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| Status list draft (inofficial beta) | |
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| Topic Started: Thursday, 12. June 2014, 18:03 (734 Views) | |
| Raposa | Thursday, 12. June 2014, 18:03 Post #1 |
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Walking indifference
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Alarik Blücher - Prince of London (Exalted, Famous, Well-Known) (Acknowledged) (Ancilla in his own right) James E. G. Henderson - Nosferatu Primogen, Seneschal (Revered) (Cherished, Esteemed) (Acknowledged) (Ancilla in his own right) Caston Kane - Toreador Primogen (Revered) (Acknowledged) (Ancilla in his own right) George Henry Harris - Brujah Primogen (Revered) (Acknowledged) (Ancilla in his own right) Ryan O'Reily - Ventrue Primogen (Revered) (Acknowledged) William H. Towser Tremere Primogen (Revered) (Acknowledged) (Ancilla in his own right) (vacant) Malk Primogen (Revered) (vacant) Gangrel Primogen (Revered) Dr. rer. nat. Katharina B. Wilke - Grand Harpy, [Whip] (Influential) (Acknowledged) (Ancilla in her own right) Leola Cira Mancini - Keeper of Elysium, [Whip] (Honorable) (Acknowledged) (Ancilla in her own right) Jane Marlow-Diaz - Deputy Sheriff (Feared) (Acknowledged) (Resourceful) (Ancilla in her own right) Sawyer Flint - Deputy Sheriff (Feared) (Acknowledged) (Resourceful) (Ancilla in his own right) Emily Watts - Scourge (Dreaded) (Acknowledged) (Ancilla) Jeremy Starling - Whip (Acknowledged) (Ancilla) -------------------------------Borderline cases Ellora Reese (Acknowledged) (Foreign Ancilla) Max Keller (Acknowledged) (Foreign Ancilla) Sakhr (Acknowledged) (Foreign Ancilla) Victoria (Tory) Scott (Acknowledged) (Foreign Ancilla) ------------------------------- Neonate Clarice Harris (Acknowledged) (Resourceful) Adael Avir [INACTIVE?] (Acknowledged) Adrianna Hale [INACTIVE?] (Acknowledged) Aguirre Efrain Maddox (Acknowledged) Alessandra Carter (Acknowledged) Alžbeta Andráško (Lisbeth) (Acknowledged) Belle Dubois (Acknowledged) Caitlyn Cummings (Acknowledged) Chrissie Johnson, aka 'CJ' (Acknowledged) Christophe Pierre Dardenne (Acknowledged) Damon Church (Acknowledged) Dylan Ford [INACTIVE?] (Acknowledged) Eion Ashley Macnab (Acknowledged) Elizabeth 'Pidge' Veidt (Acknowledged) Gideon Lockwood (Acknowledged) Graham Mason (Acknowledged) Janette Adler, MD (Acknowledged) Jason B. Dahlgren (Acknowledged) Jelena Korolenko (Acknowledged) Lazaruss (Acknowledged) Leo Fleming (Acknowledged) Leslie (Acknowledged) Malia Hauke (Acknowledged) Margo Moreau (Acknowledged) Marthereau (Acknowledged) Matias Pelayo Agustin (Acknowledged) Moshe Klein (Acknowledged) Roussol (Acknowledged) Ruaidrí Alasdair (Acknowledged) Vanth (Acknowledged) Veronicka Veselovsky (Acknowledged) Xavier Hargreaves (Acknowledged) Lochlan O'Connell (Acknowledged) (FOOLISH) ------------------------------- Fledgeling (None at the moment) -------------------------------No Status / Unable to hold status Bill Baum Charles Bardin Iakov Reznik Johann Zantosa Marcus Badeux (Fabian) [INACTIVE?] Neil Dunsirn Piscina Sherwood Vanja Vaskovic Vito Giovanni [INACTIVE?] What does the stuff in this list mean ? Easy. First of all, you will notice there are a lot of people that only have the acknowledged status. Why is that ? Simple, they are Neonates in their own right, but havent achieved anything of note in London that the Harpy has heard about. If she is even able to pin a face to the name in the first place. Note that this is not necessarily a bad thing, in the army as in the Cam, saying goes its easier to just do your thing if those upstairs don't know your name or what you look like. So if you're not into social games, thats what you do, right ? Or at least could. Below those are the people that haven't been officially become neonates in their own right because they are under someone's supervision at the time being. Below that you find people like the independents, who are not part of the Camarilla and are therefore unable to hold Camarilla Status, because if they did they would be members of the Cam. Easy, eh ? That doesn't mean of course they can't strive for getting that status, but it won't be easy to obtain for outsiders obviously. The different groups withing the neonate category are easy to explain, seeing how positive and negative status divide it up into 'people who dont stand out (for good or bad)', 'people who have gathered positive attention' and 'people who have gathered negative attention'. OK, so now, lets go about Borderline cases. Why Borderline ? Simple. Those people can be seen as foreign ancilla or at least claim that title, but so far, they havent done much to show that they have ambitions to retain that position (Tory for example will probably not give a shit about Cam status that might be attached to her. Max on the other hand might and would want to make sure he gets out of borderline and into the proper Ancilla category). They are basically 'Ancillae on probation' whose future actions will decide on whether they move up or down on the ladder. Ancilla has been divided into two categories. Ancillae and Ancillae in their own right. According to Catherine, Neonates can't hold offices. Therefore, Ancilla status is tied to those offices. People who gain the office, gain the status, people who lose the office, lose the status and go back into neonate again. This is differentiated from the Ancillae in their own right, who's Ancilla status is seperate and independent from the Ancilla status the office grants them. Upon losing their office, they will keep their status, unless it has been stripped from them for reasons of criminal persecution or other reasons. An ancilla in his own right who loses his ancilla status retains the status conferred by his office and slips back into neonate as soon as the office is no longer held by him/her, provided he/she didn't try to get their rank back in the meantime. Above the rank and file of the Ancillae and office holders, the Primogen have taken their