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Rutger vs Dieck in HM
Topic Started: Jan 2 2007, 12:40 PM (1,173 Views)
C475_1337
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One serious d00d

I think Rutger's HM Boosts make it a fair contest. I lean towards Rutger, but I'm not really sure, which is ofcourse why I made this topic.

Discuss.
Reikken: I'm halfway through reading it, but it's so bad; I can't finish.

---

Inui: You say Ilia holds more weight, but I don't, since Shin >>> Pegs and Sacae is more fun due to enemies that aren't fail and not having to move through forests all day.

---

SACAE. It's more fun than Ilia.
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Merk
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ザワザワ

I'm inclined to say Rutger as well. Dieck has two distinct advantages; better supports, and postpromotion Axes. Other than that, though, I think Rutger wins performance in general (offensive and defensive statistics).

Dieck's 30% SPD growth really hurts him. >_>;
~AKA SkyFireZero.
a r p s
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C475_1337
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One serious d00d

I'd say 30% Crit boost > Axes > 15% Crit boost. This is especially true if we're talking about FE6's crappy Axes, but I'd be inclined to say it's true regardless.

I also see Rutger winning the Supports, actually. Most of the time it's going to be a Rutger/Dieck/Clarine Support triangle; Rutger x Dieck cancels, and of the two, Rutger's Clarine Support is much faster. Rutger x Clarine is likely to be the A Support of the triangle.

Dieck's Affinity is better; he gets +1 Def over Rutger from it in the big picture, but I don't see this as being enough to make up for the slower Clarine Support.
Reikken: I'm halfway through reading it, but it's so bad; I can't finish.

---

Inui: You say Ilia holds more weight, but I don't, since Shin >>> Pegs and Sacae is more fun due to enemies that aren't fail and not having to move through forests all day.

---

SACAE. It's more fun than Ilia.
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Tzomg


Dieck is a slightly better Armorslayer user for a few chapters, which happen to come before Lugh gets to be a dependable unit for taking out high armor units.

In the long run Dieck fades, though. Partly that's because all of the ridiculous hard mode bonus characters start rolling in, but his speed and promoted class don't help. Just hitting enemies is difficult, so his monster Con mostly just ends up allowing him to miss with axes or the inaccurate heavy swords at his low full speed.
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Hollie
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Resident Brit

I'd be more inclined to say Dieck; Swordmasters don't get much love from me in the first place, but at even levels, Fir is almost certainly better than Rutger. Although Rutger has a large level lead, by the time your units start promoting, Fir will have caught up, and at that point it becomes Skl, Def and HP vs Spd, Res and Luk; I'm say that Fir wins - the Luk and small speed advvantage gives her a nice boost in avoid, which is what these two are relying on. Fir has enough skill already, and the Res is nice against the accurate magicians.

Thus, in my eyes, there isn't much point in using Rutger (not that I'm a huge fan of Fir, either). Dieck has other support options than Rutger and Clarine, as well, namely Klein and Lott. Klein's not a bad character in his own right, and Lott's pretty good as well, but doesn't have any decent options apart from Dieck (Anima X Thunder is a pretty decent support, as well; full Def, Evade and CrtEvd.). Lance is good; but he wants Alan/Roy and it's a fairly slow support anyway.

Dieck stays a pretty beastly character for the whole game, though lack of HM bonuses means he's outclassed by beasts like Miledy and Shin (IMO, at least).
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Merk
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ザワザワ

He has lots of SKL, and really never has problems hitting anything.

Quote:
 
Rutger (Darkness):
Clarine (Thunder, 10/+2)
Dayan (Reason, 1/+1)
Dieck (Thunder, 10/+1)
Karel (Light, 1/+1)
Fil (Flame, 1/+1)

Dieck (Thunder):
Wade (Flame, 10/+2)
Lot (Reason, 10/+2)
Thany (Wind, 10/+2)
Clarine (Thunder, 1/+1)
Klein (Ice, 40/+1)
Rutger (Darkness, 10/+1)

Dayan almost certainly isn't being played. Supporting Karel means lacking some support for ~20 chapters, which is silly. I don't see a good reason for playing both Rutger and Fir, personally.

Wade probably isn't being played, but Lott can vy for a spot on the team. Thany and Klein also may make the team.

If none of these units are being played, though, Rutger does win supports.

Despite the Lance x Lott support being slow, I'd say it's worth it; full STR, DEF, RES, Evade%, and CEv% is amazing. STR is patching up both unit's weak points, DEF turns Lott from tanky to Generalish, Evade% gives both of them more durability, and CEv% patches Lance's low LCK. It's also, IMO, one of the more entertaining supports.
~AKA SkyFireZero.
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Inui
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Power of Flower

I lean towards Dieck because he wins the earlygame by being your best unit besides Marcus until around chapter 10. Dieck's class gives him the win in the endgame.

Rutger wins the midgame due to his SPD wins, but after promotion, Dieck gets some nice SPD/DEF and use of axes is splendid against all of those damn wyverns.
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Hollie
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Mamoru Takamura
Jan 3 2007, 01:04 AM
Despite the Lance x Lott support being slow, I'd say it's worth it; full STR, DEF, RES, Evade%, and CEv% is amazing. STR is patching up both unit's weak points, DEF turns Lott from tanky to Generalish, Evade% gives both of them more durability, and CEv% patches Lance's low LCK. It's also, IMO, one of the more entertaining supports.

