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Abortion; renewed fervor for the debate forum ftw
Topic Started: Jun 12 2007, 02:27 PM (2,212 Views)
Othin
That one guy who never really leaves

Drugs aren't a natural part of life, though. Sex is.

Since Soja is like God, and I am an atheist, that means that Soja is like nothing. This gets us where?
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Housuke Odoroki
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I agree with what you say. In fact, I think that all men should be forced to have sex all hours of the day until there are no more non-pregnant women around. And I think that women should be forced to always be pregnant. Otherwise, we're just taking a way a potential for human life.


Again, the stupid macho bravados on this website are slightly irritating. Being sarcastic doesn't make you funny, or cool, and it doesn't make people look up to you, it just makes you look like a dick. So please, enough with the pretending to be Dr. Cox stuff.

You're misinterpreting what I say. Your way of thinking, we might as well have no one have sex at all, and then see what happens to our population. No, you're way, way off, and honestly, I doubt you even are trying to form a coherent argument.
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So, I heard you like Mudkipz...
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sephiroth667
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Nostalgia

Odin
Jun 22 2007, 10:05 PM
Drugs aren't a natural part of life, though. Sex is.

You heard it everyone. Sex is a natural part of life, so let us males go around impregnating every woman in sight D:

In all seriousness, however, sex is a part of life as a form of reproduction. However, if you're using sex JUST as a means of pleasure it is not a part of life persay. If I'm going to have sex with a woman and then leave her pregnant, alone, as a single mother that's the wrong thing to do. So unless you're planning on marrying that girl or at least using protection, no dogs allowed.
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Up here in Canada government officials have shoes thrown at them all of the time
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Soja
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Gentle Water, Crashing Waves

Punishment Divine
Jun 22 2007, 09:59 PM
As for it being a natural instinct, please see Soja's post, because he is like God.

Grammar mistake bolded and fixed.

The point is that I had a point, I am right (no one will ever be able to prove me wrong on this), you people don't want to acknowledge that it is a true solution. I've already expounded on everything regarding human tendencies, but no one wants to acknowledge it. We all have tendencies. Every single one of us.

The difference between those serving 15 to life and those living life freely is the ability to control those tendencies.

The difference between those with an unwanted pregnancy and those who don't live with the burden of either ending it, forestalling it, or dealing with it is the ability to control those tendencies. With rare, obvious exceptions in which the burden might be forced onto them.

You can do whatever you want. But don't make someone else pay for your mistakes. Responsibility, discipline, and control. If you lack these, it's your own damn fault. And no, you can't argue this.

The only people that cannot control their actions based on social mores are sociopaths, but that certainly doesn't except even them from responsibility. Why should stupidity be any more acceptable a reason?

There is always a better way. No, it is not easy. Nothing worthwhile ever is.

Besides, you don't need to be a believer to know that God is highly revered indeed. :valter:
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Mirar on Sep 8 2007
06:08 PM
nigga please
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Light Yagami
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As dog as a Fetch

....on the whole sex thing, it IS natural for a person to want to have sex. It all comes down to your control over your urges.

Sex/mating has been around since life started. reproduction is what animals live for. Are humans not animals with awsome brains? ch'yea.

Crack was made when? Certainly not when Cavemen discovered fire.




sorry, ^ post seemed to lack seriousness XD
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Yzarc
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Coxian

Housuke Odoroki
Jun 22 2007, 10:07 PM
Quote:
 
I agree with what you say. In fact, I think that all men should be forced to have sex all hours of the day until there are no more non-pregnant women around. And I think that women should be forced to always be pregnant. Otherwise, we're just taking a way a potential for human life.


Again, the stupid macho bravados on this website are slightly irritating. Being sarcastic doesn't make you funny, or cool, and it doesn't make people look up to you, it just makes you look like a dick. So please, enough with the pretending to be Dr. Cox stuff.

You're misinterpreting what I say. Your way of thinking, we might as well have no one have sex at all, and then see what happens to our population. No, you're way, way off, and honestly, I doubt you even are trying to form a coherent argument.

