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Which characters fall into the Low Tier category?; Debate stuffz
Topic Started: Mar 2 2007, 01:19 AM (1,772 Views)
Nick
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Brit

OMG I LUV BALISTAS

Well, I love Ballistas on chapter 30 (yay for Louise criticalling Limstella with a killer ballista - twice) and quite like them on a few chapters, but in general I hate them for killing my units because I have overlooked them, and refuse to use them.
OKs 4 lief
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Light Yagami
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As dog as a Fetch

Percival
Mar 8 2007, 01:15 PM
Quote:
 
What do you mean "good for most of the game"?


I didn't say anything bad about Wil, but he has bad supports and is much slower than you think. 5 base with only 40%=wtf. Since his speed is bad, he's not DA in a while, so he gets less EXP unless he gets last hit kills. Wil also doesn't dodge that well, making him even harder to train. Louise DAs from the start, so she does more damage. She dodges well because of you know who and good speed and luck.

Quote:
 
Louise's stats are hardly anything to brag about. 12 Strngth and 14 Skill is nothing spectacular.


She kills everything in her chapter. Bows are accurate.

And what do you think Lyn's mode is for. Its mostly used just to give some units some extra EXP and level ups.


And can't the same be said for Wil
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Percival
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Knight General of Eutria

Quote:
 
And what do you think Lyn's mode is for. Its mostly used just to give some units some extra EXP and level ups.


Lvl 10 Wil has 8 Speed. Awesome. He's definately killing a alot. So he's getting less EXP, which leads to less lvls, which leads to not getting speed.

Like I said a million times, Louise has none of that.

Quote:
 
And can't the same be said for Wil


He needs to be 20/8 to DA what Louise can DA. Not in a mode with decreased EXP gain.
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I'm pretty damn sexy with these stats...
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C475_1337
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One serious d00d

Quote:
 
She kills everything in her chapter.


That's quite false.

As for complaints about Wil's Spd, keep in mind:

1. The average AS of all enemies on HHM is 6 :feez:

2. The Str gap between them is much wider than the Spd gap. Wil has 1-2 less Spd than Louise, while Louise has like 5-6 less Str.
Reikken: I'm halfway through reading it, but it's so bad; I can't finish.

---

Inui: You say Ilia holds more weight, but I don't, since Shin >>> Pegs and Sacae is more fun due to enemies that aren't fail and not having to move through forests all day.

---

SACAE. It's more fun than Ilia.
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Light Yagami
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As dog as a Fetch

Louise joins with 28 HP ONLY, along with 17 Spd and 9 Def

But lets just say you have Wil at 20/1 (I usually have him at a much higher level at the time Louise Joins)
37 HP, 14 Spd and 10 Def.
His leads in Strn and HP more than make up for his lack of Spd. Besides, Don't you only need about 14 Spd to be doubling almost everyone?

Wil at 20/20 has 22 Spd and Louise has only 23 at ?/20 :richie:

EDIT: actually...acording to RPGDL, Wil has a 6 point lead in Strngth.

Wil's 2 point lead in Def and 51 HP> Louises 1 point lead in Spd and 37 HP.
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Sarah
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~ La dee dum dee dum.

Light Yagami
Mar 8 2007, 05:23 PM
Percival
Mar 8 2007, 01:15 PM
Quote:
 
What do you mean "good for most of the game"?


I didn't say anything bad about Wil, but he has bad supports and is much slower than you think. 5 base with only 40%=wtf. Since his speed is bad, he's not DA in a while, so he gets less EXP unless he gets last hit kills. Wil also doesn't dodge that well, making him even harder to train. Louise DAs from the start, so she does more damage. She dodges well because of you know who and good speed and luck.

Quote:
 
Louise's stats are hardly anything to brag about. 12 Strngth and 14 Skill is nothing spectacular.


She kills everything in her chapter. Bows are accurate.

And what do you think Lyn's mode is for. Its mostly used just to give some units some extra EXP and level ups.


