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Game of Thrones; You Win or You Die
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Topic Started: Dec 18 2012, 04:20 PM (2,639 Views)
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Smeagollum
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Jun 16 2014, 01:37 PM
Post #221
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Book 3 spoilers
Spoiler: click to toggle I suspect that, behind the director's words, it was a monetary decision. Since rates are negotiated by season, they could probably save some money if they keep her contained in season 5 as opposed to dishing out for a brief s4 cameo. Or it could even be just to keep s5 interesting. The fan favorite just offed two despicable characters, The Hound died, goodbye to the dragons. They didn't need to pull out the big guns. Meanwhile, book 4 sounds filler and boring (and they're already getting aspects of it out of the way, like Sansa's arc).
If Zombie Cat is so important in the books, and if she has so many fans, I wouldn't flip out about her never showing up. The book scene was pretty standalone so it could easily fit into season 5's premiere (or basically any episode).
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   Always.
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Repo
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Jun 16 2014, 01:41 PM
Post #222
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Forget about the bloody gods and lsiten to what I'm telling you
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- Smeagollum
- Jun 16 2014, 01:37 PM
Book 3 spoilers Spoiler: click to toggle I suspect that, behind the director's words, it was a monetary decision. Since rates are negotiated by season, they could probably save some money if they keep her contained in season 5 as opposed to dishing out for a brief s4 cameo. Or it could even be just to keep s5 interesting. The fan favorite just offed two despicable characters, The Hound died, goodbye to the dragons. They didn't need to pull out the big guns. Meanwhile, book 4 sounds filler and boring (and they're already getting aspects of it out of the way, like Sansa's arc).
If Zombie Cat is so important in the books, and if she has so many fans, I wouldn't flip out about her never showing up. The book scene was pretty standalone so it could easily fit into season 5's premiere (or basically any episode).
Spoiler: click to toggle They knew about Zombie Cat BEFORE THEY STARTED MAKING THE SHOW  Money is not in any way, shape, or form an excuse when that should've been in the initial contract. They should have had the money stuff worked out, especially if they were gonna tease us all season (the reason I am SO MAD) You do realize that book fans are also infuriated about the shit job they did with Shae/Tywin's death? Even if we go on your belief Shae was a cold-blooded murder (which I honestly didn't get), the Tysha stuff  I'm terrified for Season 5. If THAT is the best they can do with the BEST book of the series... good God the worst is gonna be scary. Especially since they have zero material for Sansa now
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I don't want to be a queen. I want to be the queen
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Smeagollum
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Jun 16 2014, 02:31 PM
Post #223
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Spoiler: click to toggle By the time they'd know there would be a season 4, Michelle would have the power to get *paid*, then paid even more to come back for 5. Notice how no show has ever introduced a major character in the last episode of the season. And there's also the theory that they're trying to save some juice so season 5 isn't Fillertopia. Either makes a lot more sense than the theory that the producers are just trying piss in fans' cereal.
I also don't see how they were "teasing us". What does Michelle "being coy as fuck" entail? They're not allowed to discuss show spoilers. Lena's tweets are her business. Cat is barely mentioned in-show, including the infamous changing of the "only Cat" line.
Didn't they basically switch Tysha and Shae's personalities anyway? In the show, Shae genuinely did love Tyrion and Tywin ruined it, just like Tysha. Is there any reason to tell the same story twice except book loyalty?
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   Always.
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Repo
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Jun 16 2014, 03:08 PM
Post #224
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Forget about the bloody gods and lsiten to what I'm telling you
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- Smeagollum
- Jun 16 2014, 02:31 PM
Spoiler: click to toggle By the time they'd know there would be a season 4, Michelle would have the power to get *paid*, then paid even more to come back for 5. Notice how no show has ever introduced a major character in the last episode of the season. And there's also the theory that they're trying to save some juice so season 5 isn't Fillertopia. Either makes a lot more sense than the theory that the producers are just trying piss in fans' cereal.
