Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Add Reply
Why 50% MSSjin Goku > SSjinG3 Trunks
Topic Started: Jun 7 2015, 11:25:02 AM (1,786 Views)
Lord Beerus
Member Avatar


SSJ Grade 3 Trunks was stronger than Perfect Cell, as admitted by Cell himself, whereas MSSJ Goku wasn't, as admitted by Goku himself. So...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Demon Saiyan
Member Avatar
Super Elite

Cell admitted Trunks surpass his warm up state.
Goku admitted FP Cell is stronger than him.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lightsworn
Member Avatar


Lord Beerus
Jun 7 2015, 06:14:46 PM
SSJ Grade 3 Trunks was stronger than Perfect Cell, as admitted by Cell himself, whereas MSSJ Goku wasn't, as admitted by Goku himself. So...
Incorrect. Trunks was stated to be stronger than a suppressed version of Cell. Goku was stated to be weaker than Cell at full power.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pakl
Member Avatar


SSJ Vegetto
Jun 7 2015, 12:45:38 PM
Grade 3 Trunks is definitely stronger than 50% Goku
I like your way of explaining yourself and ignoring evidence

You forget 50% MSSjin Goku >> Warmed Up/10 days MSSjin Goku ~ Warmed Up Cell
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pakl
Member Avatar


Whipedkillsmiled
Jun 7 2015, 12:48:04 PM
Guliver
Jun 7 2015, 12:37:27 PM
Whipedkillsmiled
Jun 7 2015, 12:06:12 PM
-wen you said that was the same cell that fought trunks and Vegeta. Theres no indication of that anywhere. Also cell can sense Ki there's no reason he's sense Goku and be more aware.
-Round eyes weren't made to indicate natural SSJ they were made to represent a calm and sustained or happy mood which is an achievement of MSSJ it keeps the mood of the controller normal it's not like when they power up they loose their MSSJ nature Plus if they had mad eyes all the time it would look like they're serious 24/7 which is the nature of normal SSJ.
-"natural" Goku saying he's stronger than ssjg2 Vegeta is most likely refering to his further power ups because again Vegeta can sense Ki and didn't admit his inferiority until Goku powered up to 50%
-Further more SSJG3 proved to be useless and trunks was shocked that power can be attained without sacrificing speed
Cell was never shown power up so the burden of proof on yours.. He stayed the same power

Wrong, the round eyes is only there when they were resting... When they power up they change the look of their eyes.. Even Trunks pointed out when Goku powered up vs Cell

Not really.. Toriyama seemed to be very mysterious at that point and only the strongest level counted.. For example Goku saying Cell would rip him apart despite being way stronger than his warmed up state in his full power...

Trunks never saw Goku powering up he only sensed him... It's clear % MSSjin Goku is the strongest and I lke how you ignoed the other proof
Because they're not warming up when in power they aren't playing around anymore they're serious. You can't really just say wrong like that mainly because MSSJ no power up isn't the only time people have rounded eyes.
Toryama nothing Vegeta can sense Ki Vegeta can sense Ki if he knew Goku was stronger he's admit it before 50%. Because Even korin himself said he can't beat him yet and Goku also can tell he has way more in store he was proven right after cell powered up. Goku was inferior and admittedly said he could not beat him unsure he was even using full power.
-Yes he sensed him. Remind me why the ground shakes randomly? Because someone is just standing there. Or why Ki just starts shooting up? It doesn't take a genius to know someone is powering up.
Movie 8 Goku is different from cell arc Goku
Cell could have easily sensed Goku's power and been like.. Hm this totally surpasses this state I should stay like this anyway? Yeah right
What? Cell was fighting at the same level he was vs Trunks and Vegeta and that's his waming up state and they were said to be warming up before they powered up

Chapter: 397 (DBZ 203), P14.4
Context: after fighting with Goku for awhile
Cell: “That should be enough warm-up exercise…”

Also, there is also this part which proves Goku was using much less than half of his power

Posted Image

Vegeta thinks Goku's max is his 50% which is evident by the fact he claims he is going to beat Cell after his second RoSaT training and remember that CG SSjin Vegeta is closer to 50% MSSjin Goku than Goku's max

Chapter: 395 (DBZ 201), P13.5
Context: after Goku says he’ll fight first Cell first
Vegeta: “Do what you want. Either way, I’ll be the one to finish this…”

And yet he still expects Goku to show his true power which he thinks it's his 50%...