OSHI-

I forgot that it was Anima x Anima. Hmm.
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Phoenix Wright
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that moron that forgot this is s11

Well, that means Lott wants B Dieck for full defensive gains to make him nigh-General defensively.

That leaves Dieck with an A from anyone else on that list he wants.
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Fraulein Holls
Sep 14 2008, 06:16 PM
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>> Metallica wub all of a sudden

Say, I know a member currently going by Ron DeLite who also loves Metallica, you two should totally hook up.
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rofl Chris
 
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Merk
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ザワザワ

My current game:

Clarine A Dieck B Lott A Lance B Alan A Roy B Lalum (Does Lalum support Percival?)

Not to mention +5 DEF from Armads :sentenal:
~AKA SkyFireZero.
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Hollie
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Resident Brit

Lalum does indeed support Percival.
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C475_1337
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One serious d00d

Quote:
 
I'd be more inclined to say Dieck; Swordmasters don't get much love from me in the first place, but at even levels, Fir is almost certainly better than Rutger. Although Rutger has a large level lead, by the time your units start promoting, Fir will have caught up, and at that point it becomes Skl, Def and HP vs Spd, Res and Luk; I'm say that Fir wins - the Luk and small speed advvantage gives her a nice boost in avoid, which is what these two are relying on. Fir has enough skill already, and the Res is nice against the accurate magicians.


I don’t see how this matters. The topic is Dieck vs Rutger, not Fir vs Rutger. If Fir > Rutger > Dieck, then you’d use Fir and Rutger if allowed to use 2 of the 3.

Quote:
 
Dieck has other support options than Rutger and Clarine, as well, namely Klein and Lott. Klein's not a bad character in his own right, and Lott's pretty good as well, but doesn't have any decent options apart from Dieck (Anima X Thunder is a pretty decent support, as well; full Def, Evade and CrtEvd.). Lance is good; but he wants Alan/Roy and it's a fairly slow support anyway.


Klein joins much later. Dieck would prefer Clarine and Rutger.

Lott doesn’t impress me as a unit. And Lance does want to Support him if he’s played; Anima x Anima > Anima x Fire. Regardless, Rutger/Dieck/Clarine are almost certainly being played and they all want to Support each other almost without question.

Quote:
 
I lean towards Dieck because he wins the earlygame by being your best unit besides Marcus until around chapter 10. Dieck's class gives him the win in the endgame.


Hm?

10/0 HM Rutger
30.3 Hp
10.6 Str
17.6 Skl
18.0 Spd
5.3 Luck
7.0 Def
2.1 Res
7 Con

10/0 Dieck
30.5 Hp
11.0 Str
14.0 Skl
11.5 Spd
6.8 Luck
7.0 Def
1.8 Res
13 Con

Dieck has almost no advantages at all. How is he winning? They have about the same Str but Rutger has much more Spd(and yes, Rutger’s Spd > Dieck’s Con); about the same Hp and Def but Rutger has much more Avo.

Like I said earlier, I’d say 30% Crit > Axes > 15% Crit, so promoted classes just helps Rutger if anything.
Reikken: I'm halfway through reading it, but it's so bad; I can't finish.

---

Inui: You say Ilia holds more weight, but I don't, since Shin >>> Pegs and Sacae is more fun due to enemies that aren't fail and not having to move through forests all day.

---

SACAE. It's more fun than Ilia.
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Admin
There is a light that never goes out...

In my experience, Rutger's SPD is a bit overkill, while Dieck is able to use heavier weapons and still double people Chapter 5 and 6, for example, Dieck rapes.

Dieck comes about two and half chapters earlier than Rutger, one level higher than him. Rutger is double attacking alot of things, but its not like Dieck isn't double attacking anything.

Also, Wyverns are the hardest enemy units in the game, and Dieck getting Axes to use against them is very helpful. 30% crit against them is nice, but that is still 70% of the time when you miss it.
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C475_1337
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One serious d00d

Quote:
 
In my experience, Rutger's SPD is a bit overkill, while Dieck is able to use heavier weapons and still double people Chapter 5 and 6, for example, Dieck rapes.


Even when both are fully weighed down, 10/0 HM Rutger is still slightly faster than 10/0 Dieck. When they're not weighed down(or not fully weighed down), which is the case most of the time, Rutger is substantially faster.

Quote:
 
Rutger is double attacking alot of things, but its not like Dieck isn't double attacking anything.


No, but Rutger is still DAing things that Dieck isn't, and I just don't see what Dieck has to fight back with.
Reikken: I'm halfway through reading it, but it's so bad; I can't finish.

---

Inui: You say Ilia holds more weight, but I don't, since Shin >>> Pegs and Sacae is more fun due to enemies that aren't fail and not having to move through forests all day.

---

SACAE. It's more fun than Ilia.
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Admin
There is a light that never goes out...

I think a point in Dieck's favor would be he has had more chapters to grow by the time you get Rutger. When you get Rutger, Dieck is like level 7 or 8.

I dunno, I've never sat down and looked at them side by side, but Dieck has always been more useful than Rutger in my opinion.
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