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Do you want success in Iraq?; finally, and Iraq topic...
Topic Started: Dec 20 2005, 12:47 PM (2,643 Views)
Sentenal
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Won the Impossible Debate (twice)

Richie
Dec 21 2005, 05:55 PM
Well if we "win" by forcing our government upon a country with no other alternatives, I don't consider it a victory at all.  :unsure:

Forcing? THEY VOTED ON THEIR CONSTITUTION. They drafted it, they voted on it, they approved it! We gave them the chance to make a government that they wanted. And now we have to protect that until they are able to do so themselves.
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Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
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Laharl: Also, you can't multiply a number by one.
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Laharl: 1 cannot be used as a multiplier.
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Laharl: I wasn't good at math. That doesn't make me an idiot!
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Brazy CK
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Sentenal
Dec 21 2005, 05:58 PM
Richie
Dec 21 2005, 05:55 PM
Well if we "win" by forcing our government upon a country with no other alternatives, I don't consider it a victory at all.  :unsure:

Forcing? THEY VOTED ON THEIR CONSTITUTION. They drafted it, they voted on it, they approved it! We gave them the chance to make a government that they wanted. And now we have to protect that until they are able to do so themselves.

If your idea of letting them choose their own government is by storming in our troops, pushing them into forming a sloppy constitution and put a vote to it (because we all know the modern voting system is absolutely without corruption), then we obviously share very different ideas. o_o;
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Zexion
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Ca Romana

Quote:
 
If your idea of letting them choose their own government is by storming in our troops, pushing them into forming a sloppy constitution and put a vote to it (because we all know the modern voting system is absolutely without corruption), then we obviously share very different ideas. o_o;


i guess communism is better, with a dictator

wait, they had that

and wait, i lived in a communist country

id much rather have an army from romania storm in and force us to vote, but thats just me
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Brazy CK
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Dschinghis Khan
Dec 21 2005, 10:22 PM
Quote:
 
If your idea of letting them choose their own government is by storming in our troops, pushing them into forming a sloppy constitution and put a vote to it (because we all know the modern voting system is absolutely without corruption), then we obviously share very different ideas. o_o;


i guess communism is better, with a dictator

wait, they had that

and wait, i lived in a communist country

id much rather have an army from romania storm in and force us to vote, but thats just me

I'm not saying any form of government is better, I'm just saying the threat of losing the United State's protection MIGHT have influenced their decision on what to base their government on.

Is that good enough? o_o;
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Sentenal
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Richie
Dec 21 2005, 11:21 PM
Sentenal
Dec 21 2005, 05:58 PM
Richie
Dec 21 2005, 05:55 PM
Well if we "win" by forcing our government upon a country with no other alternatives, I don't consider it a victory at all.  :unsure:

Forcing? THEY VOTED ON THEIR CONSTITUTION. They drafted it, they voted on it, they approved it! We gave them the chance to make a government that they wanted. And now we have to protect that until they are able to do so themselves.

If your idea of letting them choose their own government is by storming in our troops, pushing them into forming a sloppy constitution and put a vote to it (because we all know the modern voting system is absolutely without corruption), then we obviously share very different ideas. o_o;

Your hopeless. Maybe when your older.

BTW, you still have yet to say "I want victory in Iraq". Instead, you have keep dodging the question, saying "how do you define victory", and "I don't think your 'victory' is victory", blah blah blah. Come now, admit that you want the US to be defeated, and save us some argueing time.
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Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
Quote:
 
Laharl: Also, you can't multiply a number by one.
Quote:
 
Laharl: 1 cannot be used as a multiplier.
Quote:
 
Laharl: I wasn't good at math. That doesn't make me an idiot!
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Zexion
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Ca Romana

Howso. That... doesn't seem to make much sense to me. you're looking at it the Democratic/Ted Kennedy way, but look at it from the people's point of view. What kind of government would YOU want if you lived under a dictatorship?
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Brazy CK
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Well, it's my personal opinion that if we're going to fix Iraq, we're going to do what the people want, not just take the quickest route out of a dictatorship. :unsure:

@Sentenal: Yes. I HATE America. That is why I live here. I want everyone to be killed.

Ugh. You're hopeless. Maybe when you're older.

Do I want victory in Iraq? Of course! I don't want the United States to be defeated in anything, as long as our argument is the moral one. But what terms is this victory under? Giving the Iraqi people what they want? Of course! But if the US influences their decisions at all, I don't think it's a victory at all.
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Sentenal
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Quote:
 
Well, it's my personal opinion that if we're going to fix Iraq, we're going to do what the people want, not just take the quickest route out of a dictatorship.