And can't the same be said for Wil

Indeed that is some of the easiest EXP that you will ever get. Lyn's Mode in the HM is just about the same without any tuterals.
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Inui
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Power of Flower

I just checked chapters 26, 27, 28, and 28x, and Louise kills almost every enemy with iron/steel bow. Like 80-90% of all enemies. =/

If you insist on making Louise low tier, I'm all for it as long as I get to use her. It'll be pretty easy to win the tournament.
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C475_1337
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One serious d00d

Well, Wil's Str and Skl are higher even than Louise's(and that means they must be astronomical indeed, since Louise's amazing stats are already able to rape the game, apparently), and his lower Spd is irrelevant due to the average AS of the enemies being a paltry 6.

So Wil also could win no problem. If you insist on making him low tier, that's fine with me, as long as I get to use him.
Reikken: I'm halfway through reading it, but it's so bad; I can't finish.

---

Inui: You say Ilia holds more weight, but I don't, since Shin >>> Pegs and Sacae is more fun due to enemies that aren't fail and not having to move through forests all day.

---

SACAE. It's more fun than Ilia.
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Inui
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Power of Flower

I'll do Wil vs Louise with you. Louise is way too good, son! B)
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Rei
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UNIVEEEEEERSE!

automatic A support with the amazing Pent > Wil :o!
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Psiwri
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Too Many Words

Bow Lock = auto fail
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Hakado
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The Card Master

Psio
Mar 9 2007, 01:42 AM
Bow Lock = auto fail

QFT

But Wil still beats Louise.
Previously known as: Serra, Hakato, Hakado, Dorgie Poo, Pearl Fey, Kallen and Sailor Moon

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NO. I'M A WOMAN. I'M NEVER SATISFIED

Weird as fuck, isnt he?
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Sarah
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~ La dee dum dee dum.

Well Wil would have to be by far bestest choice for a Sniper. But Louise is actually better than Rebecca if you are using Pent. But anyways Rebecca it is if you want a dodging bow user.
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Percival
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Knight General of Eutria

Quote:
 
That's quite false.

As for complaints about Wil's Spd, keep in mind:

1. The average AS of all enemies on HHM is 6

2. The Str gap between them is much wider than the Spd gap. Wil has 1-2 less Spd than Louise, while Louise has like 5-6 less Str.


What a pointless post.

Enemies only average “6” AS because of knights, with their like 0-2 speed. Everything else averages much higher.

Louise's Silver Bow. She is killing everything but Vaida...

You didn't prove the original question wrong. *Looks at Vegeta's Louise Info Post*

Quote:
 
Louise joins with 28 HP ONLY, along with 17 Spd and 9 Def

But lets just say you have Wil at 20/1 (I usually have him at a much higher level at the time Louise Joins)
37 HP, 14 Spd and 10 Def.
His leads in Strn and HP more than make up for his lack of Spd. Besides, Don't you only need about 14 Spd to be doubling almost everyone?

Wil at 20/20 has 22 Spd and Louise has only 23 at ?/20

EDIT: actually...acording to RPGDL, Wil has a 6 point lead in Strngth.

Wil's 2 point lead in Def and 51 HP> Louises 1 point lead in Spd and 37 HP.


Supports make everything awesome. Wil's defence lead is now gone and unless he supports with Wallace and a slow Raven support he is not regaining that lead. So it's Louise's 22 fully supported Resistance and 17 Defence fully supported (A Pent B Erk) compared to Wil's 14 HP lead. Wtf Louise?

Wil's affinity sucks. His supports aren't the best too. He gets no (good) defence and half evade from all of them. The only way he can get good supports is from Rebecca, Dart, and Lyn. Rebecca and Dart suck...Lyn has much better supports. Kent is a hax support for Lyn. Hector and Eliwood are also frontlining with Lyn, while Wil is backlining, so they are also better and give her better bonuses.

Louise's supports are decent enough. Most of her supports are good for her secondary spot. She gets 3 Strength from Hawkeye, Sain or Erk, all good enough for HHM. Don't forget that automatic support. Wil isn't getting A with anyone if you're going for rank.

http://www.rpgdl.com/FE.php?character=Louise
http://www.rpgdl.com/FE.php?character=Wil

Louise has 79 dodge with A Pent and B Erk.
Wil 76 dodge A or B with anyone but Lyn.

