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Abortion; renewed fervor for the debate forum ftw
Topic Started: Jun 12 2007, 02:27 PM (2,204 Views)
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Recently the issue of abortion popped up in another thread. I figured I'd start a thread on it.

Let me start by saying I favor the legalization of abortion. It certainly has more advantages than disadvantages and can make a huge impact in lives of one person or another with the sacrifice of a fetus/zygote. The fact that young women who would otherwise be thethered to misery and suffering because of many different reasons, all ending in their pregnancies, would be able to start anew and continue seeking careers is one of the few benefits from abotions. Also, with the stem cells from the aborted fetus, research can be made to benefit the already living members of society.

I'm not, however, endorsing sensless abortions. Sex DOES have consequences and people need to understand that, but abortions need to be available nevertheless for rape victims, victims of domestic abuse, women in situations where they cannot afford to have a child and miss work, and for women who would otherwise die without abortions. While the last case seems like a fantastic miracle, the other three cases aren't uncommon. Abortions help these people get back on track, but I don't endorse abortions for anyone who can handle a child.

That's my stance, let's see if we can get some life in this board!
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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cool story bro


I pretty much agree with all your points.

Abortion is basically required for many people whose lives would be falling apart if they had a child. I know that if I was a woman, I'd pissed if I was one of those whose life was severely limited because of having kids.
A NEW WORLD ORDER
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Housuke Odoroki
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Ahh... abortion. I don't think that we'll ever find a solution to this through democratic means. Nonetheless, I am staunchly against abortion except in cases of rape, incest, or when some life-threatening condition is presented in either the mother or the baby. It's an interesting topic, definitely. I find it ironic on both sides of the issue: those on the left promote abortion but are against the death penalty, while those on the right promote the death penalty but are against abortion. When you get down to it, they're basically the same thing, and I am against both of them. On another note, my mother actually had an abortion, when it was revealed that some condition persisted in either her or the baby, I'm not entirely sure, that threatened the life of both her and the baby... Again, that's one of the few situations where I would be pro-abortion.
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Housuke Odoroki
 
I find it ironic on both sides of the issue: those on the left promote abortion but are against the death penalty, while those on the right promote the death penalty but are against abortion.
I'm strictly against the Death Penalty because it's more costly and you can't get labor out of it, it's obsolete next to life in prison. Also, I support sacrificing a life to save a life.

Housuke Odoroki
 
Again, that's one of the few situations where I would be pro-abortion.
And what happens when something new of debate comes up that doesn't fall under the certain cases? You can't just put an abortion up by case because the judge is going to see the cases differently and that's not uniform or fair.
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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Crysta
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wat

Quote:
 
It's an interesting topic, definitely. I find it ironic on both sides of the issue: those on the left promote abortion but are against the death penalty, while those on the right promote the death penalty but are against abortion. When you get down to it, they're basically the same thing, and I am against both of them.


I'm glad someone else noticed this.

I guess I'm a would-be murderer on both fronts. I'd like to know how you guys would prevent abortions even if they were made illegal. You can rarely force someone to take responsibility. It would be like gun control: limited effectiveness at best, and girls will probably consequentially die when they try the coat hanger.

That's okay, because at least it teaches people that sex has consequences? :Psyduck:
~ Crysta, Zombie Queen
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GODonPCP
 
I always give frying pans to female survivors in Dead Rising. It's really the only thing I'm confident they know how to use.
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Housuke Odoroki
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I'm all for sex, definitely. Just not too crazy about, you know, killing babies.
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Crysta
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wat

*Sighs* I guess zygotes have feelings, too. :Psyduck:
~ Crysta, Zombie Queen
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GODonPCP
 
I always give frying pans to female survivors in Dead Rising. It's really the only thing I'm confident they know how to use.
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cool story bro


Ugh, I hate it when people say abortion is killing babies.

You can't kill something that is not alive! I really doubt that this thing that can't live without being in a womb and stuff is consider a true baby. D:
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Nathan Explosion
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So punching a pregnant woman in the stomach, therby killing the fetus should be a misdemanor assault charge? You can't have your cake and eat it too.


I don't mind abortion in strict siuations like rape(as a brother of a rape victim I understand this.), risk of death for the mother. But abortion is not ment to be for population control. Thats sick. As is abortions going willy nilly just because you don't want a kid, thats also idiotic.


Another problem is women getting 3 or 4 abortions(this happened in my town. Having 4 abortions because you don't want a kid is being a whore(I will not rescind this.)

Abortion needs to be situational and not be unrestricted. Thats just having morality(and yes you can be moral without having anything to do with relgion.)

I say you get one get out of responsibility free card and then you can't have another abortion or you get fixed. Thats the SMART thing to do if you don't want kids. Don't support people being dumbasses.


