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| Do you want success in Iraq?; finally, and Iraq topic... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 20 2005, 12:47 PM (2,633 Views) | |
| Sentenal | Dec 20 2005, 12:47 PM Post #1 |
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Won the Impossible Debate (twice)
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http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=58322 On December 16, the House of Representatives had a vote. It was House Resolution 612. What was this resolution? It was a resolution "expressing the commitment of the House of Representatives to achieving victory in Iraq". Now, this should be an easy vote. Regardless if you were for the war or agianst it, the fact of the matter is that we are now there. Our soldiers are now there. If we left Iraq now, or get defeated there, it would be catastrophic. Iraq would be in a worse situtaion than prior to our invasion (should we fail. It will be better with victory). We would be worse off, because we would have been beaten, and the resolve of the people of the US would be shown to be weak. And what was the result of this vote? 279-109. 108 Democrates voted AGIANST achieving victory. They basically voted FOR defeat of America. Ah Democrates, I want them in charge of my National Security. If you want to know who voted what, go here: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll648.xml |
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| Gray Wanderer | Dec 20 2005, 01:45 PM Post #2 |
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Sounds a tad broad for my liking. How, exactly, do you define "victory?" After all, we've supposedly won the war already...we're merely keeping the peace now, aren't we? Winnin' a war's one thing, but I wonder how you win a "peace..." |
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| Sentenal | Dec 20 2005, 02:02 PM Post #3 |
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Won the Impossible Debate (twice)
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You need victory to be defined for you? You know very well what victory in Iraq would be. Do you want us to win, as in, establish a stable, working republic, or not? |
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| Superbus | Dec 20 2005, 03:21 PM Post #4 |
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The sad thing is, I don't think the government even knows what victory is. Nor do they realise that our actions everyday creates more terrorists. Thost 108 Democrats were likely making a stand, knowing the vote wouldn't stand, against the Republicans, some kind of "unity" bullshit. They don't know what the fuck they just did. Now, anytime they run, someone can point at this and go "They didn't want to win in Iraq. They hate freedom!". This is a bad way of showing solidarity. I was against the war in Iraq when I was IN Iraq. Now? We HAVE to finish this. Even at the risk of becoming another Vietnam. The stakes are too high for them AND us. |
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| (*Jman*) | Dec 20 2005, 03:29 PM Post #5 |
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Kakatte Koi!
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I want success in Iraq. But by success, I don't mean free oil for the United States and a puppet government that obeys every whim of the United States of America. That is the peace of prison house, not the peace of freedom. By success, I mean the terrorists no longer having any greater percent presence as they do in America and a government set up by Iraqi's. |
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| Gray Wanderer | Dec 20 2005, 03:33 PM Post #6 |
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'Kay then. Is that even possible? The Iraqis aren't like Western nations, with literally centuries of experience with working republics stemming back from the days of the Magna Carta, or even millenia if you look at the Roman republic. They're not even like the Japanese, who don't have a great number of competing ethnic groups to destabilize a republican government. It's not easy to maintain a democracy when most of the citizenry wants to kill each other...with the internecine strife between the Kurds, Sunnis, Shi'as, etc., I'm not sure it's even possible to create any sort of stable, working republic in Iraq, no matter how hard we try. |
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| Zexion | Dec 20 2005, 03:44 PM Post #7 |
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Ca Romana
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And if we defeat them, is that a bad thing? That's telling me we're weeding out more worthless dirtbags. Terrorism will never die. Let's just get that straight. Our goal in Iraq and throughout the world is to cripple it to a point of uselessness, like we have already done so with Bin Ladens Al Qaeda.
That part was an oxymoron. There is a reason "Democracy" is "for the people", meaning every group and race in a nation. They have a say, so I'm not getting you. |
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| Brazy CK | Dec 20 2005, 04:07 PM Post #8 |
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5 warnings=ban
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I don't even think we should fucking BE in Iraq in the first place. People call this a war, it's a fucking invasion, not a war. And now the government is saying that they don't want to take the troops out because the rest of the world will think they can't be trusted... But the rest of the world already thinks the US is one big asshole for going there to start with. |
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| Inui | Dec 20 2005, 04:35 PM Post #9 |
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Power of Flower
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I always have supported this war since day one. I feel it's necessary for future peace. We'll understand it all fifty years from now. I'm behind Bush 100% in this and loved his address to the union the other night. Pwning terrorist noobs and facist assholes is a GOOD thing. Let's finish the job. |
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| Brazy CK | Dec 20 2005, 04:36 PM Post #10 |
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5 warnings=ban
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But declaring a war based on eliminating a group? Sounds way too extreme. <<; |
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| Gray Wanderer | Dec 20 2005, 04:37 PM Post #11 |
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"That part was an oxymoron. There is a reason "Democracy" is "for the people", meaning every group and race in a nation. They have a say, so I'm not getting you. " Yeah, that's the problem. Every group and race in a nation has a say in a democracy, and when each of them says, "I want all these other groups to die!" isn't that quite a hindrance to a working republic? There's still a lot of intergroup violence going on in Iraq right now, I just don't have faith in America's ability to staunch it, regardless of how "dedicated" we are or how much "resolve" we have or how "far" we're willing to go. |
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| Bosceon | Dec 20 2005, 04:40 PM Post #12 |
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姚明
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Exactly, that country needs to be free, but we can't make them free and tehn control them, that wouldn't be free would it. XDD |
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| Zexion | Dec 20 2005, 04:41 PM Post #13 |
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Ca Romana
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Yes, there is, but when only 1% of Sunni's make up the 'violent population' of the 33% minority, I don't see it as that much of a problem. Shiites and Sunnis are on good terms now. It's just the radical extremists we need to worry about, and the more we fight, the more they a crippled. There's already a rift between Muslims and Radicals.
So I guess we should have never invaded Kosovo and waged war with Milosevic's party in Srpski/Serbia. After all, he committed world genocide, but attacking his party... yeah, it's too extreme. Guess what, same case with Saddam. Criticize Iraq and you criticize all wars fought in the 80's-90's. And as a Moldave, I can give you an entire lecture on how there is no difference between Iraq and the Balkans. My Magyar and Makedonski cousins can give you a rundown on how Kosovo and Iraq are essentially the same. |
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| Brazy CK | Dec 20 2005, 04:46 PM Post #14 |
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5 warnings=ban
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Maybe if some goddamn credible evidence supporting Saddam's supposed "global" threat, including the WoMs that just floated into thin air, was presented to the people before entering Iraq I might not be so skeptical. |
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| Zexion | Dec 20 2005, 04:47 PM Post #15 |
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Ca Romana
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Saddam. Fucking. Hussein. There's your proof. |
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