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Transformation Customs
Topic Started: Dec 1 2013, 05:34 PM (1,517 Views)
Strange

Points I want to throw out there just to make clear, the only way I can take say, your jacket and equip it to myself is if I enter the battle not wearing upper body equipment. While stat changes mid battle are annoying, like any mod whose worked with me before should know, I'll have all that figured out and planned ahead of time. All stat changes that would be and this and that in a pretty little PM message like usual. I do try to make things easier on the mods whenever possible.

Another note, I can't steal 2 items. I messed up the writing taking Strandy's wording over my own original but when it says "This skill follows the same parameters and restrictions as Galactic Pirate Class" it is meant to be implied that this item, should I win, would be the item in question that I picked up via class. Its me making the choice ahead of time.

But

Yeah there are some obvious flaws with that. It's a custom so I intended for it to flow with my set. My original set idea was running Kii and going cray with ki barb to beef up hard to miss moves. That said, Heat Seeking was on my list allowing me to roll a D50. Its downside is that I can't attack OR power up my next turn. Potentially I'm stunning them too with my racial so that's 5 ki spent. The cool down turn was going to be filled with this right here to make it so my turn waiting wasn't going to be a waste. I cant go spamming heat seeking all willy nilly unfortunately so at the time I came up with the idea, it sounded fair to me, especially seeing how I'll be running a pure Power and HP build. I'll be rolling 28s foreeeeever. Heat seeking would have been the only way short of learning sledgehammer or eagle eye but that's still a narrow window.

As far as the skill itself, I'm starting to reconsider on account that it maybe too much. The idea was that because now we are reaching a saga where most will be getting TF 2 either week 1 or 2 of playing, equipment items don't hold a candle to the stats given via TF. Even Legendaries and the fusion outfit will become less effective. What's got me reconsidering is how this screws over people when they lose a weapon and rely heavily on it (cause I totes wanted that ability. Looking at you Kalk). People like Sykes and Tog have their builds mostly trashed because they don't have a sword to swing for there skills (Though just to throw this out there, Togs legendary sword is still custom so I cant steal it regardless. Point remains).

I would consider for weapons that my character makes a replica that lasts throughout the fight and the skill more or less makes me fight with there real weapons while duping them into taking the fakes to hold the same effect while they still get there stats. I don't know, I'm just spit balling and looking for an ideas.
Edited by Strange, Jan 22 2014, 04:01 AM.
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Trellocks
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I'm for the skill. If you don't put out with a 29 you get hamboned.

Classic Tom Foolery [SKILL]
Description: This pirate lass is known for taking a break in battle once in awhile just to mess with her opponent.
Effect: Restrictedx1: You may use this if your Natural attack roll result is 29 or greater with a base roll of 1d30. You may remove one Non-Custom, Non-Legendary item [equipped] on the opponent. For the remainder of the match that item is considered in your inventory and [Equipped].You may change one of your existing equipment out for the "stolen" one. If the opponent wins or escapes, the item is returned to its original owner, and you cannot use this skill in your next battle. If you win the battle, you must take the item you selected with this skill. Costs 4 KI Points.
Requirements:1 inventory spot + Galactic Space Pirate

"Parley?"
Edited by Trellocks, Jan 22 2014, 05:17 AM.
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Trellocks
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They can escape and screw you over, but this is a skill for a gambler class.
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Togashi
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Warrior of Light
And I am against this. Completely. You allow someone to steal an item in the middle of battle and force someone to recalculate their entire stats. You're talking about not only increasing your own BASE STATS but decreasing your opponent's. Not damage, not a temporary reduction for X turns, but for an entire match. Example.

Person A has a Red Bandanna. This bandanna has 2 Monster Trophies on it assigned to Health and Power.

HP: +5%
Power: +5%
Dex: +8%

Strange's new pirate uses this skill successfully. Assuming he/she doesn't have anything equipped, then he's getting a blatant boost. But let's say he's wearing armored boots and switches them out. His stat changes look like:

HP: +1%
Power: +5%
Dex: +10%(And this assumes that he didn't get any kind of racial bonus)

And the opponent now has:
HP: -5%
Power: -5%
Dex: -8%

Now let's say there's a fusion using this skill. Now they not only have the Fusion Outfit, but if they get this off, they can take one of the opponent's accessories, and then they get to add more to their own stats, making it even harder to beat them. Beyond this, we can't even TRY to escape a battle until it's turn 10. Which means that people are going to be using Senzu Beans against a fusion doing this.

