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| Abortion; renewed fervor for the debate forum ftw | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 12 2007, 02:27 PM (2,216 Views) | |
| Crysta | Jun 12 2007, 07:31 PM Post #16 |
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wat
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... And you're perfect or something? ![]() I consider the unprotected sex part idiotic, if anything. There's a dozen reasons why getting an abortion would be a good idea, too. It's not always idiotic. I think you meant "women". "Woman" doesn't make sense, still. And is this woman getting three or four abortions bothering you at night, anyway? I don't know why we're so worried about the whores.
... This isn't "everything". This is abortion. [quotes]Uhm, what's the judicial system again? Pretty much parents for adults if you get basic with it.[/quote] ... No. They're judges, not parents. If you can't tell the difference between your dad and a judge, we have a problem here. They simply make determinations. Even then, punishment doesn't even always make you responsible. They have similarities, but not nearly enough of them to make that a good comparison.
No, I didn't. Here was what you said:
I told you why that wouldn't be smart and why some women wouldn't do it. They probably DO want kids in the future. "Abortion is not the answer" is not what you said. It's what you're saying now.
I probably should, but I got the impression that it was a permanent thing. I know someone who had to have that for her health, not because she didn't want any more kids. Not to mention... it costs money some people may simply not have. EDIT: wry aren't my quotes working...? |
~ Crysta, Zombie Queen![]() Trophy Case
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| Housuke Odoroki | Jun 12 2007, 07:40 PM Post #17 |
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...Ah... fetuses and zygotes have developing features... they have limbs and heartbeats and brains, don't they? At what point does a fetus become a baby? The idea that you propose is preposterous and offensive. |
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| Crysta | Jun 12 2007, 07:46 PM Post #18 |
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wat
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And implying we're baby killers, or willing to be, isn't offensive at all. A zygote is a cell that is the result of fertilization, so no, it doesn't have all that. It will if it's allowed to develop. I see no difference between preventing fertilization through a condom and preventing it from advancing to another stage through abortion. Just people have this idea in their heads that's it's a baby right when it's conceived. No, it needs to do some growing first. A fetus does, but it's a fetus eight weeks after conception. |
~ Crysta, Zombie Queen![]() Trophy Case
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| Housuke Odoroki | Jun 12 2007, 07:49 PM Post #19 |
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It's just... you keep dodging something that bothers me. I just don't really quite understand; abortion is basically taking away the chance that a baby has to live, even if it does go through adoption, even if it does harm a family, nonetheless, it's taking away the chance a baby has to live, and no matter whether you dodge it or not, you're still basically killing a baby... |
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| Crysta | Jun 12 2007, 07:55 PM Post #20 |
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wat
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So are condoms, theoretically. You're preventing the possibility of having a sperm fertilize an egg, on purpose. You don't let nature take its course then, I'm not sure why you're so intent on insisting that others should after that barrier has been breached. It's not killing a baby. But most people would concur that birth control is a good idea. I'm not dodging anything. I'm telling you you're wrong and why. That doesn't fit any definition of "dodging" that I know of. |
~ Crysta, Zombie Queen![]() Trophy Case
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| Neo | Jun 12 2007, 07:55 PM Post #21 |
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Tits and Ass
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The only problem with that logic is that as a person, you may make the choice to find the right time to bring your child into a world that isn't so...shitty. In a way, it's the parent's choice for what they want with their kid. Also, if zygotes are babies, then chicken eggs must be the biggest form of abortion known to man. |
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| Reaver | Jun 12 2007, 08:38 PM Post #22 |
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Troll
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Dogs have all the things you listed so, so do Chickens, and Horses, and Cows, and Pigs... A fetus isn't human, it isn't alive because it cannot even support it's own internal functions without help, it needs the womb for it's breathing and heartbeat, it needs the womb to give it straight nutrients. This necessity differs from a baby's reliance on the parents because a baby can take food and partially digest it and it can run it's own insides just fine. |
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| Housuke Odoroki | Jun 12 2007, 09:15 PM Post #23 |
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I don't support the killing of animals just because their owners don't want them, either. Do you? |
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| Crysta | Jun 12 2007, 09:16 PM Post #24 |
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wat
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I doubt anyone would care so much if you did, except maybe animal rights activists. |
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| Soja | Jun 12 2007, 09:21 PM Post #25 |
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Gentle Water, Crashing Waves
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Neo, chicken eggs are unfertilized.
