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Which characters fall into the Low Tier category?; Debate stuffz
Topic Started: Mar 2 2007, 01:19 AM (1,773 Views)
Percival
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Knight General of Eutria

She has 4 base strength. Awesome. So easy to train. She's not DAing in a while. Louise comes ready to DA and with a Silver Bow. Babying maybe be "easy", but seriously, if she had some trouble NM, how about HM?

Her supports aren't that good. Awesome. Lowen will be away supporting with Marcus and Eliwood, much faster supports. Raven and Sain also have faster supports. And better support options. They don't need attack because they have awesome Strength to begin with and are one rounding most opponents regardless.

Faster supports>"Better" supports because you get them throughout more of the game, rather than some of the game. And supports give bonuses regardless of how good they are.
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I'm pretty damn sexy with these stats...
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C475_1337
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One serious d00d

If your mentality is "Rebecca, Wil, Bartre and Dorcas aren't worth training," the exact same mindset tells us "Louise, Hawkeye and Jaffar aren't worth using." These are Low Tier units; most teams will not include them.

The question is, in the event that you do choose to use them, who is better?
Reikken: I'm halfway through reading it, but it's so bad; I can't finish.

---

Inui: You say Ilia holds more weight, but I don't, since Shin >>> Pegs and Sacae is more fun due to enemies that aren't fail and not having to move through forests all day.

---

SACAE. It's more fun than Ilia.
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Percival
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Knight General of Eutria

I only said Bartre and Rebecca because they are tough to raise. Guys that can fight when they come are the ones I like. It's kinda simple logic.

I kinda like Wil and Dorcas. They do well from the start, and only Dorcas is the one ending up meh. And he isn't getting DA as much as everyone thinks.

With your logic, I can prove Marcus isn't worth it in HHM because he ends up meh.
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I'm pretty damn sexy with these stats...
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Light Yagami
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As dog as a Fetch

Actually, Becca IS a bit harder to raise. Even though she has the Spd advantage, she won't be doubling as soon as people expect her to. Wil is sturdy all around and has the Wind Support to make up for any lack of Avoid he may have. And hey, he supports with some Higher tier units like Raven, Lyn, and Rath (I think Rath is in the higher teirs...maybe). Becca has that nifty Fire support.

I beleive you gain A LOT more from using Wil than using Becca. I also believe Wil and/or Becca> Louise.

I don't think that a unit is awsome of all she/he has is a support advantage over other units. If anything, Supports are just bonuses, IMO. Both Wil and Becca outclass Louise as individual units.
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Inui
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Power of Flower

STARSHOOP WOOPER
Mar 5 2007, 07:12 PM
Wil and Rebecca are already beating down Louise, and Bartre/Dorcas are doing the same to Hawkeye.  Jaffar has no practical use in the first place.

What?

Wil is too slow and Rebecca is too weak. Louise starts off great and has an A support with Pent ready to go. I don't want to baby Rebecca. She needs more babying and handholding than any unit in the entire game except Nino. Fuck that. Wil is slow. He's always slow. It takes forever for him to start DAing things consistently, and his durability is always bad. Low DEF/RES/Evd combo = fail.

I don't want to waste support slots on Rebecca, since Lowen and her other options would want other units more. Same goes for Wil.

LOL Dorcas? MAYBE Bartre beats out Hawkeye, but Dorcas sure as hell does not.
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Percival
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Knight General of Eutria

Quote:
 
Wil and/or Becca> Louise.


Usability>"Stats". Being good for most of the game>Being good trained up. It's so logical and simple. Idk what's the problem.

If stats>usability, Nino>all.