The restriction to a base d30 roll helps, but you increased it to 29. Which means that the chance is already doubled 6% instead of 3%. 50% Dex + Speed Demon + Kaio-Ken/Yemma Fruit pretty much insures that you have 10 extra sides until your opponent gets a high roll attack off. You add those together to a regular attack with a base of 30 you get a base of 40. Which means they go from having a 6% chance of pulling this off to 30%. On top of that you use an attack that can't be blocked, and there's nothing your opponent can do to prevent you from taking their stuff. And god help us if he uses something like Smackdown that makes it so your opponent doesn't have buku. Now you're looking at a 40% chance!

You are talking about something that DOUBLES damage done to an opponent, and in the middle of a fight. The CLASS allows them to steal an item if they win a fight and kill the opponent. And this would allow them to take said item in the middle of a fight and equip it. Not only does the opponent lose their own bonuses but then the person using this gains that bonus. Not after the fight is done and they are left the victor. No, in the middle of the fight.

How is that not overpowered?
Edited by Togashi, Jan 22 2014, 05:05 PM.
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Ioner Nevitz
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I was under the assumption that this character was not akai though? Though I do agree that having a 30% chance of pulling something like that off would hinder weapon fighters pretty strongly. Maybe add another dice roll to it to determine if the skill is successful or not?
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Strange

There's too much reading, I'm just gonna skip it and get to the point. I'm dropping the skill. It was a fun flavor kicked around between Dario and I that I thought would be fun but if it has this much negative attention, I'm just gonna drop it. No biggie, I'll think of something else.
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Strange

You know, against my better judgement I've decided I'm going to give the custom another crack.

Classic Tom Foolery [SKILL]
Description: This pirate lass is known for taking a break in battle once in awhile just to mess with her opponent. Constructing an exact replica of whatever she steals with her ki, she could potentially fool her opponents
Effect: Restrictedx1: You may use this if your Natural attack roll result is 29 or greater with a base roll of 1d30. You may remove one Non-Custom, Non-Legendary item [equipped] on the opponent. They are considered equipped with a duplicate of the stolen item. For the remainder of the match that item is considered in your inventory and your opponent continues fighting with no stat changes or equipment losses. You may change one of your existing equipment out for the "stolen" one. If the opponent wins or escapes, the item is duplicated item is considered the real one and returned to its original owner, and you cannot use this skill in your next battle. If you win the battle, you must take the item you selected with this skill. Cannot be used to take temporary equipment such as Fusion. Costs 4 KI Points.
Requirements:1 inventory spot + Galactic Space Pirate

The changes here makes it so the stolen item in question doesn't change the stats of the opponent and make it so they can run things the same (i.e Sword wielders can use there swords) and not ruin the flow of battle. Because this doesn't hinder the opponent's fight at all I'm requesting the cost be moved down to 3 instead of the original 4 or (preferably) possibly make it easier to land considering I'm running Kii and barely putting anything into dex as it is. If any other propositions, suggestions, and ideas come up, drop it here.

Also note that I can't take the fusion outfit anymore (which I didn't even consider to be honest considering the only three fusions characters ever made so far had me incorporated in two of them. Wouldn't be surprised of fusion doesn't get any attention next saga)
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Strange

Hell, I'll settle for stealing but not actually being allowed to equip the item. I can't even remember how that suggestion found its way in.
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Dario Vess
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Honestly my suggestion to Strange had nothing to do with him being able to equip the "stolen" item. It was just "SUCCESSFUL - If your attack result was [insert high number] or higher, choose one of your opponent's equipped items. That item's bonuses and effects cannot be used for the rest of the match." When I brought it up to Strandy he suggested 25 or higher and making it RESTRICTEDx2, with the effect only able to be used once per match and possibly having a different effect after the first use (in a similar fashion to Breaker Breaker).
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Strange

Dario Vess
Jan 22 2014, 09:52 PM
Honestly my suggestion to Strange had nothing to do with him being able to equip the "stolen" item. It was just "SUCCESSFUL - If your attack result was [insert high number] or higher, choose one of your opponent's equipped items. That item's bonuses and effects cannot be used for the rest of the match." When I brought it up to Strandy he suggested 25 or higher and making it RESTRICTEDx2, with the effect only able to be used once per match and possibly having a different effect after the first use (in a similar fashion to Breaker Breaker).
Yeah it was something like that. After telling other people, some kept tossing more ideas on top of it and things got out of hand. Still want to try to work something like into a skill or a sig. Hell I'll even wait till my TF is mastered to toss it into a restricted AA if someone has a better idea.
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Trellocks
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Togashi
Jan 22 2014, 04:34 PM
And I am against this. Completely. You allow someone to steal an item in the middle of battle and force someone to recalculate their entire stats. You're talking about not only increasing your own BASE STATS but decreasing your opponent's. Not damage, not a temporary reduction for X turns, but for an entire match. Example.