I also don't see how they were "teasing us". What does Michelle "being coy as fuck" entail? They're not allowed to discuss show spoilers. Lena's tweets are her business. Cat is barely mentioned in-show, including the infamous changing of the "only Cat" line.
Didn't they basically switch Tysha and Shae's personalities anyway? In the show, Shae genuinely did love Tyrion and Tywin ruined it, just like Tysha. Is there any reason to tell the same story twice except book loyalty?
Spoiler: click to toggle These are the same people that keep changing iconic lines like "Only Cat," "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" (Which also impacts the plot SO LOL), and the like just to piss off fans. Not bringing back LSH, especially when they basically called her pointless (And based on casting sides for next season, she IS gonna be cut), doesn't really endear them to me. Let's not forget they also destroyed Stannis' character because they like Dany more. As for Season 5, they have two books to draw from. Both with major climaxes. They have plenty to pull from.
As for budget, I refuse to believe they couldn't spare a little extra money to give fans a scene they've wanted since the Red Wedding.
You weren't following every hint for over a season. Don't have the interviews, but the way she'd act (big grins and such) sure hinted at it. As for Lena, they still knew about it and should've at least had the decency to not act like fans are randomly jumping to conclusions. Cat was also mentioned quite a bit and like 4 times in the recap alone.
... no. Tysha and Shae didn't swap personalities, but Show Shae IS different than her book self As for show Shae, her characterization at the end of Season 3 and in Season 4 makes zero sense. She becomes paranoid, without reason, that Tyrion wants to bang Sansa. Also, what happened to "I love that girl, I would kill for her!" even when she thought Tyrion was snatching her away? She had zero issues saying Sansa's a treasonous bitch at the trial. And since when does "You need to leave King's Landing for your safety! I still want to be with you!" translate to "Fuck off." She goes from loving Tyrion to trying to accusing him of treason to screw him over to trying to stab him with a knife with no proper progression. Made worse by the fact they DID have the perfect answer for her- protect Sansa. The Lannisters could easily claim they had Sansa imprisoned and hidden and that she, too, would be executed if Shae refused to comply. It'd be a logical, natural progression to her show character instead of..... whatever the fuck we got.
As for staying true to the books, probably because big changes have big ripple effects. By changing that scene and context alone, they've ruined: 1) The progression of Jaime and Tyrion's relationship 2) The progression of Jaime and Cersei's relationship due to the above relationship being messed up 3) The progression of Tyrion into becoming a much more dark and bitter character 4) The fact that Tyrion is now obsessed with trying to find Tysha which is a driving motive for him in Dane with Dragons
And all of those have even MORE ripple effects from them, no less. Also, not to sound like a purist, but if you're gonna change something, do it BETTER (like they did with The Hound, Shae back in Season 2, ) That change was NOT an improvement. Changing for the sake of changing, to whitewash a character you enjoy, to dumb something down is bad writing. And the latter 2 are exactly what they did here
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I don't want to be a queen. I want to be the queen
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awesomedinosaur
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Jun 16 2014, 03:18 PM
Post #225
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- AmandaYoung
- Jun 16 2014, 03:08 PM
- Smeagollum
- Jun 16 2014, 02:31 PM
Spoiler: click to toggle By the time they'd know there would be a season 4, Michelle would have the power to get *paid*, then paid even more to come back for 5. Notice how no show has ever introduced a major character in the last episode of the season. And there's also the theory that they're trying to save some juice so season 5 isn't Fillertopia. Either makes a lot more sense than the theory that the producers are just trying piss in fans' cereal.
I also don't see how they were "teasing us". What does Michelle "being coy as fuck" entail? They're not allowed to discuss show spoilers. Lena's tweets are her business. Cat is barely mentioned in-show, including the infamous changing of the "only Cat" line.
Didn't they basically switch Tysha and Shae's personalities anyway? In the show, Shae genuinely did love Tyrion and Tywin ruined it, just like Tysha. Is there any reason to tell the same story twice except book loyalty?
