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Why 50% MSSjin Goku > SSjinG3 Trunks
Topic Started: Jun 7 2015, 11:25:02 AM (1,784 Views)
Demon Saiyan
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I don't think Warm Up Goku is the same who walk out of Rosat. Everyone couldn't tell that Goku is weaker than Cell immediately which imply that they know that Goku was supressed when he walked out.

Vegeta even support this as well. If he knew Goku is equal to Warm Up Cell who tanked Vegeta's kicked, then he should know that Goku is already stronger him instead he need to ask Goku if he's stronger or not.
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Pakl
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It's about the plot

It's possible they didn't seem fearsome because of their natural look.. It looked like their base which is why they lacked aura

Goku while warming up looks the ame and uses the same natural state.. He is never shown powering up

Also why do you keep ignorng the design for M8 Goku which shows him from his warm up and from the Look Out.. They are basically equals

Also, Cell saw Goku after he eisted the RoSaT and he never commented he was different when the CG began.. Resting Goku is his basic power the entire time lol
Edited by Pakl, Jun 11 2015, 02:19:12 PM.
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Demon Saiyan
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Before I refute this , I just want to inform you and the others who read this that when I say resting state which mean he's normal form and warm up state which he used against Cell.

Quote:
 
It's possible they didn't seem fearsome because of their natural look.. It looked like their base which is why they lacked aura[]

Because they were in their resting state.

Quote:
 
Goku while warming up looks the ame and uses the same natural state.. He is never shown powering up

Its true he didn't power up. But that doesn't mean he's stay in his warm up state. He can be anywhere below 50% but he could be in his resting state which makes sense why Vegeta need to ask Goku if he's weaker or not.

Quote:
 
Also why do you keep ignorng the design for M8 Goku which shows him from his warm up and from the Look Out.. They are basically equals.

They're same so what? They're equal.

Quote:
 
Also, Cell saw Goku after he eisted the RoSaT and he never commented he was different when the CG began.. Resting Goku is his basic power the entire time lol[]

Why comment something if he's expected him to much more stronger than that?
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Pakl
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You basically say you agree they are equals? I don't understand your point

Natural MSSjin Goku is only one level which is below 50% and in par with Cell
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Demon Saiyan
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Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:13:47 PM
You basically say you agree they are equals? I don't understand your point

Natural MSSjin Goku is only one level which is below 50% and in par with Cell
Here's my question.

If Goku is a warm up state then how come Vegeta didn't notice that Goku is stronger than him? It doesn't make any sense.

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Lightsworn
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[
Edited by Lightsworn, Jun 11 2015, 05:26:46 PM.
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Pakl
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Saiyan
Jun 11 2015, 04:29:53 PM
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:13:47 PM
You basically say you agree they are equals? I don't understand your point

Natural MSSjin Goku is only one level which is below 50% and in par with Cell
Here's my question.

If Goku is a warm up state then how come Vegeta didn't notice that Goku is stronger than him? It doesn't make any sense.

I already explained it.. Vegeta doesn't rely on ki.. He didn't sense Freeza was stronger than him and that Cell was stronger until he got defeated

Furthermore, everyone knew Goku was suppresed vs Cell and they thought his max was half his power
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Demon Saiyan
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Guliver
Jun 12 2015, 06:12:43 AM
Saiyan
Jun 11 2015, 04:29:53 PM
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:13:47 PM
You basically say you agree they are equals? I don't understand your point

Natural MSSjin Goku is only one level which is below 50% and in par with Cell
Here's my question.

If Goku is a warm up state then how come Vegeta didn't notice that Goku is stronger than him? It doesn't make any sense.

I already explained it.. Vegeta doesn't rely on ki.. He didn't sense Freeza was stronger than him and that Cell was stronger until he got defeated

Furthermore, everyone knew Goku was suppresed vs Cell and they thought his max was half his power
Since Vegeta is a bad judgement. Then how about everyone? You said that Goku was in warm up state which rival Warm Up Cell who tanked Vegeta's kicked. How come they didn't notice that Goku is still weaker than Trunks like "Hey, Goku is weaker than me! He's just as strong Cell who I surpassed!" But they didnt since Goku was supressed like his base form.