Person A has a Red Bandanna. This bandanna has 2 Monster Trophies on it assigned to Health and Power.

HP: +5%
Power: +5%
Dex: +8%

Strange's new pirate uses this skill successfully. Assuming he/she doesn't have anything equipped, then he's getting a blatant boost. But let's say he's wearing armored boots and switches them out. His stat changes look like:

HP: +1%
Power: +5%
Dex: +10%(And this assumes that he didn't get any kind of racial bonus)

And the opponent now has:
HP: -5%
Power: -5%
Dex: -8%

Now let's say there's a fusion using this skill. Now they not only have the Fusion Outfit, but if they get this off, they can take one of the opponent's accessories, and then they get to add more to their own stats, making it even harder to beat them. Beyond this, we can't even TRY to escape a battle until it's turn 10. Which means that people are going to be using Senzu Beans against a fusion doing this.

The restriction to a base d30 roll helps, but you increased it to 29. Which means that the chance is already doubled 6% instead of 3%. 50% Dex + Speed Demon + Kaio-Ken/Yemma Fruit pretty much insures that you have 10 extra sides until your opponent gets a high roll attack off. You add those together to a regular attack with a base of 30 you get a base of 40. Which means they go from having a 6% chance of pulling this off to 30%. On top of that you use an attack that can't be blocked, and there's nothing your opponent can do to prevent you from taking their stuff. And god help us if he uses something like Smackdown that makes it so your opponent doesn't have buku. Now you're looking at a 40% chance!

You are talking about something that DOUBLES damage done to an opponent, and in the middle of a fight. The CLASS allows them to steal an item if they win a fight and kill the opponent. And this would allow them to take said item in the middle of a fight and equip it. Not only does the opponent lose their own bonuses but then the person using this gains that bonus. Not after the fight is done and they are left the victor. No, in the middle of the fight.

How is that not overpowered?
I'm gonna debunk this real quick. First off adding a monster trophy on to something would make it considered custom IMO. you cannot take legendary or custom things with it. The skill itself costs 4ki (perhaps we should make it un moddable) Regardless, 4ki is worth a strong attack, and you gotta have 4 ki at the same time after rolling a 29 on a base 30 attack. say you are really good, and you get up to a d40 with modifiers. You have a maybe 25% chance of rolling a 29(successful attack, single dice, natural result) The benefit you get is whatever item they get. Their stats aren't going to change much, as they likely had gear on to begin with. you lose whatever stats from your gauntlet or whatever. It doesn't really take that long to punch stats into a calculator. The problem is not in the skill itself is "OP", but in the fact that people like to complain when they lose control. They are giving up taking something more valuable on a racial and wasting a custom move slot on a hail mary skill that might see use once or twice.

Pros
-enemy gets reduced stats
-you get the enemies item and can equip(assuming you don't have bis gear already)

Cons
-costs 4ki
-must roll high to activate
-cannot use racial to choose another item upon victory.
-takes up a precious skill slot for a not guaranteed use.
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Kalkavek
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Actual World Ender
[Time to hulkbust this thread.]

Everyone proposing customs on this thread: Do not.

This is for existing characters, any new characters proposing a custom should do so in the Join section on their sheet. Customs are balanced against your character's Race, Class, and TF as well, so they must be posted under the account of the character using them.

A fine example is my own Sig, which would never be allowed if I wasn't a Bio-Android.

Strange - I dig the custom idea but it's getting too much heat and it's not even very beneficial. We'll move on to something else instead. I can talk to you on AIM about tossing other ideas around.
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Trellocks
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Maybe a new thread should be opened for this. I think customs deserve a debate from everyone if at all possible.(for or against)
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Kalkavek
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Actual World Ender
We'll keep this one open for TF Customs and remake it after it gets too flooded. Applications are for proposed customs of new characters, and can be debated there.
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Strange

I'm looking to make a restricted custom skill to help make a couple of moves here and there unblockable. If I just went with a generic Restrictedxsomething, Your attack is unblockable, this does not take up a turn. with a cost of X, what do you guys think would be a fair number for restriction and cost? I'm looking for about two or three.
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