Chapter: 398 (DBZ 204), P6.3-4
Context: after Goku unveils his full power
Vegeta: “So this is his true power?...”
Trunks: “Amazing…Goku really is absolutely amazing…”

Notice how Vegeta says it with the question mark? He didn't expect Goku to be more than half of his power.. That's another proof

I guess you didn't see this part

Posted Image

Notice Trunks's statement? That's proof of the round eyes for Goku's resting state

Vegeta not sensing ki is not what the plot shows here... He fought Cell and still could not tell if he was stronger after his kick got tanked... The same Goku who you say Vegeta didn't admit was stronger thn him was the same one who fought Cell. That's shown in the design

You are also using in univese explaination.. At that point of time when something is not known to the fans, it's all about out of universe logic... Goku's true power is at least 3x stronger than Cell's warmed up state so why would he think Cell would beat him easily?

I never said Trunks never sensed him but that him being surprised because of Goku not having to use the grade is the rason for his shock is an excuse because he didn't saw him.. Their is a difference between sensing and seeing. Trunks being shocked is proof of Goku's superiority

M8 Goku design shows Goku when he fought Cell before powering up and when he existed the RoSaT and they are the same level which proves Initial Post RoSaT Goku and Warming Up Goku are the same

I don't understand your English
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pakl
Member Avatar


Dioxide
Jun 7 2015, 01:02:37 PM
Only SSJ Goku at full power was state to be the strongest.

Chapter: 398 (DBZ 204)
P7.1-3

Context: everyone gawking at Goku’s full power
Kuririn: “This really is an incredible ki…! It figures he’d outstrip everyone.”
Krillin was talking at the current time after everyone existed the RoSaT again.. This statement basically says that Gou is the strongest of the CG fighters except Gohan

Plus, Krillin was not even on the Look Out when Goku powered up

Kyo, I don't understand your question
Edited by Pakl, Jun 10 2015, 10:26:23 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DBZAOTA482
Member Avatar
Ginyu Tokusentai Member

You're pretty determined at lowballing Grade 3 Trunks, ain't ya?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pakl
Member Avatar


DBZAOTA482
Jun 10 2015, 11:26:07 AM
You're pretty determined at lowballing Grade 3 Trunks, ain't ya?
Just presenting the facts
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dagon
Member Avatar


At that point in time Cell's power he displayed against Trunks was thought to be his full power. Goku powers up to 50% in front of Korin and Korin says that Goku isn't strong enough to beat Cell. Cell was not noted to have powered up since then when he fought Goku at the Cell Games.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pakl
Member Avatar


Dagon
Jun 10 2015, 11:56:38 AM
At that point in time Cell's power he displayed against Trunks was thought to be his full power. Goku powers up to 50% in front of Korin and Korin says that Goku isn't strong enough to beat Cell. Cell was not noted to have powered up since then when he fought Goku at the Cell Games.
Korrin knew Cell was much stronger than that and Goku just powered p to show him his power but his basic power when he existed the RoSaT until he fought Cell was his resting state

Why do you keep denying it when I showed all the evidence and the freaking concept art??
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kyo
Member Avatar


Guliver
Jun 10 2015, 10:23:41 AM
Kyo, I don't understand your question
I was beating around the bush. But to get it out of the way, SSJG2 Vegeta < Warm Up Cell, right? How can you claim that Initial/Resting/Natural/whatever you wanna call it SSJ Goku was the one that fought Cell, knowing this fact?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dagon
Member Avatar


Guliver
Jun 10 2015, 01:04:44 PM
Korrin knew Cell was much stronger than that and Goku just powered p to show him his power but his basic power when he existed the RoSaT until he fought Cell was his resting state

