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| Obfuscate Discussion & Clarification; Moving from the Standard Presentation/Blythe House Security thread | |
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| Topic Started: Friday, 27. June 2014, 19:48 (850 Views) | |
| Pidge | Friday, 27. June 2014, 19:48 Post #1 |
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Sheriff Pro Tempore
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Moving the Obfuscate clarification and discussion over here so we can keep the Blythe House security thread related to Blythe House security. Background summary: There was a misunderstanding (primarily on my part) about the interaction of Obfuscate, especially Mask of a Thousand Faces, with imaging technology. I am moving the discussion here in order to (1) keep everything in one place, and (2) help provide clarification on the new ruling. Disclaimer: Yep, I'm personally invested in how Obfuscate works, but I'm okay with the mods' ruling! Just want to be 100% sure we all understand the technicalities. The following quotes are directly copy/pasted from the other thread. I skipped a couple of non-relevant posts (just requests for a change of venue), but all text below is original. AND A REMINDER: If you want to add to this discussion, please do, but please keep it civil! We're all in this together.
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| Pidge | Friday, 27. June 2014, 19:59 Post #2 |
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Sheriff Pro Tempore
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All of that being said, here's my position: I think I now understand the reasoning behind the mods' ruling and I am of course happy to comply. However, due to my previous [mis]understanding of the Obfuscate/technology intersection, I made some calls OOC that affected Pidge's behavior IC in existing threads and may be problematic and/or Masquerade-breaching when viewed in light of the updated ruling. Sawyer is right, Pidge still looks pretty human, but the kind of human who really should be in a hospital bed in a medically induced coma. If kine see her they'd be more likely to call an ambulance than the police. It would be easiest for me to cover my own butt if Pidge is allowed to retroactively take the False Reflection merit, as she is not dumb and this is entirely player error. I won't do so without mod approval, and if that's an unreasonable route, please let me know so I can reason through my options. (PMs appreciated, I have sporadic board access this weekend.) Thanks again to everyone working on clarifying this hiccup. |
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| Alarik | Friday, 27. June 2014, 20:20 Post #3 |
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"Papers, Please."
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For Alarik the ruling is very good news! For Vanth... not so much! I'm actually wondering how this would work with break-ins and the like where the security camera footage might be used the next day to determine who did it. Being similarly unaware of the impact of this until this ruling I wonder how Vanth/Isaac should try to counter this. (And in all likelihood WOULD have countered this since his mug isn't plastered all over London wanted boards.) Should he just wear a scarf or mask over his real face when breaking in to things? Or would disabling the cameras still help somehow? |
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| Jane Marlow | Friday, 27. June 2014, 20:27 Post #4 |
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Vampire Damage Control Professional
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Pidge: I had actually assumed Pidge had the False Reflection merit, when I was reading her presentation thread, and I think it makes sense for her since she's a child of a very techie age. I'm now kind of imagining False Reflection as an increasingly common merit among young Nosferatu. A kind of instinctive adaptation to a more monitored era. And also a merit that allows PC Nossies to be more ability to be active and social in London. Which is good. Alarik: Disabling cameras would work well, since it doesn't matter if Obfuscate works on cameras if the cameras aren't working. |
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| Alarik | Friday, 27. June 2014, 20:30 Post #5 |
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"Papers, Please."
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Jane: wouldn't most cameras nowadays transmit immediately to a computer somewhere? Or would it still have a tape inside? I know modern cameras work wirelessly but most old stuff could still have tapes I suppose. I just don't know OOC! Vanth probably would, given his interests. |
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| Jane Marlow | Friday, 27. June 2014, 21:56 Post #6 |
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Vampire Damage Control Professional
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Alarik: I think most modern security cameras are digital. I would assume that most still use local storage mechanisms--transmitting to a computer somewhere in the building instead of to an internal tape. Not sure though. I'd have to research. |
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| Malia | Friday, 27. June 2014, 22:09 Post #7 |
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I'm a Queen
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Vanth could be wandering around with a Cheshire Cat mask under his Obfuscation and be constantly prone to breaking CCTV cameras. *lol* nobody would be able to pin it on him and nobody would see his mask if he put a face over it |
English Norwegian Spanish I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.![]() | |
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| Alarik | Friday, 27. June 2014, 22:31 Post #8 |
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"Papers, Please."
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That's the thing, though. Mask is Obfuscate too. Wouldn't it also be negated? |
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| Malia | Friday, 27. June 2014, 22:34 Post #9 |
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I'm a Queen
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No I meant like a physical mask. If he walked around wearing like a V for Vendetta mask on his face at all times, nobody would know as long as he had a mask of 1000 faces on over top of his physical mask. So the video would just catch someone in a generic "Anonymous" mask. He could project the illusion of a normal face over his physical mask. |
English Norwegian Spanish I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.![]() | |
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| Alarik | Friday, 27. June 2014, 23:33 Post #10 |
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"Papers, Please."
