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Beware of the smokeless powder muzzleloaders!
Topic Started: Tue Dec 5, 2017 3:00 pm (344 Views)
Shiloh
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https://apnews.com/adbc910fa9064d4fbdeab57f5157d861/Gun-maker's-exploding-rifle-leaves-trail-of-injured-hunters

I wish this was not happening, but I warned folks back when the ML10 first came out that this smokeless powder muzzleloader was a BAD idea - and caught a ton of flak from devotees to the ML10 that proclaimed it was a fantastic design and perfectly safe. While yes, it can be safe there is just too much room for error when using smokeless powders. Metallurgy of this 10ML II model seems to be the issue they are focusing on, but I believe that the problem lies with the pressures possible when handloading charge after charge, placing differing pressures upon the projectile and charge by the shooter at each loading, fouling buildup, heat, etc. The metallurgy may be at fault, but I'm afraid just about any black powder enthusiast gunsmith saw this coming. Savage pushed the envelope to grab the imagination of people that really do not understand the art of smokepoles and the result is going to be a huge fiscal loss and damaged reputation at least - possibly having to bankrupt, reorganize, or sell to the company. Sadly, the result also is injuries to people that were ignorant of the danger.
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big bad hunter

sure suks
they call em smoke poles for a reason , not smokeless poles
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Two-Tales
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said the same thing right after they came out with those...
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Shiloh
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Yeah TT, remember the howls that went out from some over on the NAHC BB when we were warning how this was a disaster in the making? It wa sodd I thought. Guys that normally were quite civil suddenly acted like those of us that said "baaaad idea" had slapped Mother Teresa or something.
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jr loyd
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To many variables with smokeless powder.Application for disaster.Love my smoke poles .
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madhntr1

I aquired about a half pound of pyrodex smokeless powder, is this safe to shoot in black powder weapons?
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MRD
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Pyrodex powder is not smokeless powder , it is a B. P. substitute safe for B. P. rifles .
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benny

I've got a pound of imr 4064 that I have no use for since I don't reload anything. It was in a box with some bp loading equipment I bought at a yard sale. Been thinking about putting a long fuse on it sitting in a coyote den over on my lease and lighting it off. But I have no idea how big a mess that would make or how many lawmen would show up after to see what the hell I was doing.
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Dave N
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benny
Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:44 pm
I've got a pound of imr 4064 that I have no use for since I don't reload anything. It was in a box with some bp loading equipment I bought at a yard sale. Been thinking about putting a long fuse on it sitting in a coyote den over on my lease and lighting it off. But I have no idea how big a mess that would make or how many lawmen would show up after to see what the hell I was doing.
No guts, no glory! dnmte
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Jhunt
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In the container maybe not too much. But put it in a metal pipe with some ball bearings and probably half the county or better.
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big bad hunter

a friend uses half a pound black powder in his bowling ball mortar and sends a 16 pound ball half a mile into the sky or farther . we find half a ball over half a mile away .
so think almost a pound in coyote den will give them dogs a few new entrances sndly
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RHenshaw
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A Pound You Won't Need To Worry Bout Them Yotes Anymore, if their at home at the time of the dnmte that is.


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madhntr1

MRD
Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:58 pm
Pyrodex powder is not smokeless powder , it is a B. P. substitute safe for B. P. rifles .
on the jar it says pyrodex then under that it says smokless
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MRD
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Just sayen that pyrodex powder has been around for decades as a B. P. substitute . Never bought the stuff and don't know if they sell a different form ; nore have I ever heard of pyrodex powder in the context other than B. P.
Edited by MRD, Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:01 pm.
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Shiloh
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Pyrodex is not an explosive. Like smokeless powders it is an accelerant meaning it burns really really fast, while black powder detonates. Pyrodex generally won't "bang!" unless enclosed or compressed. Re-enactors sometimes use it because it is easier to find and usually cheaper than black powder. You can tell it because while everyone else's muskets of straight powder got "bang" theirs go "whiff!" Also, Pyrodex is extremely corrossive. It is the most corrosive of powders I have ever tested. Some of you may remember the test I ran on the old NAHC BB with Pyrodex and black powder. It was eye-opening and I have not used the stuff in my guns ever since leaving me several cans sitting unused. Scale rust within 24 hours compared to several weeks before any rust showed at all under black powder was all I needed to see.
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Shiloh
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Oh, to get a can of smokeless powder to ignite may require more heat than simply sticking a fuse in it. I have placed lit matches on powders and had the match go out without setting off the pile. You'd want to mix in some black powder so the fuse has something to start the chain reaction. Not that I suggest you do this (in case the ATF is reading this) LOL!
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