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Do you want success in Iraq?; finally, and Iraq topic...
Topic Started: Dec 20 2005, 12:47 PM (2,638 Views)
Superbus
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Askio
Dec 25 2005, 04:26 PM
The government doesnt care what we think. They only care that they do things at home that we like so they stay in office. Really, getting Iraq free is good and all, but I think we have overstayed our visit now. When Suddams trial is over, we should haul our stupid nuclear loving asses out of there ASAP.

We can't. The damage is done. Now, if we were to pull out right now, we'd have a REAL problem on our hands; there'd be a brutal civil war the likes of which we've never seen, and whoever won would be a MAJOR problem for us.

If that were to happen, Iraq would be the kind of hotbed that President Bush has pretended it's been for a while.
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Sentenal
Dec 26 2005, 03:08 PM
Quote:
 
Yes, but many things can be changed. Where I live, 3000 votes were lost, and apparently 2964 were for Kerry, and they happen to turn up after election  Anyway, it seems a lot of us want success in Iraq. Remember though that Bush declared victory almost 2 years ago. But as Wind Sword and I have seemed to agree on, that we have stayed to long and need to get out.

Name one good thing that will come with us leaving now. Sure, our troops won't be killed in Iraq anymore, but they will die else where. Will us leaving Iraq cause us to be safer? Will terrorist stop recruiting? Will nations like Lybia stop their nuclear programs (which they did after we invaded Iraq)? Will Iraq be better off? Is us leaving Iraq worth it if you answered 'no' to any of the previous?

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Generalizations are not acceptable in debates. Only a dumbass would make one, as it is what starts prejudice and bigotry. Hence I was telling him not to make a dumbass out of himself by generalizing.

Sorry, richie, but in my first post, I linked to the voting record of the voting record of the House of Representatives. More than half of them want US defeat. Thats not generalization. Thats fact. Lets see if Democrates care (as in, vote them out) next November.

Then talk about democratic representatives, not democrats in general.
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Sentenal
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Quote:
 
Then talk about democratic representatives, not democrats in general.

Tell me, Richie, just who do those politicans represent?
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Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
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Laharl: Also, you can't multiply a number by one.
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Laharl: 1 cannot be used as a multiplier.
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Laharl: I wasn't good at math. That doesn't make me an idiot!
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Sentenal
Dec 27 2005, 12:00 AM
Quote:
 
Then talk about democratic representatives, not democrats in general.

Tell me, Richie, just who do those politicans represent?

The 51%. :)
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Sentenal
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Richie
Dec 27 2005, 01:56 AM
Sentenal
Dec 27 2005, 12:00 AM
Quote:
 
Then talk about democratic representatives, not democrats in general.

Tell me, Richie, just who do those politicans represent?

The 51%. :)

Democrat politicians represent Democrats, Republican politicans represent Republicans. So, Democrat's representation in the House voted for defeat. So if they don't accurately represent mainstream Democrat's view on this, they will be voted out of office. But it probably won't happen.
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Quote:
 
Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
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Laharl: Also, you can't multiply a number by one.
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Laharl: 1 cannot be used as a multiplier.
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Laharl: I wasn't good at math. That doesn't make me an idiot!
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Sentenal
Dec 27 2005, 01:17 AM
Richie
Dec 27 2005, 01:56 AM
Sentenal
Dec 27 2005, 12:00 AM
Quote:
 
Then talk about democratic representatives, not democrats in general.

Tell me, Richie, just who do those politicans represent?

The 51%. :)

Democrat politicians represent Democrats, Republican politicans represent Republicans. So, Democrat's representation in the House voted for defeat. So if they don't accurately represent mainstream Democrat's view on this, they will be voted out of office. But it probably won't happen.

They represent them, they do not necessarily share their opinions on every matter.

Just because the representatives think one way does not mean the whole group thinks the same way. Generalizating.
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Sentenal
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The job of Representatives is to represent the people's ideas and views on a national level. If they don't do that, they should be replaced by someone who does. And I can garantee you that most of these people won't loose any support from their base because of this. Well, at least to the extend where it would matter.
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Quote:
 
Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
Quote:
 
Laharl: Also, you can't multiply a number by one.
Quote:
 
Laharl: 1 cannot be used as a multiplier.
Quote:
 
Laharl: I wasn't good at math. That doesn't make me an idiot!
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Sentenal
Dec 27 2005, 01:27 AM
The job of Representatives is to represent the people's ideas and views on a national level.

