to take action, so it's entirely in line with what you said. - Except it's not ''just a formality''. You assume too much about this. - Yes, that's exactly what this amendment does: gets rid of Congress when the people want it. The people vote on keeping Congress in power or not, and if they don't like Congress, then it gets elected again. ( I added another amendment too.) |
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| Welsh Cowboy | Jul 4 2012, 07:14 PM Post #16 |
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President of DUAN
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I think the idea of making it easier to "dispose" of Congress is good. That's why I'd like a petition system. I never said it would always be a formality, but I don't think a referendum would always be controversial at all. And I just thought of something. If we dissolved Congress, who's going to run again? Probably the same people. |
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Current President of DUAN Please telegram me with questions! | |
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| Deleted User | Jul 4 2012, 07:17 PM Post #17 |
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Deleted User
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Then don't oppose this.
Here's the difference: Petitions put the burden of proof on the people, not Congress. It's the people who have to campaign for signatures, find an opposing candidate, and get him elected. The Congressman who is being repealed has to do nothing. When we have a referendum halfway through their term, it's Congress who has to prove they deserve to stay in power.
You basically did.
There's a ''No, I don't want a full recall of Congress'' option for a reason.
Your banal observation really doesn't mean that much. Of course they're going to run to save their seat. |
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| Welsh Cowboy | Jul 4 2012, 07:23 PM Post #18 |
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President of DUAN
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So let's say everyone loves Congress. They're doing a great job. Why should they have to spend time campaigning, and why should the RMB chatter have to be quieted, just so we can have a mandated referendum? In times when Congress was doing a horrible job... Then all it would take, in my plan, is three signatures to prompt a full recall election. That's not hard at all to get. Then, Congress would have to explain why the petition should be voted down. So it has to prove itself too, in my plan. I didn't say it would always be a formality, I said it would be annoying "if" a referendum was a mere formality. And please answer this: If your plan is adopted, and Congress is thrown out, where are new candidates going to come from? Edited by Welsh Cowboy, Jul 4 2012, 07:24 PM.
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Current President of DUAN Please telegram me with questions! | |
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| Deleted User | Jul 4 2012, 07:30 PM Post #19 |
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Deleted User
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\\ Why would Congress campaign if everyone loved it? They would just let the referendum happen, and everyone would vote against a recall. This point is just useless, honestly.
Where does my amendment say this will happen at all? Honestly, where are you getting this from? That's found nowhere in my proposal.
That's a little lenient. Besides, the current process only allows individuals to be recalled, not Congress as a hole. That's the point of this amendment.
But it's not, so you're wasting your time saying this.
I think already did, but allow me to reiterate: Of course the current members of Congress are going to run to keep their seats. Everyone would. This very banal and predictable observation means nothing. We'll get new candidates when your recruitment board starts working. Ultimately, the fact that we may not have good candidates means nothing, because it's completely irrelevant to the merits of the idea in theory. |
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| Welsh Cowboy | Jul 4 2012, 07:39 PM Post #20 |
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President of DUAN
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Whenever we have an election, Birk always tells us to keep the chatter to a minimum, to allow the votes to be counted, and the ballot to remain visible. So this would happen every single month in your plan. And to clarify my point: I want a new amendment. I want a new amendment in order to allow the recall of a full Congress. And three signatures is lenient? According to your plan, you'd only need 0 signatures to spark a recall of Congress vote. No support would need to be shown. At times, couldn't you say a referendum might be a formality if everyone loved Congress? In regards to candidates, I see your point, although I would find it funny if the Congressmen won their elections even after a successful referendum. |
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Current President of DUAN Please telegram me with questions! | |
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