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| Blood Expenditures; (Discussion Thread) | |
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| Topic Started: Monday, 24. March 2014, 23:39 (692 Views) | |
| Malia | Monday, 24. March 2014, 23:39 Post #1 |
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I'm a Queen
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Blood. A vampire’s life revolves around blood. They need it to exist, to stay active, and to pose as human. So how much do they need, how much can they hold, and how much can they take? A human body holds about ten pints of blood; but taking more than a small fraction of that will hospitalize the person in question. In fact a human can only lose three pints of blood before they’ll end up in the hospital. If they lose four pints in one sitting they’ll go into an anemic shock and most likely die if not immediately treated at a hospital. Even in a hospital someone with half their body blood drained away cannot survive. The human body replenishes between one and three pints of blood a month depending on diet, healthy levels and activities. Generally only around two pints of new blood is produced. Which means feeding on a human regularly could easily cause them to die if they don’t replenish the red blood cells. This included ghouls. While ghouls do heal faster than a normal human, if you drain a pint of their blood, then fee them a pint, all you’re doing is giving them vitae in place of their own blood. Vitae they might burn up trying to heal the damage they take from becoming anemic. A vampire requires a full pint of blood every morning to waken from the death slumber that the sun puts them into. Most vampires can only hold ten pints of blood in their body at any given time. The older the blood line the vampire is from (generational) the more they can hold. On Danse Macabre a vampire can’t realistically hold more than thirteen pints of blood in their system. So after awake, the maximum they can have in their system is twelve pints. To increase their physical attributes a vampire must burn a pint of blood for each increase they want to make. For an Average strength vampire to go Above average takes a pint. To go higher, to Extremely Strong, requires a second pint. To go to “As Strong As Possible” requires yet another pint. So for an average vampire to go to the strongest a human can manage (something all vampires can do) they’d need to burn three pints of blood. The same if they were increasing their dexterity or their stamina. Each costs them a pint. To mimic a human body, heat, heartbeat, breathing, requires a pint of blood. A vampire can expend a pint of blood and mimic human norms for physical characteristics for the entire evening for just that one pint. But if they wish to get their sex on, producing lubricants, waking the muscles and hardening the penis requires ANOTHER pint of blood, focused directly into the sex organs to rouse them from their desiccated state. Certain Disciplines, such as Celerity, Vicissitude etc, also require blood. In general it takes a pint of blood to activate one of these powers, and most do not last long and require reactivation with more blood expending. Vicissitude in particular is incredibly demanding in terms of blood, often requiring a single pint per physical characteristic being changed. Horrid form requires two blood points just to turn it on, but lasts for the entire scene. The burst of speed from Celerity lasts for only a handful of seconds per pint of blood used to activate it, meaning a demanding fight that causes the Brujah or Toreador to use their Celerity frequently, could fast drain them of their blood reservoir. Most of a vampire’s blood is actually stored in the tissue around their heart, not in the stomach. A vampire does not bleed unless they choose to. Injuries are simply sluggish and the blood pools at the surface of the wound. Bonecrafting can cause a vampire’s ribs to turn inward and tear the most blood saturated tissues, those near the heart. When the ribs shred the heart the vampire so injured loses half their blood pool to the damage. |
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| Jane Marlow | Monday, 24. March 2014, 23:51 Post #2 |
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Vampire Damage Control Professional
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Dave/Malia's post is the proposed first entry into a Vampire Physiology that will, pending it's general approval, hopefully be going up in the Vault soon. This will be useful in giving us a board-wide consensus on how vampire bodies work. Please reply with any comments or critiques! Edited by Jane Marlow, Monday, 24. March 2014, 23:52.
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| Victoria Scott | Tuesday, 25. March 2014, 00:20 Post #3 |
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Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.
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Aren't 9 and 8 gen vamps supposed to hold more blood on their bodies? 9 gen supposedly holds 14, 8 gen 15. |
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| Jane Marlow | Thursday, 27. March 2014, 13:28 Post #4 |
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Vampire Damage Control Professional
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(nods) That's the table top convention, but we don't really USE generation on this board, so I don't think that distinction exists. So I guess we could either say all vampires hold equal amounts of blood, or tie it to something else, like age. |
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| Jeremy Starling | Sunday, 30. March 2014, 22:04 Post #5 |
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Seneschal of London
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I think it would be a good thing if all vampires have an equal amount of blood. So that for once age is not a determining factor. Then no categorizing is needed. And if older characters get more discipline dots than young ones, even that could already cause a lot of new applications with 90 to 99 year old old Vampires. |
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| Jane Marlow | Tuesday, 8. April 2014, 17:38 Post #6 |
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Vampire Damage Control Professional
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I agree with poJeremy's observation. I am posting this in the vault with the sentence about generation determining blood amount removed. Other can still comment to request revisions. You can also comment offering other well written, formatted contributions to the Vampire Physiology thread. |
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| Clarice Harris | Tuesday, 8. April 2014, 18:29 Post #7 |
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Sexually abused by a Jew
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I made a thread about physiology quite long ago, if there's anything useful feel free to draw info from there http://w11.zetaboards.com/DanseMacabre/topic/9678983/1/ |
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| Jane Marlow | Tuesday, 8. April 2014, 20:30 Post #8 |
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Vampire Damage Control Professional
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Thanks Orissa. I thought I remembered that, but didn't manage to find it when I looked. |
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| Victoria Scott | Wednesday, 9. April 2014, 03:02 Post #9 |
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Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.