Spoiler: click to toggle These are the same people that keep changing iconic lines like "Only Cat," "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" (Which also impacts the plot SO LOL), and the like just to piss off fans. Not bringing back LSH, especially when they basically called her pointless (And based on casting sides for next season, she IS gonna be cut), doesn't really endear them to me. Let's not forget they also destroyed Stannis' character because they like Dany more. As for Season 5, they have two books to draw from. Both with major climaxes. They have plenty to pull from.
As for budget, I refuse to believe they couldn't spare a little extra money to give fans a scene they've wanted since the Red Wedding.
You weren't following every hint for over a season. Don't have the interviews, but the way she'd act (big grins and such) sure hinted at it. As for Lena, they still knew about it and should've at least had the decency to not act like fans are randomly jumping to conclusions. Cat was also mentioned quite a bit and like 4 times in the recap alone.
... no. Tysha and Shae didn't swap personalities, but Show Shae IS different than her book self As for show Shae, her characterization at the end of Season 3 and in Season 4 makes zero sense. She becomes paranoid, without reason, that Tyrion wants to bang Sansa. Also, what happened to "I love that girl, I would kill for her!" even when she thought Tyrion was snatching her away? She had zero issues saying Sansa's a treasonous bitch at the trial. And since when does "You need to leave King's Landing for your safety! I still want to be with you!" translate to "Fuck off." She goes from loving Tyrion to trying to accusing him of treason to screw him over to trying to stab him with a knife with no proper progression. Made worse by the fact they DID have the perfect answer for her- protect Sansa. The Lannisters could easily claim they had Sansa imprisoned and hidden and that she, too, would be executed if Shae refused to comply. It'd be a logical, natural progression to her show character instead of..... whatever the fuck we got.
As for staying true to the books, probably because big changes have big ripple effects. By changing that scene and context alone, they've ruined: 1) The progression of Jaime and Tyrion's relationship 2) The progression of Jaime and Cersei's relationship due to the above relationship being messed up 3) The progression of Tyrion into becoming a much more dark and bitter character 4) The fact that Tyrion is now obsessed with trying to find Tysha which is a driving motive for him in Dane with Dragons
And all of those have even MORE ripple effects from them, no less. Also, not to sound like a purist, but if you're gonna change something, do it BETTER (like they did with The Hound, Shae back in Season 2, ) That change was NOT an improvement. Changing for the sake of changing, to whitewash a character you enjoy, to dumb something down is bad writing. And the latter 2 are exactly what they did here Couldn't have said it better myself.
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The steel was polished to such a high sheen that she could see her reflection in the breastplate, gazing back at her as if from the bottom of a deep green pond. The face of a drowned woman, Catelyn thought. Can you drown in grief? She turned away sharply, angry with her own frailty. She had no time for the luxury of self-pity.
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Repo
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Jun 16 2014, 03:39 PM
Post #226
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Forget about the bloody gods and lsiten to what I'm telling you
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Also, forgot to bring it up, but I hate how much they've been whitewashing Tyrion. I was willing to let it slide till last night. Uggggh And all the while they keeping throwing Jaime new villainous scenes that were never in the books
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I don't want to be a queen. I want to be the queen
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awesomedinosaur
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Jun 16 2014, 04:07 PM
Post #227
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They whitewashed characters that were supposed to go dark, and tainted a character that was supposed to redeem himself.
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The steel was polished to such a high sheen that she could see her reflection in the breastplate, gazing back at her as if from the bottom of a deep green pond. The face of a drowned woman, Catelyn thought. Can you drown in grief? She turned away sharply, angry with her own frailty. She had no time for the luxury of self-pity.
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Smeagollum
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Jun 16 2014, 04:42 PM
Post #228
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- AmandaYoung
- Jun 16 2014, 03:08 PM
- Smeagollum
- Jun 16 2014, 02:31 PM
Spoiler: click to toggle By the time they'd know there would be a season 4, Michelle would have the power to get *paid*, then paid even more to come back for 5. Notice how no show has ever introduced a major character in the last episode of the season. And there's also the theory that they're trying to save some juice so season 5 isn't Fillertopia. Either makes a lot more sense than the theory that the producers are just trying piss in fans' cereal.
