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Triples, triples, triples
Topic Started: Nov 30 2008, 02:07 PM (311 Views)
kioewen
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Although I do feel that competition skating is too focussed on jumps, and specifically on triples, I have to say, I'm starting to feel obligated to learn what the differences are between the various types of jumps. Loops, axels, salchows...it all gets kind of muddled.

Does anyone know if there's a diagram, or a set of pictures, or perhaps an introductory video on YouTube, that shows what the differences are between the different types of jumps?

I can distinguish whether a skater does one, two, or three rotations on a jump, but I cannnot yet see much difference between the various jumps, and would never be able to identify them if the announcers weren't doing so.
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Particle Man
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkD_o52mmUc

That's the only one I found so far. I actually watched it a few days ago before NHK. I don't find it that great, and the audio is a useless lame looping song, but it's better than nothing. I really want to learn to recognize all the jumps before I attend nationals. Still mostly clueless. Even if I remember which is which in theory, seeing them at full speed is so hard. There must be lots of little cues and things you can look for, like going into the jump, ways you can tell what edge they are on etc.

I've liked skating since before 2002 and still can't recognize the jumps, so don't feel bad. It's not something that just happens, I think you do have to set out to learn them.

And oh yeah. Skating is too fixated on technical aspects under CoP. I have become convinced that what we need is a hybrid scoring system. Technical Elements = CoP scoring, Presentation = 10.0 scoring. I've given reasons why a limitless points-based scoring system like CoP consistently fails to properly include the artistic side of the sport. The only sticking point I have is figuring out a sensible way to combine the two scores to achieve a ranking...
Edited by Particle Man, Dec 4 2008, 12:54 AM.
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svengaliesque
Intermediate
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The best way to learn to identify jumps is by watching and listening to the commentary. Having said that, there is another way to learn which jumps the skater is doing in the program.

You need to open two windows on your computer. In one window have the Youtube performance of let's say Mao Asada's at NHK.

In the second window open the ISU protocol. The protocol lists all of Mao's elements (jumps, spins, footwork, spiral) in the exact order in which they are performed. You refer to that while she is skating the program. You can pause, and go back as needed. I frequently use this technique when I want to verify a jump or a cheated jump or see why an element got a certain level..

In Kioewen's case you can do this with Emily's SP and LP at TEB. You can tell which jumps she attempts and see how they were scored and at the same time see her levels in the other elements.

Emily usually attempts to do three toe assisted jumps - Flip, Lutz and Toe Loop.

She does one edge triple - Salchow, never the triple loop.

She does the beautiful double axel.

If you watch often enough and you'll figure out which is which.

For example, with the flip, there is usually a brush with the right foot, then a reach back with the same foot and the toe pick pushes in the ice and the skater jumps - rotates - etc.

About COP: The PCS or Performance Component Score, supposedly evaluates things like chorography, interpretation, transitions, etc. However, judging artistic performance always manages to be subjective.
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Judith
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The video posted by Particle Man is a good resource. However, I think being able to recognize jumps comes more out of watching and being able to see how they enter into the jumps than anything. Good luck - it's not difficult once you get the hang of it!
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kioewen
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Particle Man
Dec 4 2008, 12:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkD_o52mmUc

That's the only one I found so far [...] Still mostly clueless. Even if I remember which is which in theory, seeing them at full speed is so hard.

Thank you for the video. The clearest part was the opening graphic, showing the edges and how they connect to the ice surface. I wish the slow-mos had been slowed down even more. I still have a hard time discerning the difference, and I'm glad I'm not the only one. It all happens so fast -- just a blur of motion.

I noticed that the TEB videos had extreme close-ups, in very slow-mo, of just the performers' skates during their jumps -- not shown during the program, of course, but afterwards. Those are helpful.

But this video is a great resource. Thank you very much for finding it and posting it.

I guess time and more viewing will help -- if anything can.
Edited by kioewen, Dec 26 2008, 10:34 AM.
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