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Well, some ancilla disciplines require a bigger amount of blood spent, at least in VtM tabletop. Shouldn't ancilla have like... one or two dots more than neonates? I understand we don't want a bunch of older characters just for the sake of being stronger and that's why we try to make tiers as equally as possible, but then again a 100 years old vampire needs a 100 years old background and that's something not everybody is willing to research and write. |
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| Jane Marlow | Wednesday, 9. April 2014, 15:24 Post #10 |
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Vampire Damage Control Professional
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Interesting point. I'd be cool with that. Though I'd be more inclined to say that it's not so much that they can store more blood as it is that their blood goes further. A few drops from an elder will go as far as a pint from a fledgeling. |
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| Malia | Wednesday, 9. April 2014, 15:26 Post #11 |
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I'm a Queen
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amounts to the same thing in the end. You could just set the Fledgling at 10 pints, and add a pint for every age category *lol* simple accounting makes it easy. Shouldn't even be a huge problem unless people are being assholes and abusing the system. Only Celerity and some of the rarer powers like Vissicitude even use blood to activate. |
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| Jane Marlow | Wednesday, 9. April 2014, 16:10 Post #12 |
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Vampire Damage Control Professional
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Exactly. I don't even think we have to get that exact. Just say the blood of older vampires is more potent. This should be incorporated into role play and taken into account when you power your disciplines. Wham, bam, thank you ma'am. |
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| Punslinger | Friday, 18. April 2014, 03:45 Post #13 |
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Childe
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I don't suppose I'm adding anything useful by throwing this out there, but I figure it's worth noting that makes sense even in the tabletop setting; mages that have studied vampires are most often interested in their blood's apparent ability to store quintessence (magic). It follows then that an older, stronger vampire's blood might be more concentrated than that of a thin-blood. |
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| Katrina Von Silias | Friday, 18. April 2014, 06:41 Post #14 |
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Schrodinger's Malkavian
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I'll second Malia's suggestion of adding a pint per age category. Gives some reward to advancement while keeping things in a low linear that's easy to monitor and really can't go out of control. The two alternatives of age or everyone equal are immensely flawed in my opinion. |
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| Alarik | Friday, 18. April 2014, 08:33 Post #15 |
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"Papers, Please."
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This is still a freeform forum. If we're going to have to do blood registration we might as well get sheets. And that wasn't the intent of this place, I recall! |
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| Jeremy Starling | Friday, 18. April 2014, 12:18 Post #16 |
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Seneschal of London
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That would mean that the amount of bloodpoints that a vampire can "store" rises with the amount of discipline points? And I thought the age categories are only for determining how many discipline powers a character gets now. And that after that you can advance your disciplines without suddenly rising into the next age category. But anyway: It doesn´t cost any blood to use Presence? Or Dominate? Did I understand that right? In Vampire Larp (and that´s what I mostly played until recently) it cost blood to use almost any discipline (except Potence for example). Also to use Obfuscate to make yourself "invisible" cost one bloodpoint each time, or to use any Auspex power. |
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| Lynx | Friday, 18. April 2014, 12:33 Post #17 |
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Lord Torchwood
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Well, I don't think we really need to track exactly how many blood points a person has unless some people are going absolutely crazy with their blood expenditures. Just remember it takes blood to wake when the sun goes down. It takes blood to stimulate human body temperature and coloring. It takes blood to become sexually capable. So if you do all of that every day you're already at 1/3 of a normal vampire's blood load. Then if you use something like celerity or vicissitude you've got a lot more blood burning. And really, when you consider the application process, we DO use sheets. We just use a written sheet that is then evaluated by the moderators. We just don't use MATH. |
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| Sawyer | Friday, 18. April 2014, 12:57 Post #18 |
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Friendly Neighborhood Vampire
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This is precisely what those categories are- not age, not status, but specifically discipline ratings for the purpose of determining how many powers a character would realistically have. They are out of character classifications that could've just as easily been labeled Tier One through Tier Six. Your discussion on status ties into this neatly- neonate and ancilla in particular are titles given in-game for a variety of reasons, and that in-game status isn't set out of character. Better to keep this very simple and very free form- older vampires have more potent blood and have more of it. A vague and broad assumption that people are free to play with however they like. After all, there are very few cases where a vampire is going to use up the majority of their blood points anyway. Things like burning blood to make you faster or stronger or using blood to power disciplines like Vissectitude can be followed up by the knowledge that a vampire is probably hungry now, and should be played as realistically as possible. Actually noting how many pints were used or how many pints are left is probably not necessary- after all, how many of us can precisely calculate how much blood is in our bodies at any given time, or how much we lose if someone cuts us open? A vague estimate would be the best a normal human could do in most circumstances. |
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| Punslinger | Saturday, 19. April 2014, 23:12 Post #19 |
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Childe
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And you don't want that, trust me. Tabletop math is one thing, there's books and you can look up disputes in a couple minutes because everyone involved is present. Forum math will kill you and teabag the corpse. It's an ugly scene, no matter how well organized. A roleplay thread will run 3 posts, there'll be a dispute, and the dispute thread is six pages long and lasts three months. The only thing you really need for good forum roleplay is a well-defined canon, and little details like this aren't as important as the idea of how a situation will play out supplemented by a little impartial DMing. |
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| Bounce | Sunday, 20. April 2014, 12:01 Post #20 |
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Dweeb
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Definitely in agreement with Punslinger here. The idea is to be freeform, because the nature of forum-based roleplay necessitates some elasticity with the "rules" for table-top (which are always subject to GM interpretation or re-interpretation as table-top is very closely moderated as opposed to our set up here). So long as we (the community "we" here) understand the foundational rules or guidelines of the setting in which we are writing, there should be a degree of liberty for posts. And then we obviously have the moderators for if there is a dispute as to how a particular scene is working out, or not working out, however the case may be. |
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8:32 PM Jul 11