When Goku and Gohan walk out of the Rosat. Everyone were shocked that Goku seems to be natural in SSJ form like in his base form which implied that he's supressed.

Goku doesn't need to stay in that power in 10 days which makes sense.
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Pakl
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Why would they say it? He stayed the same.. Nothing says otherwise
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Demon Saiyan
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Because the whole point was they thought Goku was the one who should beat Cell. And they asked him if he can beat Cell which suggest that Goku was supressed on the whole time.

Furthermore, Goku was supressed just like his base form.
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Pakl
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Because they didnt know what Cell was capable of...
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Demon Saiyan
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They were asking Goku's ability to beat Cell not Cell's capable off.
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Pakl
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Because they don't know Cell's power
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Demon Saiyan
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Its nothing to do with Cell's power.
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Kyo
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Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
I mean you can't compare the Manga image to the Anime one but can use both as evidence..
What? Using the anime is a bit pointless when you're not comparing to the manga, since the manga is what's canon and what matters in the end.

Here's the manga version of the round eyes: http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dragon_Ball-buyao_daolian_ya/0.jp_Kanzenban/DRAGONBALLvol27/007-3YWNu.jpg

Alright, moving on...
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
Goku existed the RoSaT and Piccolo and Vegeta described them as SSjins in a natural state.. It's like normal Goku as a SSjin but not powered up..
Somehow you're not realizing that this is why your argument falls apart:
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
That's why I call him Natural MSSjin and that's what he uses the entire time until powering up vs Cell..
Case in point.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
It's shown in the design I showed which you keep ignoring...
No, which I addressed*, and to which you responded with "No, the eyes are round, do you not see it?" I then acknowledged the slight differences (we have 3 versions here, essentially) – before your response, for that matter, and you went back and repeated what you said before again.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
I already proved my interpretation is right based on the quotes Vegeta said before the CG started.. "show me your strength" can mean Goku was suppressed and not at full power
What? No, no it can't. Yes, Goku is suppressed, but no, Vegeta isn't just telling Goku to not suppress. No, Vegeta is thinking to himself, "Show me your strength," which absolutely means "I want to see how strong you are." Why would it mean "Stop suppressing and let me see the strength that I've already seen"? This makes it sound as though Vegeta is directly addressing Goku out of impatience or something, which is absolutely not the case. Look at the context.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
You are grasping at straw now... Come on, Vegeta is not THAT much ahead of 50% Goku so him thinking Goku still has some power but he is still noticeably stronger than him is wrong
Prove it.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
More like you interept this quote in the wrong way.. He thinks Goku was suppressed and waits to see his full power which he showed to Korrin..
How do you not see the problem with this? "Show me your power, which I've already seen" makes no sense. There is no reason for such a line with such a meaning to exist, and nothing in the scene supports it. Who's grasping at straws, me or you?

Lemme show you some other lines...

Chapter: 156, P11.1-6
Context: after Goku and Piccolo fight a bit
Goku: “Come at me with all you’ve got! Put out all your strength! Show me your true power!”

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P8.1-4
Context: as Goku and Vegeta are about to fight
Vegeta: “I’m looking forward to this…Show me the fruits of your training in the afterlife.”
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
Your interpretation is not backed up but mine is...
By? Certainly not the context of the scene.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
I don't understand... How does my post makes you think I say SSjinG 2 Vegeta is stronger than Warm Up Cell?? Resting Goku is the Goku who existed the RoSaT as a natural Sjin that everyone thought it was his normal state.. It was the basic power he uses the whole time till the CG and that is weaker than half of his power as he powered up to Korrin and said he used just half of it...
You see, this is why I've been telling you to read my posts more thoroughly.

