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| Marcus: Jeigan or Oifaye? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 4 2007, 09:43 PM (881 Views) | |
| Reaver | Jan 7 2007, 06:22 PM Post #31 |
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Troll
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Since this was ignored in the paladin thread...
I disagree, pregame usefulness vs. mid-game "challenge" and post game failure is just the opposite side of the pregame suck vs. midgame "challenge" vs. late game awesomeness. By challenge I do mean both units can compete, I couldn't find a way to word it. Totalling Average Stats and Growths... Jeigan 40% growths 72.6 overall stats Oifaye 325% growths 178 Stats ]Marcus: FE6 185% Overall growths 128 Stats Do the subtraction, and FE6 Marcus is 5% closer to Oifaye in growths than he is to Jeigan. Marcus is also 5.4 stats closer to Oifaye. He's an Oifaye, ggnore. That just stands to prove my point. You can't use Jeigan as the standard because he sucks WAY too much. You need to stop using Jeigan as the base because he's so off the scales you can't base an archetype around him. |
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| Inui | Jan 7 2007, 07:53 PM Post #32 |
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Power of Flower
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God damnit you idiots. FE [size=14]7[/size] Marcus. Stop bringing up n00b FE 6 Marcus. We all know he's a Jeigan. |
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| Phoenix Wright | Jan 7 2007, 08:08 PM Post #33 |
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that moron that forgot this is s11
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Except for the part where Reaver showed that, if you look at stats alone like you're doing, FE6 Marcus is an [size=23]OIFAYE[/size]. The point is that statistical comparisons between the characters in the Jeigan archetype aren't gonna help in this one. |
Previously: Ron DeLite, Simon
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| Inui | Jan 7 2007, 08:11 PM Post #34 |
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Power of Flower
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Except Reaver was comparing FE 6 Marcus to a unit in a game where all caps were 20, which puts it on an entirely different scale. :richie: FE 6 Marcus is unusable once the midgame hits. Thus, not Oifaye. |
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| Kovu | Jan 7 2007, 08:28 PM Post #35 |
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Zidane was always entitled to 12 MOV!
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If I had a levelup for everytime I read the words "Oifaye" or "Jeigan" I'd be one powerful Lion. Anyway. Obviously Marcus is inbetween the two classifications and really, could be called either to a point of accuracy. You're not going to call him one without someone else bringing up his weak points or strong points pushing him towards the other. I, myself, consider him more of a Jeigan, but that's just me. ~ Kovu |
![]() Famous Quotes Kovu's Awards Formerly known as: Zidane, Miroku, Kovutachi, Artemis, Phantom Judge.
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| Phoenix Wright | Jan 7 2007, 08:28 PM Post #36 |
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that moron that forgot this is s11
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Oh, really? That didn't stop you from trying to make a comparison between FE7 Marcus and multiple Jeigans with 20s for caps to begin with. If you wanna do it that way, let's take FE6 Marcus - a Jeigan without all 20s for caps - and compare FE7 Marcus to him and Oifaye. Oifaye: Total Growths 315% (320% w/Mag), Total Non-Stagnants 167.3 (177 w/Mag) FE6 Marcus: Total Growths 185%, Total Non-Stagnants 128 FE7 Marcus: Total Growths 250%, Total Non-Stagnants 145 Hmm... FE7 Marcus has 65 more growths than FE6 Marcus and 70 less growths than Oifaye. More Jeigan than Oifaye, though tied if Oifaye's Mag is dropped. FE7 Marcus has 17 more non-stagnants than FE6 Marcus and 22.3 less non-stagnants than Oifaye. More Jeigan, and the difference increases from a 5.3 gap to a 15 gap with Oifaye's Mag. FE7 Marcus is, statistically speaking, more Jeigan than Oifaye. EDIT: Directed to Vegeta. |
Previously: Ron DeLite, Simon
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| Reaver | Jan 7 2007, 10:33 PM Post #37 |
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Troll
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Yeah, whereas you comparing it to the original game to a unit with 40% overall growths and 72.6 overall average stats is so much better. FE6 Marcus is definetely a Jeigan, but in actuality he's an Oifaye. Perhaps that hints that going purely by statistics and using past units is flawed? FE7 Marcus is a Jeigan because, statistically, he is outshined by most of your other units. That's what Jeigans are. Oifayes are units that are paladins, come early in the game, and can compete statistically later in the game. |
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| Inui | Jan 7 2007, 10:34 PM Post #38 |
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Power of Flower
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The original Oifaye is outshined by most of your units in the lategame, too.
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| Admin | Jan 8 2007, 01:31 AM Post #39 |
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There is a light that never goes out...
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I don't like Archetypes. I generally consider Oifaye a type of Jeigan. A sub-archetype, if you will. Anyway, a few points: @Reaver: You say that FE6 Marcus is close to an Oifaye, because of his stats. Then you say that FE7 Marcus is a Jeigan, because he is outclassed by all the other units lategame? While true, FE6 Marcus isn't even usable lategame. FE7 Marcus is. As Luke said, even Oifaye doesn't measure up to units in his game. He is in Fire Emblem freaking 4, Second Generation, where ALL children are statistical monsters. @Luke: Archetypes suck. |
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| Hatake Asuka | Jan 8 2007, 01:33 AM Post #40 |
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Gakutorishiusu
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I just love how people bring the 'outshined by other units' into it. Jeigan wasn't just outshined. He sucked lategame FE7 Marcus does not suck lategame. He's a perfectly fine unit that could rape Easy Mode on his own. I don't see Jeigan doing that. |
![]() Many thanks to Chozo Lord for the awesome signature containing Sexy Saleh®. Formerly: | |
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| Nick | Jan 8 2007, 11:07 AM Post #41 |
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Brit
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I say, chaps and chapesses, I believe the word is "outshone", doncha know? Personally, I don't think in Archetypes at all apart from cranking out the old "Cain/Abel" thing for Alan/Lance etc. This is probably because I'm just too inexperienced with FE games to really know what I'm talking about. However, if I had to choose between the choices given, going on what I've heard about the two archetypes, I'd say FE7 Marcus is an Oifaye. |
| OKs 4 lief | |
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| VincentASM | Jan 8 2007, 03:45 PM Post #42 |
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Why is Shinon a Jeigan/Oifey? Marcus is clearly a helping unit. |
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Serenes Forest (Fire Emblem info here~) | |
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| Reaver | Jan 8 2007, 06:39 PM Post #43 |
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Troll
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No, I believe that I used Marcus to show an example of why you cannot base an archetype off of a particularly sucky unit then compare, with stats, archetypes. FE6 Marcus is 100% Jeigan, but statistically he is "Oifaye". I still think FE7 Marcus is a Jeigan. Sorry for the confusion. |
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| Phoenix Wright | Jan 8 2007, 06:42 PM Post #44 |
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that moron that forgot this is s11
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What was this ignored? I think I showed here that if you're running solely off of statistics, FE7 Marcus is a Jeigan. :richie: |
Previously: Ron DeLite, Simon
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| Inui | Jan 8 2007, 06:44 PM Post #45 |
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Power of Flower
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Comparing him to his FE 6 self, he is indeed closer to Jeigan. |
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