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Patriotism; More good or more bad?
Topic Started: Jan 30 2006, 03:01 AM (965 Views)
Reaver
Troll

No one spoke out against Iraq at first because the president made it seem like it was so great to give these people freedom that America has and estroy evil terrorists trying to take down our government. You speak against this message, you're against freedon or unpatriotic.

I relate taking Patriotism too far to McCarthyism, calling anyone who disagrees with you against your cause and making them unppopular in the public eye.
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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Crysta
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wat

This administration uses fear like a weapon. If you want them to protect you, that requires them to do whatever they want. If you vote for the other guy in the election, you're opening yourself to a terrorist attack. Protesting? You're unamerican and endangering our troops.

It's ridiculous.
~ Crysta, Zombie Queen
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GODonPCP
 
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harken89
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without the beat of a drum, the soul weakens on the march to the battle.

without patroiticism, you lose the will to fight in the battle.


too fast of a drum, you march faster and faster, and you become weak.

too much patroiticism, and you go into a fury, losing the control in the battle.



i'm not good with words but simply put, too much and you become full of yourself, not enough, and you lose the will to fight for your country
without the beat of a drum, the soul weakens on the march to the battle.
without patroiticism, you lose the will to fight in the battle.

too fast of a drum, you march faster and faster, and you become weak.
too much patroiticism, and you go into a fury, losing the control in the battle.

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Wind Sword
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SKILLNADEN ÄR DRINKABILITY

Ah, the true purpose for this topic shows up.

I don't suppose the idea they're actually being unpatriotic is out of the question. You really think any of the diehard liberals actually care about the troops? It's cannon fodder. OMG war, people are dying, what else is new? You think they say everyday on CNN, "Another person died AND IT'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT." because they care about the men and women. First person to mention Cindy Sheehan is simply f00lish.

Quote:
 
This administration uses fear like a weapon. If you want them to protect you, that requires them to do whatever they want. If you vote for the other guy in the election, you're opening yourself to a terrorist attack. Protesting? You're unamerican and endangering our troops.

That is an absurd accusation. I've never heard anything remotely close to what you just described. Bush never said voting for Kerry would lead to a terrorist attack.

I've read the Patriot Act. It does squat. It lets the government fight terrorists with warrants. It's the same thing as policemen. It's a bill with little purpose except to start a fund for fighting terrorism. It's Congress trying to make it seem like it's doing something, when in reality there's little to do.

Protesting=Unamerican? The Right of Free Speech is the greatest American freedom. Bush has to get used to that. His attacks on his opposition are ridicolous.
Except Michael Moore. He kinda deserves it.

Patriotism is enodrsed by both parties for a simple reason. When a government for the people is hated by the people, it collapses. But if you'd prefer supressive dictatorships, I could get a militia ready.
~~Wind Sword

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Please keep Christian bashing to a minimum. This is mainly the American South (and mainly Evangelical death cults), which is similar to Afghanistan under the Taliban.

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Brazy CK
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Quote:
 
Ah, the true purpose for this topic shows up.

I don't suppose the idea they're actually being unpatriotic is out of the question. You really think any of the diehard liberals actually care about the troops? It's cannon fodder. OMG war, people are dying, what else is new? You think they say everyday on CNN, "Another person died AND IT'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT." because they care about the men and women. First person to mention Cindy Sheehan is simply f00lish.


Let's try to stay away from generalizations, Mr. Debate Moderator. ;)
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harken89
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well spoken,


and it kinda is bushes fault troops are dieing,

we should never have tried to nogotiate with anyone, begged for u.n. help. bomb the place, let them rebuild, not us. There will always be suffering in war. i was in 4th grade when this happened, im in 8th grade now, we should have finished this shit before i finished the 4th grade, not while im rounding 8th grade and no end in sight!


in any event this is off topic
without the beat of a drum, the soul weakens on the march to the battle.
without patroiticism, you lose the will to fight in the battle.

too fast of a drum, you march faster and faster, and you become weak.
too much patroiticism, and you go into a fury, losing the control in the battle.

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Sentenal
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There is a difference between seriously debating an idea on whats best for the country, and debating an idea on whats best for your party, or (since you refuse to accept yours) ideology.

When debating, you have to be responsible for what exactly the result of your actions are. For example, saying "The President is the biggest terrorist in the world" is irresponisble, does no good, and would just give "aid and comfort" to our current enemies. However, if you say "I don't agree with the President's actions on X, I think we should do this instead...", is responsible disagreement. See the difference? If you are liberal, and you disagree with something Bush does, I have no problem with you disagreeing, as long as its responible (like above). Its a patriotic thing to argue for what you think is in this countrys best interest. I think you guys get the point.
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Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
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Crysta
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wat

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That is an absurd accusation. I've never heard anything remotely close to what you just described. Bush never said voting for Kerry would lead to a terrorist attack.


Cheney did. I said the administration uses it.

Do I have to go searching for the article?

The die-hard liberals care just as much as the die-hard conservatives. Unless you know every die-hard liberal, I don't think you should say what they care about. The die-hard liberals have their sons in there, too, ya' know.