> that everyone thought it was his normal state

You seriously don't see the problem in saying that this Goku was the one who stalemated the Cell who kicked Vegeta's ass?
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
What's the big deal? And again, the 50% was just a power up demonstration of Goku's real power.. His basic power which he uses the entire time since he exsited the RoSaT and until he powered up vs Cell is his natural state which is < half of his power... Gohan is also shown like Goku with that natural state until he powers up vs Cell.. That's their suppressed state..
An ordinary, everyday state, to be precise.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
I am not putting words in your mouth. People think
You say you're not putting words in my mouth, and then you go on to talk about what other people generally say. Anyway, I'd like you to go over all of my posts and look for where I say "Goku stayed at 50% the whole time." If you can't find it, then yes, you were putting words in my mouth.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
He and Gohan use the same basic level they did since they existed the RoSaT until the CG.
Until the CG. Yes. Not during any part of the CG, no. Well, not Goku, anyway.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
The art shows it as well.. You keep ignoring the concept art..
I've said more about the art than you have. I've talked about the three differing looks in Goku's eyes. I've offered an explanation for Goku's look during his demonstration for Karin's. All of which you've not addressed, simply falling back on statements like "You're ignoring the art" and "His eyes are round."
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
Vegeta is the guy who always ignores sensing ki and judges it by the look of the fighter..
Didn't stop him from realizing that Goku was superior when the latter powered up later.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
He didn't know Cell was stronger than him until his kick got tanked.. Cell put a fake ki
Yep.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
but he later showed his wamed up state which is >> Vegeta and Vegeta only realized he is weaker when his kick got tanked...
And you're ignoring that this is exactly the moment in which Cell stopped putting out his fake chi (you said something about grasping straws earlier?). Or, rather, it was right before, when he appears right behind Vegeta, after which Vegeta immediately kicked Cell. Go back and read that part. Even 16 was fooled until Cell started to actually try.

Still, you could've picked a better example, Vegeta has messed up before. So has Cell. And numerous others. In the heat of battle. Not outside of the battlefield, with a calm state of mind. He was definitely sensing Goku and Gohan there, given that he as well as Trunks and Piccolo note the way they feel "natural." Moreover, the fact that he immediately accepts his inferiority when Goku powers up should tell you that he indeed going by the chi he feels right there.

Moreover, Vegeta's not the only one who doesn't notice. No one notices how powerful Goku is. Because at the moment, he's just not powerful.

Lastly, that's not even the only thing that points to why Resting Goku is weak.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
Secondly, it was just to build up a dramatic effect like his fight
Which has no bearing on the in-universe reasons for his thoughts and actions. If Goku was legitimately weaker than Vegeta prior to powering up, it'd achieve the same dramatic effect, so taking note of that doesn't change anything. Again, who's grasping at straws here again?
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
Your entire argument hold on Vegeta not admitting inferiority to Goku
No, it doesn't. Go back and read.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
Plus, Piccolo calling it natural base power is not in reference of it being weak but in reference to show that they mastered the SSjin to the point of having no strain of evil heart
> no strain of evil heart

This was never an issue.

Piccolo didn't call it "natural base power."
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
We know he used just one level the entire time until his fight with Cell and that level was less than half of his power...
Yes, *until* the fight. Not during the fight.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
Plus, everyone else knew Goku was not serious vs Cell and they all thought Goku's max was half his power
I'll point you to Vegeta's line once more.

So, in Trunks's mind, he thinks he's stronger than Goku at the Games, according to you?
Edited by Kyo, Jun 12 2015, 04:04:04 PM.
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Dioxide


Assuming Goku was at half of his power when he initially fought Cell, then it is possible that Goku at half of his power is not even as strong as Vegeta at his acended level. What Cell describes as his warm up power was not even as powerful as Vegeta as stated by #16. Then Cell decided to increase his power even more which is easily defeated Vegeta. Evidently Cell's warm up power and his power to defeat Vegeta are different. After Cell and Goku fight for a while, Cell acknowledges it as his warm up power. However, this is all assuming Goku fought Cell with half of his power
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Dagon
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I read the chapters and watched the DBZ Kai episodes again and it seems that Goku in the warm-up round could very well be below his 50% state since everyone knew he and Cell were just warming up. I don't think that by itself indicates 50% Goku was higher than SSJG3 Trunks.
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Pakl
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Kyo
Jun 12 2015, 03:46:40 PM
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
I mean you can't compare the Manga image to the Anime one but can use both as evidence..
What? Using the anime is a bit pointless when you're not comparing to the manga, since the manga is what's canon and what matters in the end.