I also don't see how they were "teasing us". What does Michelle "being coy as fuck" entail? They're not allowed to discuss show spoilers. Lena's tweets are her business. Cat is barely mentioned in-show, including the infamous changing of the "only Cat" line.
Didn't they basically switch Tysha and Shae's personalities anyway? In the show, Shae genuinely did love Tyrion and Tywin ruined it, just like Tysha. Is there any reason to tell the same story twice except book loyalty?
Spoiler: click to toggle These are the same people that keep changing iconic lines like "Only Cat," "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" (Which also impacts the plot SO LOL), and the like just to piss off fans. Not bringing back LSH, especially when they basically called her pointless (And based on casting sides for next season, she IS gonna be cut), doesn't really endear them to me. Let's not forget they also destroyed Stannis' character because they like Dany more. As for Season 5, they have two books to draw from. Both with major climaxes. They have plenty to pull from.
As for budget, I refuse to believe they couldn't spare a little extra money to give fans a scene they've wanted since the Red Wedding.
You weren't following every hint for over a season. Don't have the interviews, but the way she'd act (big grins and such) sure hinted at it. As for Lena, they still knew about it and should've at least had the decency to not act like fans are randomly jumping to conclusions. Cat was also mentioned quite a bit and like 4 times in the recap alone.
... no. Tysha and Shae didn't swap personalities, but Show Shae IS different than her book self As for show Shae, her characterization at the end of Season 3 and in Season 4 makes zero sense. She becomes paranoid, without reason, that Tyrion wants to bang Sansa. Also, what happened to "I love that girl, I would kill for her!" even when she thought Tyrion was snatching her away? She had zero issues saying Sansa's a treasonous bitch at the trial. And since when does "You need to leave King's Landing for your safety! I still want to be with you!" translate to "Fuck off." She goes from loving Tyrion to trying to accusing him of treason to screw him over to trying to stab him with a knife with no proper progression. Made worse by the fact they DID have the perfect answer for her- protect Sansa. The Lannisters could easily claim they had Sansa imprisoned and hidden and that she, too, would be executed if Shae refused to comply. It'd be a logical, natural progression to her show character instead of..... whatever the fuck we got.
As for staying true to the books, probably because big changes have big ripple effects. By changing that scene and context alone, they've ruined: 1) The progression of Jaime and Tyrion's relationship 2) The progression of Jaime and Cersei's relationship due to the above relationship being messed up 3) The progression of Tyrion into becoming a much more dark and bitter character 4) The fact that Tyrion is now obsessed with trying to find Tysha which is a driving motive for him in Dane with Dragons
And all of those have even MORE ripple effects from them, no less. Also, not to sound like a purist, but if you're gonna change something, do it BETTER (like they did with The Hound, Shae back in Season 2, ) That change was NOT an improvement. Changing for the sake of changing, to whitewash a character you enjoy, to dumb something down is bad writing. And the latter 2 are exactly what they did here
Spoiler: click to toggle Yes. Changing those lines was done to piss off fans. Sounds legit (or because "your sister" is more specific with all the characters to keep track of, and the second is a hilarious ripoff of "Michael Corleone says hello", either or). And two books with "major climaxes" don't account for the first 9 episodes.
The average episode costs $6 million to make, which is 2-3 times as much as a regular show. Saving money is not an unlikely goal.
"Big grins" is an answer? People grin whenever they have a secret!
Because Tyrion DOES want to bang Sansa, and anyone would be paranoid and jealous because...Sansa. Plus, Shae was never really bright. Being dumped for jailbait, plus probable fear of the Lannisters = her motivation for turning on Tyrion. This is all beside the point, anyway. How did her and Shae not swap roles? Now Tysha IS just a whore who didn't care about Tyrion, while Shae is someone who genuinely loved him and Tywin ruined it. Sounds like the vice versa of what you've told me in the books.
