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Abortion; renewed fervor for the debate forum ftw
Topic Started: Jun 12 2007, 02:27 PM (2,214 Views)
Yzarc
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Coxian

monsoon moon
Jun 13 2007, 09:15 AM
Soja
Jun 13 2007, 01:36 PM
The answer is simple.

DON'T. HAVE. SEX.

for the american public/humanity? simply impossible.

qft

There are the few who specifically abstain from sex for various reasons, be they religious or paranoia, but the common teenager wants sex and goes after it. Blame society if you will, or blame the media, but American society today is pretty severely centered around sex.
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Reaver
Troll

Soja
Jun 13 2007, 08:36 AM
The answer is simple.

And far less expensive than an abortion.

DON'T. HAVE. SEX.

There is no pregnancy to terminate if one doesn't start one! D:

If it were so easy to carefully monitor one's menstrual cycle to know when to have sex with minimal risk of a pregnancy and when to avoid an encounter, this would be a non-issue.

Shit happens. A child, at first, might be something a woman can support until the guy who knocked her up decides he wants no part in it. The situation has changed, instead of being fully able to handle a child, the woman can no longer provide for a child. Abortions should be legal for that reason, things will change and many women need abortions to support themselves.

Wind Sword
 
But on an aside to Reaver, why would you be opposed to abortions electively if you think fetuses aren't people? Because there is a chance it might be alive? For me, that would be enough. That's why those given the Death Penalty need BEYOND reasonable doubt. There is a fair amount of reasonable doubt, so I don't mess with it.
If a fetus showed signs it was alive, instead of being 100% reliant on it's mother for survival, I would question my stance on abortion. When a child is born, it is alive because it can regulate it's own internal processes, such as a heartbeat, conscious thinking, digestion, and other things. When a fetus is in the womb, it relies on it's mother to digest food for it and provide nutrients, inhale oxygen so the baby can take it in, and needs the mother to help stabilize itself internally.

Why is death a punishment? I don't see how death is any sort of punishment because you take what should be a lifetime of thinking and a lifetime removal from society and you turn it into a minute or two of dying and it's over.
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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Soja
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Gentle Water, Crashing Waves

monsoon moon
Jun 13 2007, 09:40 AM
Then I must agree to disagree with you on that point, as I could never compare the instinctual appeal of sex to that of murder, rape or theft.

My main point in saying that, good sir, was not to compare consensual sex to crimes like rape or murder. Rather, it was to say that the urge to have sex is, like the urge to, for example, kill, that it's an instinct we just have. What I was highlighting is that we have the ability to choose whether to do it or whether to not. And that choosing yields its respective consequences.

If the woman in Reaver's example truly put her future ahead of momentary pleasure, then she would choose to avoid the risk of a too-early pregnancy altogether. Abortions are expensive, too, so to take that risk seems a pretty piss-poor choice anyway. This is why I have no sympathy for those that beg an abortion after making a poor choice knowing the impact it could have on their lives.
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Mirar on Sep 8 2007
06:08 PM
nigga please
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monsoon moon


I appreciate that it is indeed a matter of choice, and therefore technically possible- but to expect (a vast number of) people in the developed world to stop taking that risk and making that 'piss-poor' decision would surely require socio-cultural shift on such an unprecedented scale, that I still can't to accept your original suggestion as a feasible solution.





P.S. But then, I'm sure you must be gathering Soja- placing faith in society in general is not something that comes easily to me... heh
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Soja
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Gentle Water, Crashing Waves

monsoon moon
Jun 14 2007, 06:04 AM
P.S. But then, I'm sure you must be gathering Soja- placing faith in society in general is not something that comes easily to me... heh

Nor to anyone.

My original solution was one to be taken on a personal level rather than a pan-cultural one. I do understand what you're saying, that getting an entire society to do that is nigh unto impossible. Everyone's going to make their own decisions regardless. I'm just saying that abortive procedures aren't necessary because evasive steps can be taken -- quite easily -- to avoid being in that position to begin with. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't have to be ended.
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Mirar on Sep 8 2007
06:08 PM
nigga please
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7. Do all this in the course of a month.
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Reaver
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Soja
 
If the woman in Reaver's example truly put her future ahead of momentary pleasure, then she would choose to avoid the risk of a too-early pregnancy altogether. Abortions are expensive, too, so to take that risk seems a pretty piss-poor choice anyway. This is why I have no sympathy for those that beg an abortion after making a poor choice knowing the impact it could have on their lives.
Because in my situation is was blatanty obvious that the guy was going to leave her to fend for herself, correct? I'm also showing that abortions should be present to stand against the attitudes of men towards children and fatherhood.
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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Wind Sword
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SKILLNADEN ÄR DRINKABILITY

Here is an excellent article on the unintended social effects of abortion. Interesting stuff.