Louise>Becca. Louise is usable from the getgo, DAing from the start, Silver Bow and A Pent. Rebecca needs babying and has meh supports. She's not useful whatsoever and can slow you down if you use her. She can't kill Pegasus Knights early on. Louise is killing everything but Vaida in her chapter.
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I'm pretty damn sexy with these stats...
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Inui
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Power of Flower

Inui's Debate Data
 
Chapter 26: Unfulfilled Heart

Louise: Level 4 Sniper
HP: 28
STR: 12
SKL: 14
SPD: 17
LUK: 16
DEF: 9
RES: 12


36 starting enemies.  41 Reinforcements.  77 total enemies.  50 Wyvern Riders.

You don't want to engage in combat with Vaida due to the Uber Spear and her being recruitable later on, anyways. 

Steel Bow Louise one-rounds all 50 Wyvern Riders, the Sage, and all of the Nomads down south, and the 7 unpromoted magicians are easily slain even by an Iron Bow.  Killing the two Archers and the Myrmidon down south would be easy for her, but she's really far away from them.  My point is that Louise starts off able to kill almost every enemy in the chapter, without having to resort to Silver/Killer weapons.  Steel/Iron works fine enough.

Pent and Louise are juggernauts up north, protecting and assisting your unpromoted Lords.  Lyn or Eliwood can promote now, but they will still be weaker than Pent and struggle against the horde of Wyvern Riders.  If Lyn promotes first, she can do fine with bows.  Anyone need healing?  Pent can heal from halfway across the map with his Physic staff, and he can use any other staff.  Yes, he's the only magic user besides Serra and Priscilla that can use every staff in the game at this point.



Chapter 27: Pale Flower of Darkness

Pent: Level 7 Sage
HP: 33.5
MAG: 18.3
SKL: 21.2
SPD: 17.4
LUK: 14.4
DEF: 11.3
RES: 16.35

Louise: Level 5 Sniper
HP: 28.6
STR: 12.4
SKL: 14.4
SPD: 17.4
LUK: 16.5
DEF: 9.2
RES: 12.3


90 Enemies.  .

Louise can't kill 5 Nomadic Troopers, 4 Paladins, 4 Wyvern Lords(kills with Silver Bow), 1 Hero, 3 Druids(kills with Steel Bow), and Jerme without a critical.  19 Critical with a normal bow and 29 with a Short Bow ain't too bad.


Unless you want to say giving her a Steel Bow is babying, she's raping.
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C475_1337
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One serious d00d

Quote:
 
I only said Bartre and Rebecca because they are tough to raise.


Your point?

Quote:
 
With your logic, I can prove Marcus isn't worth it in HHM because he ends up meh.


And you’d be right. Marcus is never worth a long-time investment. He’s only used at all out of necessity, and dropped as soon as he’s no longer necessary.

Quote:
 
What?

Wil is too slow and Rebecca is too weak.


If Rebecca’s weak, what is Louise? Since Louise is even weaker than Rebecca.

Wil’s Spd should be no problem, since according to you, the average AS of all enemies on HHM is a mighty 6. If Lowen and Marcus have no trouble DAing, Wil sure as hell doesn’t either.

Quote:
 
I don't want to waste support slots on Rebecca, since Lowen and her other options would want other units more.


If you even bothered to examine that claim at all, you’d see that it’s quite false.

Quote:
 
LOL Dorcas? MAYBE Bartre beats out Hawkeye, but Dorcas sure as hell does not.


20/10 Dorcas
53.8 Hp
23.5 Str
19.4 Skl
11.2 Spd
14.7 Luck
12.5 Def
6.9 Res
16 Con

A Oswin
B Geitz

??/10 Hawkeye
53.0 Hp
20.4 Str
15.8 Skl
12.5 Spd
15.2 Def
12.1 Res
15.4 Luck
16 Con

Hawkeye has one more AS and loses in almost every other way possible. And let’s remember that, since the average AS of all enemies is 6, both these units DA everything anyway.

Quote:
 
Unless you want to say giving her a Steel Bow is babying, she's raping.


Big whoop; the majority of units can rape harder.
Reikken: I'm halfway through reading it, but it's so bad; I can't finish.

---

Inui: You say Ilia holds more weight, but I don't, since Shin >>> Pegs and Sacae is more fun due to enemies that aren't fail and not having to move through forests all day.