See elections with huge turnout, and the Iraqis drafting their own constitution.

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Do I want victory in Iraq? Of course! I don't want the United States to be defeated in anything, as long as our argument is the moral one. But what terms is this victory under? Giving the Iraqi people what they want? Of course! But if the US influences their decisions at all, I don't think it's a victory at all.

Okay, good good, you want us to win.

Now, explain why exactly the Iraqis creating a representative republic where they vote on who is in office, etc etc, is not a moral cause.
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Conquered FEFF Awards

Quote:
 
Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
Quote:
 
Laharl: Also, you can't multiply a number by one.
Quote:
 
Laharl: 1 cannot be used as a multiplier.
Quote:
 
Laharl: I wasn't good at math. That doesn't make me an idiot!
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Brazy CK
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Sentenal
Dec 21 2005, 10:50 PM
Quote:
 
Well, it's my personal opinion that if we're going to fix Iraq, we're going to do what the people want, not just take the quickest route out of a dictatorship.

See elections with huge turnout, and the Iraqis drafting their own constitution.

Quote:
 
Do I want victory in Iraq? Of course! I don't want the United States to be defeated in anything, as long as our argument is the moral one. But what terms is this victory under? Giving the Iraqi people what they want? Of course! But if the US influences their decisions at all, I don't think it's a victory at all.

Okay, good good, you want us to win.

Now, explain why exactly the Iraqis creating a representative republic where they vote on who is in office, etc etc, is not a moral cause.

I'm not saying it's not a moral cause, I'm just saying that I find it hard to believe that the United States had no influence on the election, which pretty much negates all nobility in this war, doesn't it? =/
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Sam767
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Arf

Not really Richie. At least something good may come out of the mistake which is this "Iraq War". (Which wasn't even a war. It was just us bombing the shit out of a country randomly and taking it over.)
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Brazy CK
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But if their new government is really just a brainchild of the United States, then this whole mission seems kind of useless, really. o_o; Considering this whole thing is about liberating the Iraqi peoples, and making them dependent on us is not exactly liberating them.
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Sam767
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Arf

In all honesty, it's better than what they had. We will see. I am sure that the US influence in this issue runs deep, but I think it's better to evaluate the freedom of the people once the dust clears and the country is firmly established. To me it just matters how happy they are with the situation; not how happy we are.
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Sentenal
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Won the Impossible Debate (twice)

Richie
Dec 22 2005, 12:19 AM
Sentenal
Dec 21 2005, 10:50 PM
Quote:
 
Well, it's my personal opinion that if we're going to fix Iraq, we're going to do what the people want, not just take the quickest route out of a dictatorship.

See elections with huge turnout, and the Iraqis drafting their own constitution.

Quote:
 
Do I want victory in Iraq? Of course! I don't want the United States to be defeated in anything, as long as our argument is the moral one. But what terms is this victory under? Giving the Iraqi people what they want? Of course! But if the US influences their decisions at all, I don't think it's a victory at all.

Okay, good good, you want us to win.

Now, explain why exactly the Iraqis creating a representative republic where they vote on who is in office, etc etc, is not a moral cause.

I'm not saying it's not a moral cause, I'm just saying that I find it hard to believe that the United States had no influence on the election, which pretty much negates all nobility in this war, doesn't it? =/

Your suggesting that the US is staging and/or fixing the elections?
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Quote:
 
Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
Quote:
 
Laharl: Also, you can't multiply a number by one.
Quote:
 
Laharl: 1 cannot be used as a multiplier.
Quote:
 
Laharl: I wasn't good at math. That doesn't make me an idiot!
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Mind Bomber
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I'm going to have to take a deep breath for this one:

[size=14]NO FREAKIN' DUH![/size]

The Iraqi government, despite the number of proud, ink-fingered voters, is still largely at our beck and call. The election was more of a PR exercise than a decision by the people.
HLL>-0)U<ZAWU0AW|-IHv^=^-EEW3H|-I|-IW|-L<Zv^_|<|-H0Z

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Gray Wanderer


Well, the important question to ask, was it an effective PR exercise? From what I've seen in the news, most of the voters seem pretty happy. Even if it is staged, if voting placates the Iraqis to at least some extent, it's served its purpose.
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