EDIT: Also there needs to be heavier restrictions on how late you can perform an abortion.
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Grady
.

Nathan Explosion
Jun 12 2007, 10:59 PM
So punching a pregnant woman in the stomach, therby killing the fetus should be a misdemanor assault charge? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Nah...most pregnant women are pregnant with the intent of having the baby. A woman who's pregnant and having an abortion should have a significant reason for going through with it.

Quote:
 
I don't mind abortion in strict siuations like rape(as a brother of a rape victim I understand this.), risk of death for the mother.  But abortion is not ment to be for population control. Thats sick. As is abortions going willy nilly just because you don't want a kid, thats also idiotic. 

Another problem is women getting 3 or 4 abortions(this happened in my town. Having 4 abortions because you don't want a kid is being a whore(I will not rescind this.)

Abortion needs to be situational and not be unrestricted. Thats just having morality(and yes you can be moral without having anything to do with relgion.)

I say you get one get out of responsibility free card and then you can't have another abortion or you get fixed. Thats the SMART thing to do if you don't want kids. Don't support people being dumbasses.

Agreed, for the most part. I don't know about getting fixed, but I do feel that abortion should have its limitations, or even qualifications for someone wanting one.

I think abortion is wrong...sex is supposed to be for creation, so if you're not planning on creating, use a condom, use birth control, etc, etc. But I feel a woman should still have the right to choose.
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Othin
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Nathan Explosion
Jun 12 2007, 10:59 PM
So punching a pregnant woman in the stomach, therby killing the fetus should be a misdemanor assault charge? You can't have your cake and eat it too.


I don't mind abortion in strict siuations like rape(as a brother of a rape victim I understand this.), risk of death for the mother. But abortion is not ment to be for population control. Thats sick. As is abortions going willy nilly just because you don't want a kid, thats also idiotic.


Another problem is women getting 3 or 4 abortions(this happened in my town. Having 4 abortions because you don't want a kid is being a whore(I will not rescind this.)

Abortion needs to be situational and not be unrestricted. Thats just having morality(and yes you can be moral without having anything to do with relgion.)

I say you get one get out of responsibility free card and then you can't have another abortion or you get fixed. Thats the SMART thing to do if you don't want kids. Don't support people being dumbasses.


EDIT: Also there needs to be heavier restrictions on how late you can perform an abortion.

Agreed completely.
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Nathan Explosion
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AG
Jun 12 2007, 11:04 PM
Nathan Explosion,Jun 12 2007
10:59 PM
So punching a pregnant woman in the stomach, therby killing the fetus should be a misdemanor assault charge? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Nah...most pregnant women are pregnant with the intent of having the baby. A woman who's pregnant and having an abortion should have a significant reason for going through with it.?



You can't say something is not living then and then charge someone with murder or manslaughter then.
[/QUOTE]
You can't say something is not living then and then charge someone with murder or manslaughter then, is the point I'm trying to get across.
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Crysta
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wat

This isn't about manslaughter, but the difference in that scenario is that the woman likely WANTS the kid. I'm not in charge of the laws, either.

Quote:
 
But abortion is not ment to be for population control. Thats sick. As is abortions going willy nilly just because you don't want a kid, thats also idiotic.


Who said it was for population control again?

I don't consider it always idiotic, either.

Quote:
 
Another problem is women getting 3 or 4 abortions(this happened in my town. Having 4 abortions because you don't want a kid is being a whore(I will not rescind this.)


Not every woman is the same and I sincerely doubt most women have numerous abortions. Call her a whore, don't group an entire gender.

Quote:
 
Abortion needs to be situational and not be unrestricted. Thats just having morality(and yes you can be moral without having anything to do with relgion.)


Your morals are not mine. I'm pretty sure there is protocol. You guys want it gone or available only in certain circumstances, regardless of it more or less being the same thing anyway, and don't care about the possible harmful consequences that may follow. That doesn't strike me as "moral", either.

Laws should be practical, not just to satisfy the moral conscience of people who aren't even directly affected by these to begin with. I go back to my point: it's going to happen whether you like it or not. Focus more on sex education (not the abstinence-only sort -- I practice it but I know a lot of kids won't) if you really want to curb it. Sure, there will still be idiots in the world, but at least you genuinely tried.

This... won't work. I don't think it ever has.

Quote:
 
I say you get one get out of responsibility free card...


They haven't been taught to be responsible and you sure as hell aren't going to suddenly make them responsible with a law. We are not their parents.

Quote:
 
I say you get one get out of responsibility free card and then you can't have another abortion or you get fixed. Thats the SMART thing to do if you don't want kids. Don't support people being dumbasses.