No one said we're hating the country. The topic is about people loving it blindly, and it has repeatedly been said that hating it blindly is just as bad.

Quote:
 
There is a difference between seriously debating an idea on whats best for the country, and debating an idea on whats best for your party, or (since you refuse to accept yours) ideology.


I guess what's best for your country never correlates with what a political party wants? I thought that's what they always strived for.

Quote:
 
When debating, you have to be responsible for what exactly the result of your actions are. For example, saying "The President is the biggest terrorist in the world" is irresponisble, does no good, and would just give "aid and comfort" to our current enemies.


I doubt words aid them much. They have plenty of that over there for comfort. It's an exaggeration to say someone's opinion actually matters in the long run. It doesn't. It's someone's opinion.
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GODonPCP
 
I always give frying pans to female survivors in Dead Rising. It's really the only thing I'm confident they know how to use.
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harken89
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i do, i dont know about everyone else
without the beat of a drum, the soul weakens on the march to the battle.
without patroiticism, you lose the will to fight in the battle.

too fast of a drum, you march faster and faster, and you become weak.
too much patroiticism, and you go into a fury, losing the control in the battle.

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Sentenal
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Won the Impossible Debate (twice)

Quote:
 
I doubt words aid them much. They have plenty of that over there for comfort. It's an exaggeration to say someone's opinion actually matters in the long run. It doesn't. It's someone's opinion.

You don't think that prominent American leaders villifing our president wouldn't be a moral boost to our enemy?
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Quote:
 
Laharl: 48/2(9+3)=36
Quote:
 
Laharl: Also, you can't multiply a number by one.
Quote:
 
Laharl: 1 cannot be used as a multiplier.
Quote:
 
Laharl: I wasn't good at math. That doesn't make me an idiot!
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Crysta
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wat

Sentenal
Jan 31 2006, 04:33 AM
Quote:
 
I doubt words aid them much. They have plenty of that over there for comfort. It's an exaggeration to say someone's opinion actually matters in the long run. It doesn't. It's someone's opinion.

You don't think that prominent American leaders villifing our president wouldn't be a moral boost to our enemy?

No.

I'm not even sure most of them understand us.
~ Crysta, Zombie Queen
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GODonPCP
 
I always give frying pans to female survivors in Dead Rising. It's really the only thing I'm confident they know how to use.
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Reaver
Troll

Quote:
 
I don't suppose the idea they're actually being unpatriotic is out of the question. You really think any of the diehard liberals actually care about the troops? It's cannon fodder. OMG war, people are dying, what else is new? You think they say everyday on CNN, "Another person died AND IT'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT." because they care about the men and women. First person to mention Cindy Sheehan is simply f00lish.
Might I mention almost cleanly a year ago, my cousin was killed in Iraq? Don't say that people like me use him as cannon fodder, that makes me a sad Reaver. :(

Quote:
 
You don't think that prominent American leaders villifing our president wouldn't be a moral boost to our enemy?
Does that matter to them? :huh: I doubt they give two shits who our leader is, they hate us because we're us, no excuse for it.
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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Soja
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Gentle Water, Crashing Waves

Presidents overstep their 'power of authority' in wartime all the time. And there has always been dissent to this because of the fear that we would become an imperial dictatorship in the manner of France or Rome. It happened when Lincoln started imprisoning Confederate sympathizers in Maryland without warrant or due process. It happened again during WWI and WWII when the U.S. government seized most manufacturing facilities to put them towards the construction and support of the Almighty American War Machine. During the Cold War, Americans were phone tapped with even more impunity than we are supposedly being today. BY DEMOCRATS, BTW. (Hypocrisy Sense tingling)

It's a silent rule that the Presidents always make things right or at least return them to their pre-war state once the conflict is resolved. Elder Statesman Ben Franklin once said, with me probably paraphrasing, that, "He is a fool that would give up liberty for security." But it happens, because people will become afraid fear-mongering or not.

Patriotism is always good. But like many good things, you can have too much of it. If you are so patriotic that some nimrod in France calling us ignorant buffoons makes you cry, get into therapy NOW. But if you were pissed and insulted like I and so many New Orleaneans were when France thought it was funny to offer a few hundred TENTS as Katrina relief aid, there's nothing wrong with that.

On a side-note, calling modern day Democrats prominent American leaders is a joke. And not a funny one.
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Mirar on Sep 8 2007
06:08 PM
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Greth (OLD)
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There is a light that never goes out...

I personally find American patrionism to be an extreme, which is good for it's people.

Granted I still like europe more, America need's it patriotism.
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Greth
Feb 1 2006, 01:04 AM
I personally find American patrionism to be an extreme, which is good for it's people.

Granted I still like europe more, America need's it patriotism.

Please speak understandable English in future posts. American patriotism varies across the spectrum from "OMG, AMERICANS ARE GODS, EVERYONE ELSE SUX" to "Mmyeah. I like this country more than other ones." Unfortunately, there are too many of the former that exist, and thus I feel that Patriotism rly shouldn't go that far.
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