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God and Historical American Documents; Flamekettle topic.
Topic Started: Jan 24 2006, 10:52 PM (920 Views)
Crysta
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wat

That said, who cares if it's taken out? It wasn't there to begin with.
~ Crysta, Zombie Queen
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GODonPCP
 
I always give frying pans to female survivors in Dead Rising. It's really the only thing I'm confident they know how to use.
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Soja
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Gentle Water, Crashing Waves

Crysta
Jan 26 2006, 05:28 AM
That said, who cares if it's taken out? It wasn't there to begin with.

Who cares if the Civil Rights Act gets taken out? It wasn't there to begin with.

Weak argument.

According to recent estimates, about 70% of Americans. Mainly because they're Christian.

As long as people aren't forced to say it or believe it, no laws are being broken.
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Mirar on Sep 8 2007
06:08 PM
nigga please
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Crysta
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wat

Soja
Jan 26 2006, 05:31 AM
Who cares if the Civil Rights Act gets taken out?

Everyone except white people. XD

The difference is that the Civil Rights Act... is an act. I don't know if "under God" really changed anything.
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GODonPCP
 
I always give frying pans to female survivors in Dead Rising. It's really the only thing I'm confident they know how to use.
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Soja
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Gentle Water, Crashing Waves

"Under God" was a patriotic statement to the Commies. "We have God on our side, foo's."

And it was Congress that appended the words "Under God" to the pledge. A bill was signed for it, and such. Both came from the same source, and both are laws.

I only used the CRA as an example to why your statement wasn't very strong. Many things in our government were not there to begin with.
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Mirar on Sep 8 2007
06:08 PM
nigga please
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Severian
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Well, while I don't see what the point would be, I could see an argument that we should change our laws to not include god and shit since the idea would be that we should change.

But I don't think it's really important. I don't like the idea of going around saying "god is on our side" because it only helps drive a population to go around and kill everyone who isn't on their side. It also validates a holy-vs-unholy kind of arguing, so that both sides tell themselves they're doing the divinely right thing. That being said, it's not something to get worked up about in everyday culture when the people who believe it aren't psychotic weirdoes who want to massacre everyone who's different from them. I'm sure there are a few people like that in the USA, but hey, people like that are everywhere.

Personally, I don't say "under god" in the pledge. It'd be nice to be on god's side, but I'm going to do what I think is right no matter what side god is on. But I'm perfectly fine if other people say it.
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Squee
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Compiler?

This really burns me up.

It just blows my mind that some people just can't accept other people's beliefs, so they go and shove their beliefs down our throats and use a non-legit statement to back it up. If these people had any common sense, they'd just not say "under God" and not mind if other people say it!
You must know the path, and the path must know you.
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Crysta
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wat

Excluding "under God" in a pledge doesn't mean you're not accepting someone else's beliefs. It just means you probably don't think we're under God. Considering the people we're fighting at the moment insist on calling this a holy war against their religion and our president seems to consider himself a mini-Messiah, our vaingloriousness probably doesn't help.

But erasing "under God" probably isn't going to change all this anyway. I don't think Osama is spending sleepless hours "burning up" over our Pledge of Allegiance. In essence, it's just two words. Our country is still overwhelmingly Christian and our founding fathers were mostly Christian. If it isn't there, it's gonna be somewhere else.

So liek, getting mad over whether or not it stays period is kinda' pointless.
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GODonPCP
 
I always give frying pans to female survivors in Dead Rising. It's really the only thing I'm confident they know how to use.
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(*Jman*)
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Kakatte Koi!

Crysta
Jan 26 2006, 10:20 PM
Excluding "under God" in a pledge doesn't mean you're not accepting someone else's beliefs. It just means you probably don't think we're under God. Considering the people we're fighting at the moment insist on calling this a holy war against their religion and our president seems to consider himself a mini-Messiah, our vaingloriousness probably doesn't help.

But erasing "under God" probably isn't going to change all this anyway. I don't think Osama is spending sleepless hours "burning up" over our Pledge of Allegiance. In essence, it's just two words. Our country is still overwhelmingly Christian and our founding fathers were mostly Christian. If it isn't there, it's gonna be somewhere else.

So liek, getting mad over whether or not it stays period is kinda' pointless.

100% correct. But the thing is, there are a lot of morons in this country who liek to cry and moan about everything.
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Crysta
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wat

There's equally annoying whining on both sides of the issue, really.
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GODonPCP
 
I always give frying pans to female survivors in Dead Rising. It's really the only thing I'm confident they know how to use.
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(*Jman*)
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Kakatte Koi!

Sadly, yes. Why are you so smart, Crysta?
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Cyrus


If an important American document directly mentions and accepts any one religion, then I would find that a little disturbing. God can be many things though, and people interpret god very differently. It is commonly depicted as the guiding hand in living a virtuous life.
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Soja
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Gentle Water, Crashing Waves

I was speaking from a strictly legal perspective. On the personal side of things, I grew up saying "Under God" in the pledge all my life. I never knew otherwise. Now, since we never say the Pledge out of school anyway, I don't care. I'm a U.S. Citizen and I pay taxes. If that's not a f#cking pledge then I don't know what is.

Throughout history, and even prehistory, religion has been exploited in order to rally zeal to a cause. Always has been, always shall be. Like Cyrus said, "God" could simply be the mortal name we give to a divine guiding force. (Even though that it is obviously linked to Christianity when invoked.) It's why Jews, Buddhists, and even Wiccans have not had spasm fests over it.

Another, more cynical perspective of mine as far as money is concerned is that "In God We Trust" is referential to the almighty dollar, since that is as close to a tangible god as we will come to in the U.S.
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Mirar on Sep 8 2007
06:08 PM
nigga please
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4. Repeat steps 1 and 2 again, getting suspended for a few days.
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7. Do all this in the course of a month.
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Prince_Lyon
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Seperation of church and state never once appeared in the constitution. If you want it there, add an ammendment. It's wrong. Just wrong. And editing out religeon from everythign is what the ammendment prevented. they are violating the ammendment, not us.
My dying Fire Emblem Board.

Lyon pwns you all.
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Soja
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Gentle Water, Crashing Waves

The U.S. Constitution is another lasagna altogether, Lyon. Conservatives will argue that it is meant to be adhered to in order to prevent the abuses that a rapidly changing government can inflict (Roman Empire, French Empire, Nazi Germany). Liberals will argue a policy of a "living, breathing Constitution," that the Constitution should evolve with society lest it become outmoded. The whole argument is roundabout and ridiculous, which is why Congress is called Congress instead of "Progress."
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Mirar on Sep 8 2007
06:08 PM
nigga please
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How to Get Banned From FEFF
1. Break a rule enough that a moderator has to verbally warn you.
2. Break a rule enough that a moderator has to actually warn you.
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2.
4. Repeat steps 1 and 2 again, getting suspended for a few days.
5. Repeat steps 1 and 2 yet again, getting suspended for a week and Underdogged.
6. Repeat steps 1 and 2.
7. Do all this in the course of a month.
8. ????
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Congratulations! You've been banned from FEFF!
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Brazy CK
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5 warnings=ban

Prince_Lyon
Jan 26 2006, 09:20 PM
Seperation of church and state never once appeared in the constitution. If you want it there, add an ammendment. It's wrong. Just wrong. And editing out religeon from everythign is what the ammendment prevented. they are violating the ammendment, not us.

The First Amendment
 
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."


It's paraphrased, but this basically explains the fact that the government can't pass laws that endorse or adhere to any religion, in other words, separation of church and state. =.
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