---

SACAE. It's more fun than Ilia.
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Percival
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Knight General of Eutria

Quote:
 
Your point?


That they're tough to raise and I never said anything wrong about Wil and Dorcas.

Quote:
 
And you’d be right. Marcus is never worth a long-time investment. He’s only used at all out of necessity, and dropped as soon as he’s no longer necessary.


Aren't we talking about a Ranked playthrough? Even in the midgame, Marcus is still good and you have to get things done quickly. It'll be in a long time when Lowen outdoes Marcus in utility. And that's in the endgame.
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I'm pretty damn sexy with these stats...
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C475_1337
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One serious d00d

Quote:
 
Aren't we talking about a Ranked playthrough? Even in the midgame, Marcus is still good and you have to get things done quickly. It'll be in a long time when Lowen outdoes Marcus in utility. And that's in the endgame.


Ranked? Doesn't matter either way. Marcus gets dropped when his stats are no longer impressive compared to the rest of the team. That happens far before the end of the game. And Lowen is hardly the only unit Marcus has to worry about when it comes to competing for a spot on the team.
Reikken: I'm halfway through reading it, but it's so bad; I can't finish.

---

Inui: You say Ilia holds more weight, but I don't, since Shin >>> Pegs and Sacae is more fun due to enemies that aren't fail and not having to move through forests all day.

---

SACAE. It's more fun than Ilia.
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Light Yagami
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As dog as a Fetch

Percival
Mar 7 2007, 08:21 PM
Quote:
 
Wil and/or Becca> Louise.


Usability>"Stats". Being good for most of the game>Being good trained up. It's so logical and simple. Idk what's the problem.

If stats>usability, Nino>all.

Louise>Becca. Louise is usable from the getgo, DAing from the start, Silver Bow and A Pent. Rebecca needs babying and has meh supports. She's not useful whatsoever and can slow you down if you use her. She can't kill Pegasus Knights early on. Louise is killing everything but Vaida in her chapter.

What do you mean "good for most of the game"?
Louise joins MUCH later than Wil/Becca. Wil is good while you have him, doubles soon enough and has great Str to make up for it. 7 con so he won't lose any AS from carrying around a Killer Bow.

Louise's stats are hardly anything to brag about. 12 Strngth and 14 Skill is nothing spectacular.

EDIT: Um....I don't see how Hawkeye> Dorcas makes any sense.

Dorcas can EASILY be your main man with all those nasty lance users and knights walzting around. Hawkeye joins when he isn't needed and hardly makes any difference in your team. He is stuck with Axes and has some pretty lame stats (IMO)
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Admin
There is a light that never goes out...

Loiuse should be bottem tier. Make Heath bottem tier too, his joining situation is just too bad.
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Light Yagami
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As dog as a Fetch

Sentenal
Mar 8 2007, 06:04 AM
Loiuse should be bottem tier. Make Heath bottem tier too, his joining situation is just too bad.

Not saying Louise should be bottom teir. Wil should be higher than her.

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Percival
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Knight General of Eutria

Quote:
 
What do you mean "good for most of the game"?


I didn't say anything bad about Wil, but he has bad supports and is much slower than you think. 5 base with only 40%=wtf. Since his speed is bad, he's not DA in a while, so he gets less EXP unless he gets last hit kills. Wil also doesn't dodge that well, making him even harder to train. Louise DAs from the start, so she does more damage. She dodges well because of you know who and good speed and luck.

Quote:
 
Louise's stats are hardly anything to brag about. 12 Strngth and 14 Skill is nothing spectacular.


She kills everything in her chapter. Bows are accurate.
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Credits to Mirar for mug. Credits to RNG for hax NM Percival.

I'm pretty damn sexy with these stats...
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Psiwri
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Too Many Words

Louise also misses some of the few balistas you get throughout the game because of join time, but that depends if you view balistas as any good too :X
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