Here's the manga version of the round eyes: http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/0.Dragon_Ball-buyao_daolian_ya/0.jp_Kanzenban/DRAGONBALLvol27/007-3YWNu.jpg

Alright, moving on...
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
Goku existed the RoSaT and Piccolo and Vegeta described them as SSjins in a natural state.. It's like normal Goku as a SSjin but not powered up..
Somehow you're not realizing that this is why your argument falls apart:
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
That's why I call him Natural MSSjin and that's what he uses the entire time until powering up vs Cell..
Case in point.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
It's shown in the design I showed which you keep ignoring...
No, which I addressed*, and to which you responded with "No, the eyes are round, do you not see it?" I then acknowledged the slight differences (we have 3 versions here, essentially) – before your response, for that matter, and you went back and repeated what you said before again.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
I already proved my interpretation is right based on the quotes Vegeta said before the CG started.. "show me your strength" can mean Goku was suppressed and not at full power
What? No, no it can't. Yes, Goku is suppressed, but no, Vegeta isn't just telling Goku to not suppress. No, Vegeta is thinking to himself, "Show me your strength," which absolutely means "I want to see how strong you are." Why would it mean "Stop suppressing and let me see the strength that I've already seen"? This makes it sound as though Vegeta is directly addressing Goku out of impatience or something, which is absolutely not the case. Look at the context.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
You are grasping at straw now... Come on, Vegeta is not THAT much ahead of 50% Goku so him thinking Goku still has some power but he is still noticeably stronger than him is wrong
Prove it.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
More like you interept this quote in the wrong way.. He thinks Goku was suppressed and waits to see his full power which he showed to Korrin..
How do you not see the problem with this? "Show me your power, which I've already seen" makes no sense. There is no reason for such a line with such a meaning to exist, and nothing in the scene supports it. Who's grasping at straws, me or you?

Lemme show you some other lines...

Chapter: 156, P11.1-6
Context: after Goku and Piccolo fight a bit
Goku: “Come at me with all you’ve got! Put out all your strength! Show me your true power!”

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P8.1-4
Context: as Goku and Vegeta are about to fight
Vegeta: “I’m looking forward to this…Show me the fruits of your training in the afterlife.”
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
Your interpretation is not backed up but mine is...
By? Certainly not the context of the scene.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
I don't understand... How does my post makes you think I say SSjinG 2 Vegeta is stronger than Warm Up Cell?? Resting Goku is the Goku who existed the RoSaT as a natural Sjin that everyone thought it was his normal state.. It was the basic power he uses the whole time till the CG and that is weaker than half of his power as he powered up to Korrin and said he used just half of it...
You see, this is why I've been telling you to read my posts more thoroughly.

> that everyone thought it was his normal state

You seriously don't see the problem in saying that this Goku was the one who stalemated the Cell who kicked Vegeta's ass?
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
What's the big deal? And again, the 50% was just a power up demonstration of Goku's real power.. His basic power which he uses the entire time since he exsited the RoSaT and until he powered up vs Cell is his natural state which is < half of his power... Gohan is also shown like Goku with that natural state until he powers up vs Cell.. That's their suppressed state..
An ordinary, everyday state, to be precise.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
I am not putting words in your mouth. People think
You say you're not putting words in my mouth, and then you go on to talk about what other people generally say. Anyway, I'd like you to go over all of my posts and look for where I say "Goku stayed at 50% the whole time." If you can't find it, then yes, you were putting words in my mouth.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
He and Gohan use the same basic level they did since they existed the RoSaT until the CG.
Until the CG. Yes. Not during any part of the CG, no. Well, not Goku, anyway.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
The art shows it as well.. You keep ignoring the concept art..
I've said more about the art than you have. I've talked about the three differing looks in Goku's eyes. I've offered an explanation for Goku's look during his demonstration for Karin's. All of which you've not addressed, simply falling back on statements like "You're ignoring the art" and "His eyes are round."
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
Vegeta is the guy who always ignores sensing ki and judges it by the look of the fighter..
Didn't stop him from realizing that Goku was superior when the latter powered up later.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
He didn't know Cell was stronger than him until his kick got tanked.. Cell put a fake ki
Yep.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
but he later showed his wamed up state which is >> Vegeta and Vegeta only realized he is weaker when his kick got tanked...
And you're ignoring that this is exactly the moment in which Cell stopped putting out his fake chi (you said something about grasping straws earlier?). Or, rather, it was right before, when he appears right behind Vegeta, after which Vegeta immediately kicked Cell. Go back and read that part. Even 16 was fooled until Cell started to actually try.

