| Why 50% MSSjin Goku > SSjinG3 Trunks | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 7 2015, 11:25:02 AM (1,786 Views) | |
| Lord Beerus | Jun 7 2015, 06:14:46 PM Post #21 |
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SSJ Grade 3 Trunks was stronger than Perfect Cell, as admitted by Cell himself, whereas MSSJ Goku wasn't, as admitted by Goku himself. So... |
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| Demon Saiyan | Jun 7 2015, 07:36:48 PM Post #22 |
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Super Elite
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Cell admitted Trunks surpass his warm up state. Goku admitted FP Cell is stronger than him. |
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| Lightsworn | Jun 7 2015, 08:17:04 PM Post #23 |
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Incorrect. Trunks was stated to be stronger than a suppressed version of Cell. Goku was stated to be weaker than Cell at full power. |
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| Pakl | Jun 10 2015, 09:52:39 AM Post #24 |
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I like your way of explaining yourself and ignoring evidence You forget 50% MSSjin Goku >> Warmed Up/10 days MSSjin Goku ~ Warmed Up Cell |
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| Pakl | Jun 10 2015, 10:21:14 AM Post #25 |
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What? Cell was fighting at the same level he was vs Trunks and Vegeta and that's his waming up state and they were said to be warming up before they powered up Chapter: 397 (DBZ 203), P14.4 Context: after fighting with Goku for awhile Cell: “That should be enough warm-up exercise…” Also, there is also this part which proves Goku was using much less than half of his power ![]() Vegeta thinks Goku's max is his 50% which is evident by the fact he claims he is going to beat Cell after his second RoSaT training and remember that CG SSjin Vegeta is closer to 50% MSSjin Goku than Goku's max Chapter: 395 (DBZ 201), P13.5 Context: after Goku says he’ll fight first Cell first Vegeta: “Do what you want. Either way, I’ll be the one to finish this…” And yet he still expects Goku to show his true power which he thinks it's his 50%... Chapter: 398 (DBZ 204), P6.3-4 Context: after Goku unveils his full power Vegeta: “So this is his true power?...” Trunks: “Amazing…Goku really is absolutely amazing…” Notice how Vegeta says it with the question mark? He didn't expect Goku to be more than half of his power.. That's another proof I guess you didn't see this part ![]() Notice Trunks's statement? That's proof of the round eyes for Goku's resting state Vegeta not sensing ki is not what the plot shows here... He fought Cell and still could not tell if he was stronger after his kick got tanked... The same Goku who you say Vegeta didn't admit was stronger thn him was the same one who fought Cell. That's shown in the design You are also using in univese explaination.. At that point of time when something is not known to the fans, it's all about out of universe logic... Goku's true power is at least 3x stronger than Cell's warmed up state so why would he think Cell would beat him easily? I never said Trunks never sensed him but that him being surprised because of Goku not having to use the grade is the rason for his shock is an excuse because he didn't saw him.. Their is a difference between sensing and seeing. Trunks being shocked is proof of Goku's superiority M8 Goku design shows Goku when he fought Cell before powering up and when he existed the RoSaT and they are the same level which proves Initial Post RoSaT Goku and Warming Up Goku are the same I don't understand your English |
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| Pakl | Jun 10 2015, 10:23:41 AM Post #26 |
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Krillin was talking at the current time after everyone existed the RoSaT again.. This statement basically says that Gou is the strongest of the CG fighters except Gohan Plus, Krillin was not even on the Look Out when Goku powered up Kyo, I don't understand your question Edited by Pakl, Jun 10 2015, 10:26:23 AM.
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| DBZAOTA482 | Jun 10 2015, 11:26:07 AM Post #27 |
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Ginyu Tokusentai Member
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You're pretty determined at lowballing Grade 3 Trunks, ain't ya? |
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| Pakl | Jun 10 2015, 11:33:51 AM Post #28 |
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Just presenting the facts |
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| Dagon | Jun 10 2015, 11:56:38 AM Post #29 |
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At that point in time Cell's power he displayed against Trunks was thought to be his full power. Goku powers up to 50% in front of Korin and Korin says that Goku isn't strong enough to beat Cell. Cell was not noted to have powered up since then when he fought Goku at the Cell Games. |
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| Pakl | Jun 10 2015, 01:04:44 PM Post #30 |
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Korrin knew Cell was much stronger than that and Goku just powered p to show him his power but his basic power when he existed the RoSaT until he fought Cell was his resting state Why do you keep denying it when I showed all the evidence and the freaking concept art?? |
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| Kyo | Jun 10 2015, 01:06:48 PM Post #31 |
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I was beating around the bush. But to get it out of the way, SSJG2 Vegeta < Warm Up Cell, right? How can you claim that Initial/Resting/Natural/whatever you wanna call it SSJ Goku was the one that fought Cell, knowing this fact? |
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| Dagon | Jun 10 2015, 01:14:56 PM Post #32 |
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Everyone at the Cell Games was surprised when Goku and Cell powered up again. The first warm-up round was thought to be Goku's full power by the onlookers. If he was a lower level than at Korin's tower then someone would have said so. Prove that Korin knew Cell was more powerful than what he was vs Trunks. |
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| Pakl | Jun 10 2015, 01:15:38 PM Post #33 |