Most women wouldn't do that because it would ruin their chances of having kids in the future instead of when they're kids themselves.

Of course, you don't care about that part. Lets make even more bad parents. At least we're being moral.

I'm not entirely keen on abortion myself, but the more protests I hear the more convinced I become that this is more about principle than any genuine care for the individuals involved.
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GODonPCP
 
I always give frying pans to female survivors in Dead Rising. It's really the only thing I'm confident they know how to use.
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Housuke Odoroki
Jun 12 2007, 05:07 PM
I'm all for sex, definitely. Just not too crazy about, you know, killing babies.

Fetus =/= Baby, Zygote =/= Baby.

NathanExplosion
 
So punching a pregnant woman in the stomach, therby killing the fetus should be a misdemanor assault charge? You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Because it IS assault, you just assaulted a woman who happened to be pregnant. Ever wonder when people ask you when you were born versus when you were considered "living"? That's because you first live when you're born!

NathanExplosion
 
I don't mind abortion in strict siuations like rape(as a brother of a rape victim I understand this.), risk of death for the mother. But abortion is not ment to be for population control. Thats sick. As is abortions going willy nilly just because you don't want a kid, thats also idiotic.
Because we all know abortions are the cool thing to do, I totally wish I was a woman so I could get knocked up and get an abortion! It certainly isn't something women want to choose, but it needs to be open to protect the futures of the living versus the future of a child.

NathanExplosion
 
Another problem is women getting 3 or 4 abortions(this happened in my town. Having 4 abortions because you don't want a kid is being a whore(I will not rescind this.)
She's obviously a stunning example of the majority of Americans.

NathanExplosion
 
Abortion needs to be situational and not be unrestricted. Thats just having morality(and yes you can be moral without having anything to do with relgion.)
It's also eliminating the chance for abortion for women who need it, it's applying someone else's moral to another person, and it's unconstitutional to limit something like an abortion. An abortion doesn't harm another living human's rights, therefore it can't be restricted. Good, it doesn't need to invovle religion, but it's still applying someone else's morals to another.

Stop assuming people are going to get abortions because it's available.

NathanExplosion
 
I say you get one get out of responsibility free card and then you can't have another abortion or you get fixed. Thats the SMART thing to do if you don't want kids. Don't support people being dumbasses.
How about you get one free trip up of your words, meaning mispronouncing a word or making up a word, then we cut out your tongue the second time! It's fucking stupid to treat people like animals, beings without rational thought.
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
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Nathan Explosion
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Quote:
 
Who said it was for population control again?

I don't consider it always idiotic, either.


How is being irresponsible not on some level idiotic?

Quote:
 
Not every woman is the same and I sincerely doubt most women have numerous abortions. Call her a whore, don't group an entire gender.


If you read the post again, you would see that the statement was not a generalization as it would not be correct to say "Another problem is WOMAN getting 3 or 4 abortions(this happened in my town. Having 4 abortions because you don't want a kid is being a whore." Sure I could have said "a woman." but that is what came out and was grammatically correct.




Quote:
 
Your morals are not mine. I'm pretty sure there is protocol. You guys want it gone or available only in certain circumstances, regardless of it more or less being the same thing anyway, and don't care about the possible harmful consequences that may follow. That doesn't strike me as "moral", either.

Laws should be practical, not just to satisfy the moral conscience of people who aren't even directly affected by these to begin with. I go back to my point: it's going to happen whether you like it or not. Focus more on sex education (not the abstinence-only sort -- I practice it but I know a lot of kids won't) if you really want to curb it. Sure, there will still be idiots in the world, but at least you genuinely tried.

This... won't work. I don't think it ever has.


I agree with the wider scope of sex education. Preaching abstinence only(while it should be brought up.) is unrealistic, and I would be a hypocrite preaching it.

However, having no laws and free range on everything is not exactly practical either.


Quote:
 
They haven't been taught to be responsible and you sure as hell aren't going to suddenly make them responsible with a law. We are not their parents.



Uhm, what's the judicial system again? Pretty much parents for adults if you get basic with it. You get punished for breaking laws, like you get punished for breaking your parents rules when you were young.


Quote:
 
Most women wouldn't do that because it would ruin their chances of having kids in the future instead of when they're kids themselves.

Of course, you don't care about that part. Lets make even more bad parents. At least we're being moral.


You obviously missed the entire point of my post. Abortion isn't always the Answer.

Also obviously you should research medical data before making some statements. Reversing a Tubal ligation is easy to reverse than a vasectomy. But don't get me wrong. If a couple decides not to have/have more children, I fully suggest(as much as males will argue with me) the man get a vasectomy, as it's MUCH less invasive and lower risk than a lady getting her tubes tied.
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