Change "people's" to "party's" and we've got an agreement.
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Sentenal
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Richie
Dec 27 2005, 02:28 AM
Sentenal
Dec 27 2005, 01:27 AM
The job of Representatives is to represent the people's ideas and views on a national level.

Change "people's" to "party's" and we've got an agreement.

Okay...

Quote:
 
The job of Representatives is to represent the party's ideas and views on a national level. If they don't do that, they should be replaced by someone who does. And I can garantee you that most of these people won't loose any support from their base because of this. Well, at least to the extend where it would matter.

So their job is to represent their party's view. And the way they represent their party's view is agianst success. What do you think the chances are that the democratic party will vote them out of office? I mean, obviously, their views on defeat doesn't match their party's, so apparently they arn't doing their job.
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Quote:
 
Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
Quote:
 
Laharl: Also, you can't multiply a number by one.
Quote:
 
Laharl: 1 cannot be used as a multiplier.
Quote:
 
Laharl: I wasn't good at math. That doesn't make me an idiot!
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Sentenal
Dec 27 2005, 01:33 AM
Richie
Dec 27 2005, 02:28 AM
Sentenal
Dec 27 2005, 01:27 AM
The job of Representatives is to represent the people's ideas and views on a national level.

Change "people's" to "party's" and we've got an agreement.

Okay...

Quote:
 
The job of Representatives is to represent the party's ideas and views on a national level. If they don't do that, they should be replaced by someone who does. And I can garantee you that most of these people won't loose any support from their base because of this. Well, at least to the extend where it would matter.

So their job is to represent their party's view. And the way they represent their party's view is agianst success. What do you think the chances are that the democratic party will vote them out of office? I mean, obviously, their views on defeat doesn't match their party's, so apparently they arn't doing their job.

Their job isn't to represent their party's views, but that is what you have to do to become popular. Not necessarily all politicians follow that rule, hence why some break away from the flock.

Mind defining exactly what you mean by defeat? I'm assuming you mean pulling out prematurely.
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Sentenal
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But that IS their job. They are there to represent the people. Now days, its representing your party, but its core purpose is giving the people national voice. And if they go off on their own thing, rather than represent their constituents, they are not doing their job.

Defeat, as in not winning. The war has not been won yet. So yes, pulling out prematurally, which would negate every positive thing we have done there.
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Quote:
 
Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
Quote:
 
Laharl: Also, you can't multiply a number by one.
Quote:
 
Laharl: 1 cannot be used as a multiplier.
Quote:
 
Laharl: I wasn't good at math. That doesn't make me an idiot!
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Sentenal
Dec 27 2005, 01:45 AM
But that IS their job.  They are there to represent the people.  Now days, its representing your party, but its core purpose is giving the people national voice.  And if they go off on their own thing, rather than represent their constituents, they are not doing their job.

Defeat, as in not winning.  The war has not been won yet.  So yes, pulling out prematurally, which would negate every positive thing we have done there.

The idea that any politician anywhere represents the people is laughable.

I agree, we've gone in too deep to pull out just yet.

Explain to me how we "win" the war, then?
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Sentenal
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For an example of one that did, take Zell Miller, a former Georgia Govenor and Senator. He was a democrat. But he represented his state's views and beliefs, and was hated by the Democratic party because of it.

And we win in Iraq by training their army so that they can defend themselves, and to protect their government while it establishes itself. This is done by combating the terrorist now in Iraq, and obviously training the Iraqis to do this.
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Quote:
 
Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
Quote:
 
Laharl: Also, you can't multiply a number by one.
Quote:
 
Laharl: 1 cannot be used as a multiplier.
Quote:
 
Laharl: I wasn't good at math. That doesn't make me an idiot!
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Sentenal
Dec 27 2005, 07:45 AM
But that IS their job. They are there to represent the people. Now days, its representing your party, but its core purpose is giving the people national voice. And if they go off on their own thing, rather than represent their constituents, they are not doing their job.

Defeat, as in not winning. The war has not been won yet. So yes, pulling out prematurally, which would negate every positive thing we have done there.

George Bush Senior
 
Read my lips: No more taxes.


Guess what, he went and raised taxes after he was voted into office. Politicians LIE to get people's votes. They claim they'll do what's popular. They don't actually do it though :o.,
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Sentenal
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Guess what? George W. Bush said he would cut taxes, and he did.
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Quote:
 
Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
Quote:
 
Laharl: Also, you can't multiply a number by one.
Quote:
 
Laharl: 1 cannot be used as a multiplier.
Quote:
 
Laharl: I wasn't good at math. That doesn't make me an idiot!
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