place. Nominally the oldest and most powerful members of their respective clan, this entitlement grants them a special position inside the pyramid of power. Few, after all, can challenge a Primogens power and get away with it, or that is how it is supposed to be on paper, at least. I don't think I need to elaborate on Prince and Seneshal, their position is rather... obvious after all. IMPORTANT NOTE: Is this arbitrary ? Of course it is, we are playing power hungry monsters after all. My primary intention with this DRAFT (NOT THE FINAL PRODUCT!) is to make clear that status is something that can change and move a lot in both directions and quickly at that. People can rise or fall based on their real and perceived action and if they play their cards right, regain what they have lost or work towards a place inside the higher echelons of society. There is enough for everybody, I think. More social play for those who want to take part in the upper rank's conflicts as well as the opportunity for those who arent as interested to do their own thing, not being concerned with their status as much, like in RL or... well, a vampire game. Its your game, folks. If you want it, earn it. If you are content with what you have, thats fine as well. As always, Im open for thoughts and suggestions about this. (THIS IS DRAFT 1, ITS A BIT META, BUT IT SHOWS THE EXAMPLE OF HOW IT WOULD LOOK IF THE HARPY HAD AN EAR TO THE NOT VERY ACTIVE LONDON RUMOUR MILL AND COULD AT LEAST HEAR ABOUT PEOPLE) |
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| Iakov Reznik | Thursday, 12. June 2014, 18:38 Post #2 |
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"Persona Non Grata"
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Great list here! Also, being undocumented is fun! (until further notice anyhow)
Edited by Iakov Reznik, Thursday, 12. June 2014, 18:39.
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| Jeremy Starling | Friday, 13. June 2014, 18:41 Post #3 |
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Seneschal of London
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Will such a "hierarchy list" get official IC at some point? I would quite like that. But it still can be different somewhere else, I hope? In Dresden it is different, and I don´t really want to alter any descriptions about it. I don´t mind if Max has difficulties to get used to the different status system that exists in London. Why should he like a system that is of disadvantage to him... |
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| TheJersy | Friday, 13. June 2014, 20:25 Post #4 |
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A Fierce Creature of the Night! *RawR!*
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If I understand this harpy business correctly, than IC there would be no such thing as a comprehensible list like this. "A harpy" isn't like a specific office title, it's more like the vampire slang for "A vampire with opinions about other vampires, who is somehow influential enough so that their opinions actually matter". When a random neonate says you dress badly, nobody cares. When a harpy says you dress badly, nobody of her audience will ever invite you to a party, so that you wouldn't cramp their style. And a "Grand Harpy" is exactly like a normal harpy, except you can count on the fact she knows all the other harpies and takes mental notes of all of their opinions. When just one harpy says you dress badly, then it's still might be just a local thing. But when more harpies say you dress badly, then the Grand Harpy would become inclined to believe that it's true. And once that happens, it's official. You can't argue that someone just happens to have a different taste in fashion. It's simply recognised as an universal fact that you indeed dress badly, and if you ever want to go to a party in the same city (and sometimes even the adjacent areas), you'd better change your wardrobe... ...at least that's the way I was imagining it. Am I anywhere close to reality? |
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| Lynx | Friday, 13. June 2014, 21:15 Post #5 |
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Lord Torchwood
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A Harpy’s word influences the domain’s attitudes and can be a powerful supporter of the status quo or a force for insidious change. Harpies are rarely appointed directly (and Kindred rarely trust those who are). Instead, a Harpy paradoxically becomes so by acting as a Harpy. The Harpy’s role is often intertwined with domain politics, and it is a bold or foolish Prince who neglects those vampires who represent the cutting edge of popular opinion in her domain. Vampires assuming the role of a Harpies are both feared and trusted. Trusted as they are the official recorders of debts owed, status gained and can serve as diplomats or envoys to other domains. And feared as they are unusually aware of dirty little secrets, crimes committed in other cities and if they have a mind to are able to raise a Kindred to the heights of legend or to destroy their reputation forever. Harpies are generally from the Toreador clan but some have chosen the Brujah or other clans to hold the station. Harpies communicate with other through various secret channels. As such it is a very bad idea to cross a Harpy for all Domains will hear of it soon after. Harpies consider themselves to be the "voice of society" and can be quite brutal with their comments. Newcomers to a domain are advised to ensure the Harpy is aware of their arrival so proper arrangements can be made for safely entering the domain. Some Harpies charge the arrivals a "boon" or favour for such assistance but not always. When dealing with Harpies it is best to remember that they are generally extremely skilled in social skills, quite vain and will always make sure they come out ahead in any deal. Treat them with respect, keep your business short, leave them in peace and you may end your visit to an Elysium without too much trouble waiting for you on your return home. |