Still, you could've picked a better example, Vegeta has messed up before. So has Cell. And numerous others. In the heat of battle. Not outside of the battlefield, with a calm state of mind. He was definitely sensing Goku and Gohan there, given that he as well as Trunks and Piccolo note the way they feel "natural." Moreover, the fact that he immediately accepts his inferiority when Goku powers up should tell you that he indeed going by the chi he feels right there.

Moreover, Vegeta's not the only one who doesn't notice. No one notices how powerful Goku is. Because at the moment, he's just not powerful.

Lastly, that's not even the only thing that points to why Resting Goku is weak.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
Secondly, it was just to build up a dramatic effect like his fight
Which has no bearing on the in-universe reasons for his thoughts and actions. If Goku was legitimately weaker than Vegeta prior to powering up, it'd achieve the same dramatic effect, so taking note of that doesn't change anything. Again, who's grasping at straws here again?
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
Your entire argument hold on Vegeta not admitting inferiority to Goku
No, it doesn't. Go back and read.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
Plus, Piccolo calling it natural base power is not in reference of it being weak but in reference to show that they mastered the SSjin to the point of having no strain of evil heart
> no strain of evil heart

This was never an issue.

Piccolo didn't call it "natural base power."
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
We know he used just one level the entire time until his fight with Cell and that level was less than half of his power...
Yes, *until* the fight. Not during the fight.
Guliver
Jun 11 2015, 04:46:15 AM
Plus, everyone else knew Goku was not serious vs Cell and they all thought Goku's max was half his power
I'll point you to Vegeta's line once more.

So, in Trunks's mind, he thinks he's stronger than Goku at the Games, according to you?
I am talking about the Anime art which shows a better way of understanding what Goku was using..

Yep, you posted the image and that's cool.. What does it prove?

How come my argument falls apart?

When did you address it? The images of the design are copied from the Manga.. Two from Goku's warm up with Cell and two from Goku on the Look Out when he existed the RoSaT.. Simple as that, they are the same... Also, to clarify it, here is the images:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

End of story they are the same


As I said before, the quotes before show my interpretation is right... Vegeta thinks he is the strongest and he is just stronger than 50% MSSjin Goku so obviously, he didn't expect Goku to be stronger.. That's how it is...

"Show me your strength" doesn't have to mean he expected him to be stronger.. He could of meant to see his power in action and such...

I don't have to prove it.. Burden of proof on you
What's te point of holding back 10% of your power? Vegeta is 63.5% of Goku imo.. Are you saying he expected Goku to be stronger and still thinking he is good deal stronger than him? Stupid

Again, Vegeta's earlier statements proves my interpretation is tight.. He thinks he is the strongest and well ahead of Goku so obviously he can't expect him to be stronger than half his power... Your interpretation makes no sense.. You are saying Vegeta expected Goku was holding back 5% of his power.. What's the point of that? It's stupid

The quotes you posted all show a slight different interpretation... "show me your TRUE strength" means Goku knew Piccolo had more power.. It was clear Vegeta knew Goku was stronger in the Bo Arc because he trained in the otherworld.. Thise quotes can't be interpreted in a different way but Vegeta's quote in the CG can..

By? By Vegeta's earlier quotes and the fact no one knew Goku had more power...

I read your posts.. Everyone thinking it's his base state is not because of his strength but because of him being natural.. Don't twist the context please..