Hmm...14 HP really saving him in vitality? Louise has 3 defence lead, 10 Resistance lead, and 3 dodge lead, which is actually bigger for a while due to automatic A Pent and lvl lead. Wil's good supports aren't defensive. They just help his good strength.

Wait, wtf? Wil has more vitality? Pshaww. A backliner with 17 defence is hax.

Hmm…overall stats…
HP-Wil by 14
Strength-Wil by 6 or by 9…
Skill-Wil by 5
Speed-Louise by 1 or more because of lvl lead.
Luck-Tie
Defence-Louise by 3 fully supported.
Resistance-Louise by 10 fully supported

Lol Speed is the best stat; maybe at the end Wil can catch up, but Louise will be winning by a good margin because of things I don’t wanna repeat because you should’ve thought about it by now. W/O speed, Wil for the most of the game falters, as he cannot DA or dodge, making him harder to bring up.

Logic: Wil's offensive lead is "better". Or is it? It's not early because he can't DA for a while. The 6 AS usually is from the Knights and some enemies getting weighed down. Later on when we can actually talk about Louise vs. Wil, the enemies are tougher, so he might not DA.

Then there is the HM factor. You get less EXP. Hmm...Wil doesn't look so good. As I said, since he can't DA, he doesn't get EXP, so he doesn't get lvls, so he doesn't get speed. I like the EXP for people that can fight, as in DA or tank. Wil isn't doing either for a while with his awesome 5 base speed and bows. Louise takes no real effort to train because she pops up right away with the obvious bonuses.

Hmm...when he comes, he isn't DAing. If you were dedicated to him in Lyn's mode, he would be lvl 10, and still not DAing alot of things. But I wanna be dedicated to Lyn, Kent, Lucius, Serra, and Sain. So he usually comes very underlvled. So there: more speed problems. Awesome offence there. Idc if he ends with better offence; his offence it crap when he comes. And if his offence sucks, he’s not getting lvls… What logic.

Louise comes ready with no real side effect on her use; she helps Pent tremendously, can kill most things according to Vegeta, and is an excellent backliner with good defences. She’s also handy for the numerous status staffs in HM. Her supports are very handy.

Wil? Has strength as his major lead. Pshhaw…not DAing more than you think. Crap dodge, crap AS for most of the game, crap defences...total crap. His supports want other people, are slow, or they are crap.

Usability>"Stats" and Louise>Wil. Slightly. Being good from start to finish>Being good trained up was my original statement.

Hmm...this is my first big ol debate post here. Idk if this is cut material or not. CATS may rip me apart or something.
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I'm pretty damn sexy with these stats...
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C475_1337
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One serious d00d

Quote:
 
Enemies only average “6” AS because of knights, with their like 0-2 speed. Everything else averages much higher.


Knights aren’t even 10% of all enemies. Even if they all had 0 Spd, which they don’t, they can’t affect the average so much that it’s 6 with them included and 10 or something without. And even 10 AS is still doubled by a Wil who is at Louise’s base LvL.

Quote:
 
Louise's Silver Bow. She is killing everything but Vaida...


Wil’s Silver Bow. He is killing everything but Vaida…

Everyone has good offense with a Silver Weapon. Big surprise. I’m more interested in the characters who don’t need such fancy equipment to kill everything.

Quote:
 
You didn't prove the original question wrong.


I’m sorry, I didn’t know questions could be proven wrong. Exactly what was the original question, again?

Quote:
 
So it's Louise's 22 fully supported Resistance and 17 Defence fully supported (A Pent B Erk) compared to Wil's 14 HP lead. Wtf Louise?


There’s one problem with that. Erk will support Pent and Priscilla before he supports Louise, and both of those are almost guaranteed to be played.

Regardless this doesn’t matter. Both of these are worthless defensively(due to lack of a melee counter), so defense is not nearly as important with them as offense. And Wil’s clearly winning offense; 5-6 Str >>> 1-2 Spd, easily. Especially when FE7 enemies are the slowest enemies in all of the American FEs.
Reikken: I'm halfway through reading it, but it's so bad; I can't finish.

---

Inui: You say Ilia holds more weight, but I don't, since Shin >>> Pegs and Sacae is more fun due to enemies that aren't fail and not having to move through forests all day.

---

SACAE. It's more fun than Ilia.
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