Why do you keep denying it when I showed all the evidence and the freaking concept art??
Everyone at the Cell Games was surprised when Goku and Cell powered up again. The first warm-up round was thought to be Goku's full power by the onlookers. If he was a lower level than at Korin's tower then someone would have said so. Prove that Korin knew Cell was more powerful than what he was vs Trunks.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pakl
Member Avatar


Kyo
Jun 10 2015, 01:06:48 PM
Guliver
Jun 10 2015, 10:23:41 AM
Kyo, I don't understand your question
I was beating around the bush. But to get it out of the way, SSJG2 Vegeta < Warm Up Cell, right? How can you claim that Initial/Resting/Natural/whatever you wanna call it SSJ Goku was the one that fought Cell, knowing this fact?
Goku existed the RoSaT after mastering the SSjin state.. You can see how he looked... He had the round eyes and he only poweed up vs Korrin to half power so he can test how strong he was

He then powers down back to his basic state (Resting MSSjin you can call it) and stays like this until the CG and uses this form vs Cell

I post the concept art for Goku showing him when he warmed up vs Cell and when he existed the RoSaT before powering up vs Korrin hence Initial Post RoSaT MSSjin Goku and Warmed Up Goku are the same power... That's the only thing he used before the CG

50% MSSjin Goku >> Warming Up Goku/10 days MSSjin Goku ~ Warming Up Cell >> SSjinG 2 Vegeta

SSjinG 3 Trunks is stronger than Warmed Up Cell but not by much like the massive power up Goku did

50% MSSjin Goku > SSjinG 3 Trunks is settled
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pakl
Member Avatar


Dagon
Jun 10 2015, 01:14:56 PM
Guliver
Jun 10 2015, 01:04:44 PM
Korrin knew Cell was much stronger than that and Goku just powered p to show him his power but his basic power when he existed the RoSaT until he fought Cell was his resting state

Why do you keep denying it when I showed all the evidence and the freaking concept art??
Everyone at the Cell Games was surprised when Goku and Cell powered up again. The first warm-up round was thought to be Goku's full power by the onlookers. If he was a lower level than at Korin's tower then someone would have said so. Prove that Korin knew Cell was more powerful than what he was vs Trunks.
Please look at post #25 which already debunks you claim about Goku's power vs Cell

They were surprised because Goku was stronger than they thought.. That proves Goku used less power vs Cell because they expected him to power up

Chapter: 390 (DBZ 196), P13.5-6, P14.1-3
Context: After Goku checks out perfect Cell's power
Goku: “…Frankly, I didn’t think he would get so incredible…I don’t have any idea just how strong he could get if he felt like it…I won’t know unless I try, but I think I probably can’t win the way I am now.”

The concept art shows Goku when he was warming up vs Cell and Goku when he existed the RoSaT hence they are the same.. That's not debatable... Goku just powered up to 50% but his basic power until the CG wasthe same level he was at when he existed the RoSaT.. He was waming up v Cell and had no aura just like in the 10 days
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kyo
Member Avatar


Guliver
 
uses this form vs Cell
Alright, this is the problem here. This is impossible unless you're suggesting that SSJG2 Vegeta can do the same.

Goku's eyes aren't even round when he starts fighting Cell.
(Forgive me for the poor quality, but http://comic.dragonballcn.com/ decided to fuck itself when I found the right pages)

http://www.goodmanga.net/dragon_ball/chapter/398/5
http://www.goodmanga.net/dragon_ball/chapter/398/6

You could say they're a bit more narrow when he powers up at Karin's, but that's to be expected; people always put on a face like that in the process of powering up, and it's barely a noteworthy difference anyshoe.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Fire Lord
Member Avatar


Dagon
Jun 10 2015, 11:56:38 AM
At that point in time Cell's power he displayed against Trunks was thought to be his full power. Goku powers up to 50% in front of Korin and Korin says that Goku isn't strong enough to beat Cell. Cell was not noted to have powered up since then when he fought Goku at the Cell Games.
This .....


