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Topic Started: Jan 3 2006, 06:39 PM (2,256 Views)
Reaver
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Sentenal
Jan 19 2006, 07:29 PM
They arn't "searching" or "seizing" anything. They are monitering conversations.

They tap to phone to "search" for proof that the suspect is a terrorist. :)
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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Sentenal
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How the hell is listening in on a converstation "searching"?
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Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
Quote:
 
Laharl: Also, you can't multiply a number by one.
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Laharl: 1 cannot be used as a multiplier.
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Laharl: I wasn't good at math. That doesn't make me an idiot!
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Brazy CK
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Sentenal
Jan 19 2006, 06:49 PM
How the hell is listening in on a converstation "searching"?

...They are searching for terrorist threats by listening to conversations.

It's the same as searching a house, except now they don't need a warrant, and it's via the phone.
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Reaver
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Sentenal
Jan 19 2006, 07:49 PM
How the hell is listening in on a converstation "searching"?

If you're searching for information, you ask somone to see if they can tell you waht to wish to know.

If you tap a suspect's phone, you listen to see if they can tell you what you're searching for.
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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Sentenal
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Reaver
Jan 19 2006, 08:06 PM
Sentenal
Jan 19 2006, 07:49 PM
How the hell is listening in on a converstation "searching"?

If you're searching for information, you ask somone to see if they can tell you waht to wish to know.

If you tap a suspect's phone, you listen to see if they can tell you what you're searching for.

Yeah, but your not searching anything by tapping the phones. Your listening.
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Quote:
 
Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
Quote:
 
Laharl: Also, you can't multiply a number by one.
Quote:
 
Laharl: 1 cannot be used as a multiplier.
Quote:
 
Laharl: I wasn't good at math. That doesn't make me an idiot!
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Reaver
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Sentenal
Jan 19 2006, 08:16 PM
Reaver
Jan 19 2006, 08:06 PM
Sentenal
Jan 19 2006, 07:49 PM
How the hell is listening in on a converstation "searching"?

If you're searching for information, you ask somone to see if they can tell you waht to wish to know.

If you tap a suspect's phone, you listen to see if they can tell you what you're searching for.

Yeah, but your not searching anything by tapping the phones. Your listening.

Why are you listening? To find out information. How do you find something. Search for it. :)
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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Wind Sword
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SKILLNADEN ÄR DRINKABILITY

Okay, before I thought we had settled it was about search warrants, now we're trying to group wiretaps into search warrants. It's a stretch. A big one.

Note their the word effects means only their property anywho. You took one word from an unrelated admendment that is so vague, it could mean anything.

Are they "Searching" for information. In a way. It's more like fishing. They don't know what they could find. Note how all the items aforementioned in the amendment were concrete, solid objects, rather than

"Searching for information" could mean anything. By your interpretation, tape recorders, looking in a window, asking someone something, knocking on a guy's door, taking fingerprints, forensics, and subpeonas all warrant warrants. In other words, police have to go to a judge and say, we need your permission to basically even investigate this crime. Information is nothing you have monopoly, and should you accidently disclose it when you think Big Brother isn't listening, umm who cares?

My entire arguement goes back to the fact that even if a law/amendment was in action, it should be repealed. My point of view is nothing horrible can come from wiretapping the wrong guy, EVERYTHING can come from tapping a thug.
~~Wind Sword

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Clones are create and people can't bore a clone. Scientifically they are called born and not created. The only way to pre-determine their genes is if they are already out in the world usually in a pod that would resemble the sac in a mothers womb. Take Star Wars for example.

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Crysta
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wat

I beseech thee, almighty dictionary!

Quote:
 
search  Audio pronunciation of "searching" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (sūrch)
v. searched, search·ing, search·es
v. tr.

  1. To make a thorough examination of; look over carefully in order to find something; explore.
  2. To make a careful examination or investigation of; probe: search one's conscience for the right solution to the problem.
  3. Law. To make a thorough check of (a legal document); scrutinize: search a title.
  4.
        1. To examine in order to find something lost or concealed.
        2. To examine the person or personal effects of in order to find something lost or concealed.
  5. To come to know; learn.


Now, now folks... the government is just looking into phone conversations because they feel like it. Surely they're not searching for evidence against suspected terrorists. They're "listening" to it. Like with music.

C'mon, people, we know what searching means and we know they're doing it. It's simply actively looking for something. It's the essence of crime.

Quote:
 
By your interpretation, tape recorders, looking in a window, asking someone something, knocking on a guy's door, taking fingerprints, forensics, and subpeonas all warrant warrants.


In theory, they should, but we need amendments for all of them.
~ Crysta, Zombie Queen
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I always give frying pans to female survivors in Dead Rising. It's really the only thing I'm confident they know how to use.
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Sentenal
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Won the Impossible Debate (twice)

Searching is something that is physically done. Like searching through my wallet for money, or breaking into a building to search for whatever. When you are listening in on a conversation, you become witness to whatever is said. Its exactly the same thing as overhearing other people talking.

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In theory, they should, but we need amendments for all of them.

No no, according to your interpretation, we already have an amendment for all of them. And its absurd.
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Quote:
 
Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
Quote:
 
Laharl: Also, you can't multiply a number by one.
Quote:
 
Laharl: 1 cannot be used as a multiplier.
Quote:
 
Laharl: I wasn't good at math. That doesn't make me an idiot!
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Crysta
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wat

Sentenal
Jan 20 2006, 08:41 PM
Searching is something that is physically done.

o/' I say to-MAY-to, you say to-MAH-to... o/'

And isn't it supposed to be "Sentinel"?