As for improvements, I'd rather have a three dimensional Shae than a three dimensional offscreen wife I never met.
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   Always.
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Repo
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Jun 16 2014, 09:05 PM
Post #229
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Forget about the bloody gods and lsiten to what I'm telling you
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- Smeagollum
- Jun 16 2014, 04:42 PM
- AmandaYoung
- Jun 16 2014, 03:08 PM
- Smeagollum
- Jun 16 2014, 02:31 PM
Spoiler: click to toggle By the time they'd know there would be a season 4, Michelle would have the power to get *paid*, then paid even more to come back for 5. Notice how no show has ever introduced a major character in the last episode of the season. And there's also the theory that they're trying to save some juice so season 5 isn't Fillertopia. Either makes a lot more sense than the theory that the producers are just trying piss in fans' cereal.
I also don't see how they were "teasing us". What does Michelle "being coy as fuck" entail? They're not allowed to discuss show spoilers. Lena's tweets are her business. Cat is barely mentioned in-show, including the infamous changing of the "only Cat" line.
Didn't they basically switch Tysha and Shae's personalities anyway? In the show, Shae genuinely did love Tyrion and Tywin ruined it, just like Tysha. Is there any reason to tell the same story twice except book loyalty?
Spoiler: click to toggle These are the same people that keep changing iconic lines like "Only Cat," "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" (Which also impacts the plot SO LOL), and the like just to piss off fans. Not bringing back LSH, especially when they basically called her pointless (And based on casting sides for next season, she IS gonna be cut), doesn't really endear them to me. Let's not forget they also destroyed Stannis' character because they like Dany more. As for Season 5, they have two books to draw from. Both with major climaxes. They have plenty to pull from.
As for budget, I refuse to believe they couldn't spare a little extra money to give fans a scene they've wanted since the Red Wedding.
You weren't following every hint for over a season. Don't have the interviews, but the way she'd act (big grins and such) sure hinted at it. As for Lena, they still knew about it and should've at least had the decency to not act like fans are randomly jumping to conclusions. Cat was also mentioned quite a bit and like 4 times in the recap alone.
... no. Tysha and Shae didn't swap personalities, but Show Shae IS different than her book self As for show Shae, her characterization at the end of Season 3 and in Season 4 makes zero sense. She becomes paranoid, without reason, that Tyrion wants to bang Sansa. Also, what happened to "I love that girl, I would kill for her!" even when she thought Tyrion was snatching her away? She had zero issues saying Sansa's a treasonous bitch at the trial. And since when does "You need to leave King's Landing for your safety! I still want to be with you!" translate to "Fuck off." She goes from loving Tyrion to trying to accusing him of treason to screw him over to trying to stab him with a knife with no proper progression. Made worse by the fact they DID have the perfect answer for her- protect Sansa. The Lannisters could easily claim they had Sansa imprisoned and hidden and that she, too, would be executed if Shae refused to comply. It'd be a logical, natural progression to her show character instead of..... whatever the fuck we got.
As for staying true to the books, probably because big changes have big ripple effects. By changing that scene and context alone, they've ruined: 1) The progression of Jaime and Tyrion's relationship 2) The progression of Jaime and Cersei's relationship due to the above relationship being messed up 3) The progression of Tyrion into becoming a much more dark and bitter character 4) The fact that Tyrion is now obsessed with trying to find Tysha which is a driving motive for him in Dane with Dragons
And all of those have even MORE ripple effects from them, no less. Also, not to sound like a purist, but if you're gonna change something, do it BETTER (like they did with The Hound, Shae back in Season 2, ) That change was NOT an improvement. Changing for the sake of changing, to whitewash a character you enjoy, to dumb something down is bad writing. And the latter 2 are exactly what they did here
Spoiler: click to toggle Yes. Changing those lines was done to piss off fans. Sounds legit (or because "your sister" is more specific with all the characters to keep track of, and the second is a hilarious ripoff of "Michael Corleone says hello", either or). And two books with "major climaxes" don't account for the first 9 episodes.