Aside from that, my views are unchanged. Abortion is intrinsically wrong when it's made as a choice of convenience, IE "I can't afford a kid." You should've thought about that before your wild night, lady; lack of forethought is aptly rewarded. This is the case in all things, not just sexuality. Abortive procedures should be legal in the cases of those who are subjected to a pregnancy against their will (rape), or as a choice for those whose lives are endangered by carrying the pregnancy to term. The difference between the death penalty and abortion is that the inmate on death row did something to "deserve" death. The unborn simply started developing and did nothing to anyone (unless the mother feels like the victim instead, in which case, she has problems. This is in reference to a convenience abortion). I have extreme reservations towards abortion because it is the termination of a life already begun. It's not preventing it from starting, as a condom or the pill would. It's deliberately ending it after it started. Our parents all gave us that liberty to continue living, What needs to be kept in mind is that the zygote from the start is essentially a human. It is not finished developing, but make no mistake that it is growing and developing, taking in nutrition and creating waste. And when it becomes a fetus, it indeed looks more human, but make no mistake that it too is alive, as it is taking in that nutrition, and creating that waste, and bearing of its own functioning organs. It may not be able to sustain itself outside the womb for a while. It would be analogous to a person who is missing his kidneys, who needs dialysis in order to survive. He cannot sustain his life apart from that machine. Does that make him not human either? Does that make him not alive? Scientifically speaking, all that makes us human is our genetic structure. So please refrain from saying in the future that an unborn child from zygote to fetus is not human. The first fact that those undergoing an abortion must cope with is that they are, without a shadow of a doubt, ending a life. |
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| Reaver | Jun 12 2007, 09:22 PM Post #26 |
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Troll
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Animals are animals, we kill them for food and clothing and test our products on them. We kill animals for our benefit, why not something that isn't even alive? Soja. my prime gripe with your stance on abortion is how you hold the female 100% responsible. If the guy who impregnated her doesn't want to help her out financially and take responsibility... Also, a zygote is sperm and egg, nothing more until it develops a bit. Sperm and Egg aren't human, and together they are a zygote. Give it a little bit and it WILL become a fetus, which has the genetic material for a human. |
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| Housuke Odoroki | Jun 12 2007, 09:47 PM Post #27 |
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Or, you know... people who respect... life... o.o |
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| Crysta | Jun 12 2007, 09:50 PM Post #28 |
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wat
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You kill insects, don't you? I kill ants without hesitation and they have more ability to be upset, as far as I know. I still don't care a whole lot. I wouldn't feel guilty. The difference between preventing it from starting and preventing it from continuing? Not a whole lot, beyond the fact that you're killing a living human cell... before it can really feel anything. Our mother gave us the opportunity to live, but she got to choose when. |
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| Reaver | Jun 12 2007, 09:53 PM Post #29 |
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Troll
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Preserving and maintaining the lives of beings that have meaning to their lives > preserving all life. The idea that one shouldn't kill is silly because in the end you're going to have to kill something to survive, be it a plant, animal, and sometimes zygote. |
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| Housuke Odoroki | Jun 12 2007, 10:03 PM Post #30 |
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That's... that's an awful attitude to have, if you ask me... Considering that most abortions are done, I would imagine, simply because a woman doesn't want to have a baby... how is that necessary for survival? How does that benefit mankind in the same way that meat does, or fur, or vegetables? |
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