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| Lynx | Friday, 13. June 2014, 22:43 Post #6 |
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Lord Torchwood
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Though technically none of the Anarchs would care where they're listed on such a list because the Anarchs don't hold to Camarilla ranking systems at all considering part of the "Elder hierarchical system keeping them down." And doesn't Acknowledged translate to = Not A Fledgling? |
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| Sawyer | Friday, 13. June 2014, 22:54 Post #7 |
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Friendly Neighborhood Vampire
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I think acknowledged should translate to "has had a presentation and is part of the community", which may apply to some (but not all) anarchs. A fledgeling may be acknowledged, but not have left her sire's tutelage. In this list, however, it seems to mean more "they exist". Anarchs are, after all, part of the Camarilla in the eyes of the Camarilla, so a Harpy granting them status wouldn't be too out of left field. Edited by Sawyer, Friday, 13. June 2014, 22:56.
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| Jane Marlow | Friday, 13. June 2014, 22:59 Post #8 |
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Vampire Damage Control Professional
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Yeah, I think Acknowledged translates to "Scourge--do not kill this." It's independent of fledgeling status. |
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| Lynx | Friday, 13. June 2014, 23:08 Post #9 |
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Lord Torchwood
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Well yes and no, if a Harpy acknowledges an Anarch has status than that implies the Anarch also has political/social power within the Camarilla, and clearly the Camarilla wouldn't let an open Anarch hold a political office within the Camarilla. Victoria Scott wouldn't really be allowed to hold the status of Whip in Clan Brujah, for instance, given her complete disdain for the Prince and his authority. I could see the Harpies acknowledging the power they have and the age and elderhood they represent but withholding any actual status. |
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| Cid | Friday, 13. June 2014, 23:12 Post #10 |
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Raise the retirement age?
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It's not an acknowledgement of power or status. It's just acknowledgement of 'oh, that person exists too'. That's what I take from this, anyway. |
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| Leslie | Saturday, 14. June 2014, 00:04 Post #11 |
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Flemish... furry... flirty... feline! (YODO) Perfection Purrs!
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This is more a private Harpy list if I'm not mistaken. Imagine Catherine at her desk going: "Know that guy but don't like him. Know her but not important. Know that name but who cares. Urgh he is an idiot and so is she... will need to prove their worth!" Something like that. Not used IC really but important if you need something from the Harpy. These are a glimpse of her thoughts. Or at least what I make of it. ^^ Edited by Leslie, Saturday, 14. June 2014, 00:05.
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| Renard | Saturday, 14. June 2014, 00:15 Post #12 |
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Master Chief
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Acknowledged means 'Not under someones accounting.' The list as a draft is an example how it would look like if the Harpy knew about everyone. Anarchs as technically part of the Camarilla are therefore also technically able to hold status and in her eyes are seen as members. The actual list I would use has a lot more 'Who is that ?' and 'I never heard of this person' in it. Also, while Harpy is normally informal, Londons Grand Harpy has been appointed and is therefore a formal office (not unusual I have seen it handled this way on other boards too, but its not 100 % as usual, yes). Same would go with normal Harpies if she appointed some. Also, to hold an Office an open anarch would still need to get the Cam guys to consent and thats what I think makes it difficult. Also keep in mind that this is a subjective view. Anarchs might not necessarily care or even know about their position on that list, as it is as such not necessarily a public one. I think the descision whether the char knows cares or utilizes this status are one of the things that keep the line between Cam and Anarchs blurry. Is an anarch an Anarch because he wants to overthrow the elders ? Or is it just the stereotypical neonate on his 'teenage' rebel trip, as many elders like to call it ? Easy lines are, after all, for suckers. Complicated is fun ! ^^ |
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| Victoria Scott | Saturday, 14. June 2014, 00:32 Post #13 |
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Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.
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Tory doesn't give a shit about her status at all, but it is true that even regardless her former office, she fought in two of the greatest battles against the Sabbat in the States. If Alarik would ask his american buddies about her, she'd most likely get a good review no matter her allegiance now. And I can totally see her proud of her Ancilla status, not like a prestige think but more of an 'I'm a full grown up individual that stands for herself and not even the Camarilla can deny this' kind of deal. As an Anarch tho, that status would speak of her independence, personal achievements and experience just as scars for a warrior or medals for a soldier. Thats what Ancilla means to me. |
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