No I dont.. For the sake of the argument, le's call what Goku uses when he existed the RoSaT until the CG a MSSjin and after powering up vs Cell a FPSSjin.. Goku's MSSjin state duing the days which never change until his fight with Cell is in par with the Cell who beat Vegeta.. Simple... The art is cear


Yes, an ordinary everyday state or whatever you wanna call it is what he uses the entire time since he existed the RoSaT until he fought Cell

I am sorry, you must have mijudged my posts.. there are some who think Gou stayed at half power which is wrong.. I guess you say he powered down back and then used half power vs Cell? Well, that's not true simply because he was never shown powering up and his art looks the same as his natural days state.. Plus, he and Gohan use it the whole time and lack an aura... That's the sign of their state and that's why Goku was not having aura vs Cell.. He was in his ordinary everyday state

Yes they did use it in the CG too. Gohan and Goku both are shown in their natural everyday state... They have those features and never power up... They use it until they power up vs Cell.. Why denying it when the entire art and plot shows they used it?? There was o power up and you have no evidence

When did you say anything about the art.. Post it again.. You just showed some Manga image of Goku vs Cell when he is shown to have round eyes proving I am right.. Furthermore, Goku's art is the same the entire time until he fight Cell.. Trunks comments his eyes changed after powering up.. His power up vs Korrin also has this change.. Goku vs Cell is n his ordinary state and has the same art and look.. Plus, the design shows they ae the same.. You have not addressed it and I disproved your arguments about it.. If not, then post it again

Of course Vegeta knew Goku was stronger.. He sensed his power up.. When someone powers up is more impressive than just standing around.. He underestimated all the villains until getting beaten

Cell put up a fake ki but then used his warm up power.. Yet Vegeta still didn't realize he was stronger until he got tanked

I don't get you.. Vegeta kicked him after Cell showed his speed. if it was not for his kick getting tanked, he would not even realize.. The same thing happened with Freeza and Boo

Nope, resting Goku is the one who fought Cell clearly shown by the art and the fact he never powered up.. You have no evidence he powered up and such.. Plus, resting Goku lacks aura and he did when he fought Cell

He was clearly in his resting state and so was Gohan

What? The drama effect was to have Goku powering up and then shocking everyone. How is that even not relevant?

I did, your entire post is no one notices his strength.. My evidence is the art and the fact Goku never powers up and that he just uses the form the whole time and you have no evidence to say othewise because it's never stated

Why does he have to call it natural base power? He was talking about them being natural at SSjin which is weird..

Too bad, you have no evidence he used more power vs Cellbecause he never powers up and has the exact same traits as his resting state.. He is in his resting state.. The design shows it being the same.. LOL

yOU IGNORE THE tRUNKS'S STATEMENT ABOUT HIS EYES TOO... hIS ROUND EYES IS HIS TRAIT to his resting state and that's what he uses the entire time

Vegeta's line can be interpreted both ways and mine has more evidence.. Trnks didn't know what to expect of the senshi... It's irelevant


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Pakl
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Dagon
Jun 13 2015, 01:15:24 AM
I read the chapters and watched the DBZ Kai episodes again and it seems that Goku in the warm-up round could very well be below his 50% state since everyone knew he and Cell were just warming up. I don't think that by itself indicates 50% Goku was higher than SSJG3 Trunks.
Resting Goku and Cell were even.. 50% MSSjin Goku >> that Cell

SSjinG 3 Trunks is stronger too but not by much so 50% MSSjin Goku > SSjinG 3 Trunks
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Dagon
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Guliver
Jun 13 2015, 04:06:05 PM
Dagon
Jun 13 2015, 01:15:24 AM
I read the chapters and watched the DBZ Kai episodes again and it seems that Goku in the warm-up round could very well be below his 50% state since everyone knew he and Cell were just warming up. I don't think that by itself indicates 50% Goku was higher than SSJG3 Trunks.
Resting Goku and Cell were even.. 50% MSSjin Goku >> that Cell

SSjinG 3 Trunks is stronger too but not by much so 50% MSSjin Goku > SSjinG 3 Trunks
Cell could have been resting or suppressed as well. The Cell that Trunks fought was thought to be his full power, and the spectators for Goku vs Cell were expecting them both to have higher power levels.
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