I guess the cahin is this


cell full power>100% goku >ssjg3 trunks>suppressed cell>50% goku
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Whipedkillsmiled
Member Avatar
Super Elite

Im not gunna quote your thing cuz its too long so..its never said his VS trunks state is his warm up state.I can say the same and claim ur making excuses
I never said they weren't warming up I said when they're powered up they are NOT warming up hence they do not have calm rounded eyes.
The look in his eyes changed... is that it so when you go serious your eyes stay happy and calm? No they change with your mood.
Yes Vegeta thought Goku's max was 50% what does that have to do with anything? He said show me your strength. Thats not future tense that's present so he's obviously talking bout that moment.
Trunks being surmised with the whole gaining strength without loosing speed thing is not an excuse since it was obvious Goku had trained in a totally different way. Which was mastering SSJ.
Your talking like 50% is a big deal a x2 difference his huge and stomp worthy 50% can totally be warm up. Whatchu think he's gunna use only 25% this is a warm up not a joke
Edited by Whipedkillsmiled, Jun 10 2015, 02:37:02 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pakl
Member Avatar


Kyo
Jun 10 2015, 01:51:32 PM
Guliver
 
uses this form vs Cell
Alright, this is the problem here. This is impossible unless you're suggesting that SSJG2 Vegeta can do the same.

Goku's eyes aren't even round when he starts fighting Cell.
(Forgive me for the poor quality, but http://comic.dragonballcn.com/ decided to fuck itself when I found the right pages)

http://www.goodmanga.net/dragon_ball/chapter/398/5
http://www.goodmanga.net/dragon_ball/chapter/398/6

You could say they're a bit more narrow when he powers up at Karin's, but that's to be expected; people always put on a face like that in the process of powering up, and it's barely a noteworthy difference anyshoe.
What? Goku's eyes are round when he starts fighting Cell... Can't you see it? After powering up his eyes become more narrowed

Trunks also says that Goku's eyes changed when he powered up... That's a clear fact stated by him and not an opinion...

You keep ignorng the fact Goku's art shows him when he wamed up vs Cell and when he existed the RoSaT hence proving they are the same... Furthermore, nothing even says Goku used an higher level.. He just powered up vs Korrin and went back to his basic state which is the same state he was when he came out of the RoSaT and the same as he was resting... Plus, the fact Vegeta knows Goku is not serious when he starts fighting Cell and he thinks his max is half of his power

I explained it in post #25 so read it

I don't understand why it's so hard to understand that Goku was just owering up vs Korrin but uses the same basic level he was at when he exsited the RoSaT until he powered up vs Cell.. It's basically shown...

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pakl
Member Avatar


Pointer
Jun 10 2015, 02:20:38 PM
Dagon
Jun 10 2015, 11:56:38 AM
At that point in time Cell's power he displayed against Trunks was thought to be his full power. Goku powers up to 50% in front of Korin and Korin says that Goku isn't strong enough to beat Cell. Cell was not noted to have powered up since then when he fought Goku at the Cell Games.
This .....


I guess the cahin is this


cell full power>100% goku >ssjg3 trunks>suppressed cell>50% goku
No it's not

For starters, Warmed Up Cell and Goku were equals and Goku was just fighting at his basic power which is the same state Piccolo explains about when Goku and Vegeta were SSjins but yet still calm..

I don't understand why you keep ignoring the freaking shown concept art and the state Goku was at when he exsited the RoSaT
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kyo
Member Avatar


I see what you're saying, but they're not really round. Definitely not like they are here. And, as I said, if you'd like to speak of the difference between kind-of-narrow-kind-of-not and narrow (nowhere did I deny that there was a difference; if you'd reread my post, I explicitly acknowledge it), do note that Goku was powering up for the entirety of his 50% display.
Quote:
 
Plus, the fact Vegeta knows Goku is not serious
Prior to the fight he's thinking to himself something like "Show us your power, Kakorot," so he already knows that Goku on Karin's ≠ full power Goku. Goku could be 50% and there'd be no contradiction.

I repeat (you've yet to address this point so I can assume you've no counter?), unless you want me to believe that SSJG2 Vegeta would beat Warm Up Cell, you've got some explaining to do as to how Resting Goku puts up the fight he does.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Join the millions that use us for their forum communities. Create your own forum today.
Learn More · Register Now
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Dragon Ball Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Theme Designed by McKee91 and Lout of ZNR