The dictionary disagrees with you. It uses this example:

Quote:
 
search one's conscience for the right solution to the problem.


We're assuming the person isn't physically searching through his conscience with his eyeballs. The shoulder angel and devil doesn't actually exist like it does in cartoons.

So the dictionary says you can search for something without having to physically look at it, and the dictionary is more valid than you. You're just trying to interpet it in a way that makes you sound right, which you aren't. The one who established searching as a purely physical action is yourself, not any other source.

Quote:
 
No no, according to your interpretation, we already have an amendment for all of them.  And its absurd.


Well, you DO typically need a warrant to search someone's belongings. It seems to work fine in every other case, unless you want cops barging into your house just because they suspect you for something. In a neighborhood such as mine, they'll probably think I'm a drug dealer if I just stand at a street corner and look at them funny.

Now you say if you have nothing to hide you shouldn't worry about it. I know quite a feel people who are naturally more paranoid than your average everyday person, so telling them to be okay with it kind of strikes me as absurd. Then there's the crowd who simply don't trust complete strangers nosing around in their business, government or not. Then there's the people who find it flat-out offensive and view it as a violation of what Americans hold dear. People love their privacy, so sue them.

Does it mean these people have something to hide? No, they're just uncomfortable with it and feel they shouldn't have to deal with it from a government who supposedly touts they will always respect your rights, freedom and liberties. It's not that hard to understand.
~ Crysta, Zombie Queen
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GODonPCP
 
I always give frying pans to female survivors in Dead Rising. It's really the only thing I'm confident they know how to use.
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Reaver
Troll

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My entire arguement goes back to the fact that even if a law/amendment was in action, it should be repealed. My point of view is nothing horrible can come from wiretapping the wrong guy, EVERYTHING can come from tapping a thug.
Oops! We accidentially tapped teh Democratic Headquarters, now we know their plans. :(
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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Brazy CK
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Sentenal
Jan 20 2006, 02:41 PM
Searching is something that is physically done.

Quote:
 
5. To come to know; learn.


:)
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Inui
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Power of Flower

If I were all of you, I'd simply curl up and die as soon as Crysta posts. :(

She wins this internet today! Hyuk hyuk!
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Crysta
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wat

Kuchiki Rukia
Jan 21 2006, 12:25 AM
If I were all of you, I'd simply curl up and die as soon as Crysta posts. :(

She wins this internet today! Hyuk hyuk!

... I want a trophy instead...

They're not the worst crowd I've parried with. The guys at the Golden Sun forum were pretty bad.
~ Crysta, Zombie Queen
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GODonPCP
 
I always give frying pans to female survivors in Dead Rising. It's really the only thing I'm confident they know how to use.
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Sentenal
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Won the Impossible Debate (twice)

Quote:
 
o/' I say to-MAY-to, you say to-MAH-to... o/'

And isn't it supposed to be "Sentinel"?

Does that really belong in a debate forum? I spell my screen name Sentenal, I don't give a shit that the actual word is Sentinel.

Quote:
 
The dictionary disagrees with you. It uses this example:

Quote:
 
search one's conscience for the right solution to the problem.


We're assuming the person isn't physically searching through his conscience with his eyeballs. The shoulder angel and devil doesn't actually exist like it does in cartoons.

So the dictionary says you can search for something without having to physically look at it, and the dictionary is more valid than you. You're just trying to interpet it in a way that makes you sound right, which you aren't. The one who established searching as a purely physical action is yourself, not any other source.

True, this is one instance where one is searching for something thats not physical, but this is still not the same thing as listening in on a conversation.

Quote:
 
Well, you DO typically need a warrant to search someone's belongings. It seems to work fine in every other case, unless you want cops barging into your house just because they suspect you for something. In a neighborhood such as mine, they'll probably think I'm a drug dealer if I just stand at a street corner and look at them funny.

Now you say if you have nothing to hide you shouldn't worry about it. I know quite a feel people who are naturally more paranoid than your average everyday person, so telling them to be okay with it kind of strikes me as absurd. Then there's the crowd who simply don't trust complete strangers nosing around in their business, government or not. Then there's the people who find it flat-out offensive and view it as a violation of what Americans hold dear. People love their privacy, so sue them.

Does it mean these people have something to hide? No, they're just uncomfortable with it and feel they shouldn't have to deal with it from a government who supposedly touts they will always respect your rights, freedom and liberties. It's not that hard to understand.

I don't consider things you say as a belonging, or a possession. That the 4th admendment protects from unwarrent seizures. And really, as was said very early in this topic, national security is a bit more important that privacy in conversations between you and someone outside the country.

@Richie: I don't want to hear anything from you about definitions, seeing as how you don't want to accept the definition of terrorism (see that other thread). That definition is so vague, someone could intrupert it so that the government couldn't do a single thing ever without a warrant.
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Conquered FEFF Awards

Quote:
 
Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
Quote:
 
Laharl: Also, you can't multiply a number by one.
Quote:
 
Laharl: 1 cannot be used as a multiplier.
Quote:
 
Laharl: I wasn't good at math. That doesn't make me an idiot!
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