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Goku existed the RoSaT after mastering the SSjin state.. You can see how he looked... He had the round eyes and he only poweed up vs Korrin to half power so he can test how strong he was He then powers down back to his basic state (Resting MSSjin you can call it) and stays like this until the CG and uses this form vs Cell I post the concept art for Goku showing him when he warmed up vs Cell and when he existed the RoSaT before powering up vs Korrin hence Initial Post RoSaT MSSjin Goku and Warmed Up Goku are the same power... That's the only thing he used before the CG 50% MSSjin Goku >> Warming Up Goku/10 days MSSjin Goku ~ Warming Up Cell >> SSjinG 2 Vegeta SSjinG 3 Trunks is stronger than Warmed Up Cell but not by much like the massive power up Goku did 50% MSSjin Goku > SSjinG 3 Trunks is settled |
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| Pakl | Jun 10 2015, 01:26:24 PM Post #34 |
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Please look at post #25 which already debunks you claim about Goku's power vs Cell They were surprised because Goku was stronger than they thought.. That proves Goku used less power vs Cell because they expected him to power up Chapter: 390 (DBZ 196), P13.5-6, P14.1-3 Context: After Goku checks out perfect Cell's power Goku: “…Frankly, I didn’t think he would get so incredible…I don’t have any idea just how strong he could get if he felt like it…I won’t know unless I try, but I think I probably can’t win the way I am now.” The concept art shows Goku when he was warming up vs Cell and Goku when he existed the RoSaT hence they are the same.. That's not debatable... Goku just powered up to 50% but his basic power until the CG wasthe same level he was at when he existed the RoSaT.. He was waming up v Cell and had no aura just like in the 10 days |
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| Kyo | Jun 10 2015, 01:51:32 PM Post #35 |
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Alright, this is the problem here. This is impossible unless you're suggesting that SSJG2 Vegeta can do the same. Goku's eyes aren't even round when he starts fighting Cell. (Forgive me for the poor quality, but http://comic.dragonballcn.com/ decided to fuck itself when I found the right pages) http://www.goodmanga.net/dragon_ball/chapter/398/5 http://www.goodmanga.net/dragon_ball/chapter/398/6 You could say they're a bit more narrow when he powers up at Karin's, but that's to be expected; people always put on a face like that in the process of powering up, and it's barely a noteworthy difference anyshoe. |
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| Fire Lord | Jun 10 2015, 02:20:38 PM Post #36 |
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This ..... I guess the cahin is this cell full power>100% goku >ssjg3 trunks>suppressed cell>50% goku |
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| Whipedkillsmiled | Jun 10 2015, 02:29:46 PM Post #37 |
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Super Elite
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Im not gunna quote your thing cuz its too long so..its never said his VS trunks state is his warm up state.I can say the same and claim ur making excuses I never said they weren't warming up I said when they're powered up they are NOT warming up hence they do not have calm rounded eyes. The look in his eyes changed... is that it so when you go serious your eyes stay happy and calm? No they change with your mood. Yes Vegeta thought Goku's max was 50% what does that have to do with anything? He said show me your strength. Thats not future tense that's present so he's obviously talking bout that moment. Trunks being surmised with the whole gaining strength without loosing speed thing is not an excuse since it was obvious Goku had trained in a totally different way. Which was mastering SSJ. Your talking like 50% is a big deal a x2 difference his huge and stomp worthy 50% can totally be warm up. Whatchu think he's gunna use only 25% this is a warm up not a joke Edited by Whipedkillsmiled, Jun 10 2015, 02:37:02 PM.
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| Pakl | Jun 10 2015, 02:59:28 PM Post #38 |
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What? Goku's eyes are round when he starts fighting Cell... Can't you see it? After powering up his eyes become more narrowed Trunks also says that Goku's eyes changed when he powered up... That's a clear fact stated by him and not an opinion... You keep ignorng the fact Goku's art shows him when he wamed up vs Cell and when he existed the RoSaT hence proving they are the same... Furthermore, nothing even says Goku used an higher level.. He just powered up vs Korrin and went back to his basic state which is the same state he was when he came out of the RoSaT and the same as he was resting... Plus, the fact Vegeta knows Goku is not serious when he starts fighting Cell and he thinks his max is half of his power I explained it in post #25 so read it I don't understand why it's so hard to understand that Goku was just owering up vs Korrin but uses the same basic level he was at when he exsited the RoSaT until he powered up vs Cell.. It's basically shown... |
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| Pakl | Jun 10 2015, 03:01:58 PM Post #39 |
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No it's not For starters, Warmed Up Cell and Goku were equals and Goku was just fighting at his basic power which is the same state Piccolo explains about when Goku and Vegeta were SSjins but yet still calm.. I don't understand why you keep ignoring the freaking shown concept art and the state Goku was at when he exsited the RoSaT |
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| Kyo | Jun 10 2015, 03:06:15 PM Post #40 |
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I see what you're saying, but they're not really round. Definitely not like they are here. And, as I said, if you'd like to speak of the difference between kind-of-narrow-kind-of-not and narrow (nowhere did I deny that there was a difference; if you'd reread my post, I explicitly acknowledge it), do note that Goku was powering up for the entirety of his 50% display.Prior to the fight he's thinking to himself something like "Show us your power, Kakorot," so he already knows that Goku on Karin's ≠ full power Goku. Goku could be 50% and there'd be no contradiction. I repeat (you've yet to address this point so I can assume you've no counter?), unless you want me to believe that SSJG2 Vegeta would beat Warm Up Cell, you've got some explaining to do as to how Resting Goku puts up the fight he does. |
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