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I like that. And the Guy Fawkes mask is very Vanth-y. Mind if I appropriate it? |
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| Malia | Friday, 27. June 2014, 23:33 Post #11 |
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I'm a Queen
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Be my guest! |
English Norwegian Spanish I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.![]() | |
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| Pidge | Saturday, 28. June 2014, 00:22 Post #12 |
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Sheriff Pro Tempore
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Jane: If you're okay with that, I'm okay with that. If the people who've been threading with me are okay with the retcon, let's just say Pidge has had False Reflection all along. (omg now she can take selfies A WHOLE NEW WORLD HAS OPENED MWAHAHAHA) Though you bring up an interesting topic - selection or heritability for merits and flaws. Adaptation is a nice idea, especially as we do have dramatically changing conditions for unlife since the inception of VtM, but how would a merit actually become more common? Is there some mechanism that might encourage its development? They're supposed to be randomly distributed throughout the population, I think, but in reality they're always up to players' discretion at point buy and sheet creation and some end up much more common for no reason other than utility. (See: anything to do with hearing or seeing things from far away, especially in a LARP.) Malia: I hereby declare officially that, unless otherwise noted, Pidge is always wearing pajamas and fuzzy slippers under her Mask. Why wear actual nice clothes when you could be comfy 24/7? (This is, of course, a corollary to "What's the point of having Mask if you don't use it to look cute?") |
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| Alarik | Saturday, 28. June 2014, 00:25 Post #13 |
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"Papers, Please."
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That is adorable. But also a little freaky if her mask should fail. |
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| Malia | Saturday, 28. June 2014, 00:27 Post #14 |
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I'm a Queen
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Actually it's kind of brilliant. If her mask fails and she looks like she's been brutally beaten with multiple broken bones and such, and she's in soft comfortable pajamas it'll look like someone kidnapped her from a recovery ward. |
English Norwegian Spanish I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.![]() | |
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| Pidge | Saturday, 28. June 2014, 00:51 Post #15 |
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Sheriff Pro Tempore
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Malia: My thoughts exactly. Killing two birds with one stone - she's comfy as hell, and she has a slightly more plausible explanation for existing than "I'm the ugly kind of vampire"! |
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| TheJersy | Saturday, 28. June 2014, 08:59 Post #16 |
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A Fierce Creature of the Night! *RawR!*
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BTW: Is Mask of 1000 faces a no cost / no upkeep thing? Can you just activate it when you wake up and then walk around with it throughout the whole night? |
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| Clarice Harris | Saturday, 28. June 2014, 10:54 Post #17 |
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Sexually abused by a Jew
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This site is listing exact blood costs, so I guess entire Obfuscate is cost-free, like reverse Presence |
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| Sawyer | Saturday, 28. June 2014, 13:13 Post #18 |
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Friendly Neighborhood Vampire
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Mask of A Thousand Faces requires blood to activate, but does not cost blood to upkeep. It can, indeed, fail or have varying degrees of success, particularly if you aren't accustomed to using the power. You might just end up 'forgettable'- people will see your face, but fail to remember any details about it if someone asks. You might end up effectively 'blank', a blur in their memory, and people won't be able to agree on your appearance if question. Or you could suceed completely and appear to others however you envision yourself as appearing. Only if you're very skilled or very lucky could you successfully mask size, gender, or other radical physical differences. Blood can make the difference between a truly human, convincing mask and failure. The chart Orissa posted isn't exactly in line with the core rulebook's take on things, but it's a similar concept. More blood burned will enhance the illusion, but be mindful of the cost and play it accordingly. It's also important to mention that blood and skill aside, a person posing as another will still have to convincingly mimic the mannerisms and behavior of the impersonated. This is a discipline that, contrary to most obfuscate powers, relies on the social abilities and acting skills of the vampire in question. Other obfuscate powers do not require blood. This is in line with the costs in the core rulebook. |
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| Clarice Harris | Saturday, 28. June 2014, 13:59 Post #19 |
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Sexually abused by a Jew
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What I found in V20 rulebook: Mask of 1000 Faces has no blood cost unless desired mask would raise Appearance rating. Then vampire has to spend 1 point of blood for every Appearance level gained. It would mean any Nosferatu willing to socialize would have to spend at least 1-2 blood points, while most of Malkavians and Assamites would do fine without use of blood 3rd edition mentions no blood cost on any Obfuscate power up to level 5 |
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| Alarik | Saturday, 28. June 2014, 14:11 Post #20 |
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"Papers, Please."
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Poor Sawyer. So cute he has to drain half his veins to get his original looks
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