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Marcus: Jeigan or Oifaye?
Topic Started: Jan 4 2007, 09:43 PM (881 Views)
Reaver
Troll

Since this was ignored in the paladin thread...

Vegeta
Jan 5 2007, 09:35 PM
No, FE 6 Marcus is not closer to Oifaye level than Jeigan level.  His stats are far closer to Jeigans than Oifayes.

Isadora's stats don't matter.  Everything is better than a Jeigan, even Matthew. 

Isadora isn't even in the Jeigan/Oifaye archetype, she's a just a normal prepromo.

I disagree, pregame usefulness vs. mid-game "challenge" and post game failure is just the opposite side of the pregame suck vs. midgame "challenge" vs. late game awesomeness.

By challenge I do mean both units can compete, I couldn't find a way to word it. Totalling Average Stats and Growths...


Jeigan
40% growths
72.6 overall stats

Oifaye
325% growths
178 Stats

]Marcus: FE6
185% Overall growths
128 Stats

Do the subtraction, and FE6 Marcus is 5% closer to Oifaye in growths than he is to Jeigan. Marcus is also 5.4 stats closer to Oifaye. He's an Oifaye, ggnore.

That just stands to prove my point. You can't use Jeigan as the standard because he sucks WAY too much. You need to stop using Jeigan as the base because he's so off the scales you can't base an archetype around him.
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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Inui
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Power of Flower

God damnit you idiots.

FE [size=14]7[/size] Marcus.

Stop bringing up n00b FE 6 Marcus. We all know he's a Jeigan.
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Phoenix Wright
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that moron that forgot this is s11

Vegeta
Jan 7 2007, 06:53 PM
God damnit you idiots.

FE [size=14]7[/size] Marcus.

Stop bringing up n00b FE 6 Marcus. We all know he's a Jeigan.

Except for the part where Reaver showed that, if you look at stats alone like you're doing, FE6 Marcus is an [size=23]OIFAYE[/size].

The point is that statistical comparisons between the characters in the Jeigan archetype aren't gonna help in this one.
Wirt
 
I conquered the world with nothing but diarrhea and depression.

Previously: Ron DeLite, Simon
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Fraulein Holls
Sep 14 2008, 06:16 PM
Some Kind Of Monster - Metallica

>> Metallica wub all of a sudden

Say, I know a member currently going by Ron DeLite who also loves Metallica, you two should totally hook up.
God of Thunder - KISS

rofl Chris
 
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someone
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me*
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Inui
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Except Reaver was comparing FE 6 Marcus to a unit in a game where all caps were 20, which puts it on an entirely different scale. :richie:

FE 6 Marcus is unusable once the midgame hits. Thus, not Oifaye.
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Kovu
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Zidane was always entitled to 12 MOV!

If I had a levelup for everytime I read the words "Oifaye" or "Jeigan" I'd be one powerful Lion.

Anyway. Obviously Marcus is inbetween the two classifications and really, could be called either to a point of accuracy. You're not going to call him one without someone else bringing up his weak points or strong points pushing him towards the other.

I, myself, consider him more of a Jeigan, but that's just me.

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Phoenix Wright
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that moron that forgot this is s11

Oh, really? That didn't stop you from trying to make a comparison between FE7 Marcus and multiple Jeigans with 20s for caps to begin with.

If you wanna do it that way, let's take FE6 Marcus - a Jeigan without all 20s for caps - and compare FE7 Marcus to him and Oifaye.

Oifaye: Total Growths 315% (320% w/Mag), Total Non-Stagnants 167.3 (177 w/Mag)
FE6 Marcus: Total Growths 185%, Total Non-Stagnants 128
FE7 Marcus: Total Growths 250%, Total Non-Stagnants 145

Hmm...

FE7 Marcus has 65 more growths than FE6 Marcus and 70 less growths than Oifaye. More Jeigan than Oifaye, though tied if Oifaye's Mag is dropped.
FE7 Marcus has 17 more non-stagnants than FE6 Marcus and 22.3 less non-stagnants than Oifaye. More Jeigan, and the difference increases from a 5.3 gap to a 15 gap with Oifaye's Mag.

FE7 Marcus is, statistically speaking, more Jeigan than Oifaye.

EDIT: Directed to Vegeta.
Wirt
 
I conquered the world with nothing but diarrhea and depression.

Previously: Ron DeLite, Simon
Reaver for the lulz
 
Fraulein Holls
Sep 14 2008, 06:16 PM
Some Kind Of Monster - Metallica

>> Metallica wub all of a sudden

Say, I know a member currently going by Ron DeLite who also loves Metallica, you two should totally hook up.
God of Thunder - KISS

rofl Chris
 
Chris says:
you know what
Chris says:
someone
Chris says:
once said to be
Chris says:
me*
Chris says:
when someone did
Chris says:
d(-_-)b
Chris says:
wtf, how'd they invert the b?
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Reaver
Troll

Vegeta
Jan 7 2007, 08:11 PM
Except Reaver was comparing FE 6 Marcus to a unit in a game where all caps were 20, which puts it on an entirely different scale. :richie:

FE 6 Marcus is unusable once the midgame hits. Thus, not Oifaye.