EDIT: @Reaver- The attitude of men towards fatherhood has been changed because of abortion, from one of responsibility to one of "Yes, I can get off scott free!"
~~Wind Sword

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Please keep Christian bashing to a minimum. This is mainly the American South (and mainly Evangelical death cults), which is similar to Afghanistan under the Taliban.

Touching.

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Clones are create and people can't bore a clone. Scientifically they are called born and not created. The only way to pre-determine their genes is if they are already out in the world usually in a pod that would resemble the sac in a mothers womb. Take Star Wars for example.

Smartest post ever made.
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Reaver
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Wind Sword
Jun 19 2007, 03:24 PM
Here is an excellent article on the unintended social effects of abortion. Interesting stuff.

EDIT: @Reaver- The attitude of men towards fatherhood has been changed because of abortion, from one of responsibility to one of "Yes, I can get off scott free!"

If abortion is illegalized, Wind Sword, will that change guys from leaving women high and dry once their pregnant? In a society where scoring "bitches and hoes" in important, I don't think so.

I don't think promiscuity is going to change if abortions are made illegal, therefore I feel it's best to keep them to avoid the reliance of many women on men because they are pregnant.
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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Kombat_911
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My parents were talking and it seemed to me like the only valid point they hjad was, why not kill some of the old people? Like the old people that cant event do things for themselves. Like a fetus or whatever, they're still alive and they dont do anything except use resources

i didnt really kno what to say so we're going to reconvene tonight
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Reaver
Troll

^About abortion? Fetuses and the definition of the elderly you just gave to me have one major difference that justifies abortion rather than killing the elderly: the elderly are alive.
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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Kombat_911
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Reaver
Jun 20 2007, 08:43 PM
^About abortion? Fetuses and the definition of the elderly you just gave to me have one major difference that justifies abortion rather than killing the elderly: the elderly are alive.

well thewir argument is that a fetus is alive too

they said anything that uses resources to function is alive
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Housuke Odoroki
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Kombat_911
Jun 20 2007, 07:03 PM
My parents were talking and it seemed to me like the only valid point they hjad was, why not kill some of the old people? Like the old people that cant event do things for themselves. Like a fetus or whatever, they're still alive and they dont do anything except use resources

i didnt really kno what to say so we're going to reconvene tonight

Even though I'm anti-abortion, this argument is quite faulty... the argument for abortion is when the baby can't properly be raised in a family environment or by its parent(s, although highly unlikely)... not just because the fetus is useless... of course the fetus is useless, it's a fetus!
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So, I heard you like Mudkipz...
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Reaver
Troll

Kombat_911
Jun 20 2007, 07:35 PM
Reaver
Jun 20 2007, 08:43 PM
^About abortion? Fetuses and the definition of the elderly you just gave to me have one major difference that justifies abortion rather than killing the elderly: the elderly are alive.

well thewir argument is that a fetus is alive too

they said anything that uses resources to function is alive

A car eats resources, it's certainly alive.

A fetus is NOT proven to be living, it can't even sustain it's own internal fucntions without the mother. When the elderly can't maintain their own internal functions to a severe point, it's called being dead.

Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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Housuke Odoroki
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Reaver
Jun 19 2007, 08:37 PM
Wind Sword
Jun 19 2007, 03:24 PM
Here is an excellent article on the unintended social effects of abortion. Interesting stuff.

EDIT: @Reaver- The attitude of men towards fatherhood has been changed because of abortion, from one of responsibility to one of "Yes, I can get off scott free!"

If abortion is illegalized, Wind Sword, will that change guys from leaving women high and dry once their pregnant? In a society where scoring "bitches and hoes" in important, I don't think so.

I don't think promiscuity is going to change if abortions are made illegal, therefore I feel it's best to keep them to avoid the reliance of many women on men because they are pregnant.

Excuse me, as a proprietor of both bitches and hoes, I take offense to your statement.
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So, I heard you like Mudkipz...
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Kombat_911
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Reaver
Jun 21 2007, 02:13 AM
Kombat_911
Jun 20 2007, 07:35 PM
Reaver
Jun 20 2007, 08:43 PM
^About abortion? Fetuses and the definition of the elderly you just gave to me have one major difference that justifies abortion rather than killing the elderly: the elderly are alive.

well thewir argument is that a fetus is alive too

they said anything that uses resources to function is alive

A car eats resources, it's certainly alive.

A fetus is NOT proven to be living, it can't even sustain it's own internal fucntions without the mother. When the elderly can't maintain their own internal functions to a severe point, it's called being dead.

wait that doesnt really count because its not like an animal

they say, the second the egg gets fertilized, its 'life'
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