The average episode costs $6 million to make, which is 2-3 times as much as a regular show. Saving money is not an unlikely goal.
"Big grins" is an answer? People grin whenever they have a secret!
Because Tyrion DOES want to bang Sansa, and anyone would be paranoid and jealous because...Sansa. Plus, Shae was never really bright. Being dumped for jailbait, plus probable fear of the Lannisters = her motivation for turning on Tyrion. This is all beside the point, anyway. How did her and Shae not swap roles? Now Tysha IS just a whore who didn't care about Tyrion, while Shae is someone who genuinely loved him and Tywin ruined it. Sounds like the vice versa of what you've told me in the books.
As for improvements, I'd rather have a three dimensional Shae than a three dimensional offscreen wife I never met.
Spoiler: click to toggle The Jaime one was NOT changed to avoid vague similarities to a line I've never heard of seeing as it was changed to "The Lannisters send their regards." There was seriously no good reason for it, especially seeing as it is hugely plot important for it to be "Jaime Lannister" to "The Lannisters." That was changing a line for the sake of changing it. And seeing as the showrunners will gleefully rearrange events, not worried. Especially since Mycerella should be having a very big scene (except wait... the three other people involved have ALL BEEN CUT based on casting calls. You have a book FULL of filler.... and you cut the people involved with one of the scenes that is in NO way filler? Idiots) I really doubt Michelle would demand all that much money to come back for ONE day. Also, he never brought up money. I said how she'd act, not that it's an answer. She was DEFINITELY acting like she knew something here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je2Ws5PJ7QM&feature=youtu.be&t=%205m53sAlso, she's repeatedly said she's very excited about the idea of playing Lady Stoneheart. And in interviews when she's been asked (which again, I don't have links to), she sure hinted at it. Also, Lena. My Stone Heart. Awesome, so why'd she decide to sell out Sansa, the girl she loves and would kill for (Shae's words, not mine. And this is after she becomes paranoid) She also was never DUMPED for jailbait, she was sent out of the city for her own safety (Which Tyrion tried to explain only 20 times to get drowned out with "YOU WANNA FUCK SANSA"  As for not swapping roles, for a start, Jaime had nothing to do with Shea. Secondly, part of the reason Tysha haunts Tyrion so much is he LET her get gangraped and leave and had been looking at her as a manipulative whore for years when she's an innocent who did absolutely nothing wrong. Shea sold him out and tried to murder him with a knife. Also, the entire reason he started to develop an attraction to Shea was BECAUSE of Tysha in the first place I don't really understand how you can even debate Tysha vs. Shae and their roles seeing as you even said you had to re-read the wiki AND my PM at least 3 times to even understand who Tysha was because the show did such a shit job with an important backstory  Can't we get three dimensional both? Also, while I couldn't give less fucks about Jojen, I do think offing a potentially major character before his time in the books comes across kinda short sighted Wow. I just found out they're recasting Mycerella despite-
A) The girl BEGGING to let her keep the role B) The fact her actress is perfectly fine in said role
Not only that, but they're looking for a YOUNGER ACTRESS which will make her younger than Tommen which fucks up her storyline next season
Edited by Repo, Jun 16 2014, 09:23 PM.
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I don't want to be a queen. I want to be the queen
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lorelei
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Jun 17 2014, 03:48 AM
Post #230
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- Jun 15 2014, 09:15 PM
Also, there's was SUPPOSED TO BE MORE. They cut out almost every. Single. TWIST. Ugh. I literally want to give it a 1/10 but I can't There was supposed to be more indeed.
Spoiler: click to toggle Tyrion was supposed to make jaime believe he had actually killed Joffrey for real, in order to hurt him after sordid revelations from Jaime. This would have done a GREAT climax in the very last pictures.
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If you crush the life out of me I'd kiss you with my dying breath ...
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