Yeah, whereas you comparing it to the original game to a unit with 40% overall growths and 72.6 overall average stats is so much better. FE6 Marcus is definetely a Jeigan, but in actuality he's an Oifaye. Perhaps that hints that going purely by statistics and using past units is flawed?

FE7 Marcus is a Jeigan because, statistically, he is outshined by most of your other units. That's what Jeigans are. Oifayes are units that are paladins, come early in the game, and can compete statistically later in the game.
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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Inui
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The original Oifaye is outshined by most of your units in the lategame, too. :tom:
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Admin
There is a light that never goes out...

I don't like Archetypes. I generally consider Oifaye a type of Jeigan. A sub-archetype, if you will. Anyway, a few points:

@Reaver: You say that FE6 Marcus is close to an Oifaye, because of his stats. Then you say that FE7 Marcus is a Jeigan, because he is outclassed by all the other units lategame? While true, FE6 Marcus isn't even usable lategame. FE7 Marcus is. As Luke said, even Oifaye doesn't measure up to units in his game. He is in Fire Emblem freaking 4, Second Generation, where ALL children are statistical monsters.

@Luke: Archetypes suck.
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Hatake Asuka
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Gakutorishiusu

I just love how people bring the 'outshined by other units' into it. Jeigan wasn't just outshined. He sucked lategame

FE7 Marcus does not suck lategame. He's a perfectly fine unit that could rape Easy Mode on his own. I don't see Jeigan doing that.
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Nick
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Brit

I say, chaps and chapesses, I believe the word is "outshone", doncha know?

Personally, I don't think in Archetypes at all apart from cranking out the old "Cain/Abel" thing for Alan/Lance etc. This is probably because I'm just too inexperienced with FE games to really know what I'm talking about. However, if I had to choose between the choices given, going on what I've heard about the two archetypes, I'd say FE7 Marcus is an Oifaye.
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VincentASM
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Why is Shinon a Jeigan/Oifey?

Marcus is clearly a helping unit.
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Reaver
Troll

Sentenal
Jan 8 2007, 01:31 AM
@Reaver: You say that FE6 Marcus is close to an Oifaye, because of his stats. Then you say that FE7 Marcus is a Jeigan, because he is outclassed by all the other units lategame? While true, FE6 Marcus isn't even usable lategame. FE7 Marcus is. As Luke said, even Oifaye doesn't measure up to units in his game. He is in Fire Emblem freaking 4, Second Generation, where ALL children are statistical monsters.

No, I believe that I used Marcus to show an example of why you cannot base an archetype off of a particularly sucky unit then compare, with stats, archetypes. FE6 Marcus is 100% Jeigan, but statistically he is "Oifaye". I still think FE7 Marcus is a Jeigan. Sorry for the confusion.
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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Phoenix Wright
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that moron that forgot this is s11

Mario123v2
Jan 7 2007, 07:28 PM
Oh, really? That didn't stop you from trying to make a comparison between FE7 Marcus and multiple Jeigans with 20s for caps to begin with.

If you wanna do it that way, let's take FE6 Marcus - a Jeigan without all 20s for caps - and compare FE7 Marcus to him and Oifaye.

Oifaye: Total Growths 315% (320% w/Mag), Total Non-Stagnants 167.3 (177 w/Mag)
FE6 Marcus: Total Growths 185%, Total Non-Stagnants 128
FE7 Marcus: Total Growths 250%, Total Non-Stagnants 145

Hmm...

FE7 Marcus has 65 more growths than FE6 Marcus and 70 less growths than Oifaye. More Jeigan than Oifaye, though tied if Oifaye's Mag is dropped.
FE7 Marcus has 17 more non-stagnants than FE6 Marcus and 22.3 less non-stagnants than Oifaye. More Jeigan, and the difference increases from a 5.3 gap to a 15 gap with Oifaye's Mag.

FE7 Marcus is, statistically speaking, more Jeigan than Oifaye.

EDIT: Directed to Vegeta.

What was this ignored? I think I showed here that if you're running solely off of statistics, FE7 Marcus is a Jeigan. :richie:
Wirt
 
I conquered the world with nothing but diarrhea and depression.

Previously: Ron DeLite, Simon
Reaver for the lulz
 
Fraulein Holls
Sep 14 2008, 06:16 PM
Some Kind Of Monster - Metallica

>> Metallica wub all of a sudden

Say, I know a member currently going by Ron DeLite who also loves Metallica, you two should totally hook up.
God of Thunder - KISS

rofl Chris
 
Chris says:
you know what
Chris says:
someone
Chris says:
once said to be
Chris says:
me*
Chris says:
when someone did
Chris says:
d(-_-)b
Chris says:
wtf, how'd they invert the b?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Inui
Member Avatar
Power of Flower

Comparing him to his FE 6 self, he is indeed closer to Jeigan.
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