The point was, in fact, that there is always a potential for life. Always. You're not having sex right now (I assume) and so all that potential you have within you is going to no use. Is that evil? No. Using the argument that it destroys "potential" is useless because there is always potential.

You could convince me that abortion is wrong if you could convince me that fetuses are human. Until then, I don't think a single mistake (such as a condom breaking, which isn't actually the fault of the mother) should force a teenager to live with that burden. I can't imagine walking around high school with a pregnant belly, but I can guess it wouldn't do well for your image.

And before you say "What image is she trying to protect? She's a slut, she got pregnant, she deserves that!"

No, you're wrong, she isn't necessarily a slut, and to say that all teenagers that have sex when they are teenagers ARE sluts and, somehow, immoral, is a little bit harsh, only a little bit.

Oh, and @ the post I quoted. El Oh El, calm the fuck down, quit bein' such a DB.
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Soja
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Gentle Water, Crashing Waves

Yzarc Drowsnam
Jun 23 2007, 01:30 AM
You could convince me that abortion is wrong if you could convince me that fetuses are human.

This train of thought derails. Again. Stop using it. If you're going to be entirely scientific and non-philosophical about it, a fetus' whole DNA structure (not half and half like a sperm or egg's) essentially makes it the basest of what can be called human.

Quote:
 
Until then, I don't think a single mistake (such as a condom breaking, which isn't actually the fault of the mother) should force a teenager to live with that burden. I can't imagine walking around high school with a pregnant belly, but I can guess it wouldn't do well for your image.

Gee, just whose fault is it anyway?

Quote:
 
No, you're wrong, she isn't necessarily a slut, and to say that all teenagers that have sex when they are teenagers ARE sluts and, somehow, immoral, is a little bit harsh, only a little bit.

A slut is a woman of loose character and of promiscuous nature. If she gets pregnant because she's being loose and promiscuous, then that does make her a slut, now doesn't it?

You reap what you sow. I didn't really have a high opinion of those people in high school, male or female, and I still don't. And anyone who's in an ill position because of their own stupidity doesn't deserve pity either.
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Mirar on Sep 8 2007
06:08 PM
nigga please
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How to Get Banned From FEFF
1. Break a rule enough that a moderator has to verbally warn you.
2. Break a rule enough that a moderator has to actually warn you.
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2.
4. Repeat steps 1 and 2 again, getting suspended for a few days.
5. Repeat steps 1 and 2 yet again, getting suspended for a week and Underdogged.
6. Repeat steps 1 and 2.
7. Do all this in the course of a month.
8. ????
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Yzarc
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Coxian

Intimacy is not immoral and getting close to someone often leads to sexual behavior. Even when teens do protect themselves, they are not guaranteed too not get pregnant. At the same time, you can't expect abstinence from most teens. If condoms were 100% reliable, I'd probably side with you that getting pregnant when you don't want to be is dumb. However, a lot of times, you really can't help it.
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sephiroth667
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Nostalgia

What I believe Soja means is not that intimacy is immoral but regardless if it was meant or not the child is still the responsibility of both parties.

And as I've said from the beginning: ADOPTION! It's a lot better than flatout killing something that will eventually become human.
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Up here in Canada government officials have shoes thrown at them all of the time
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Soja
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Gentle Water, Crashing Waves

Punishment Divine
Jun 23 2007, 03:19 AM
And as I've said from the beginning: ADOPTION! It's a lot better than flatout killing something that will eventually become human.

Is. A fetus is a developmental stage of homo sapiens, as are the different eras of our lives leading into adulthood.
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Mirar on Sep 8 2007
06:08 PM
nigga please
Fusion Universe - FEF Fanfic
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Smartest Member '06 & '07 & '08 & 'o9 & 10, Favored Debater '07 & '08 & '09 & 10, Most Popular '08, Manliest '08 & '09, Author of Nightmares, Scourge of the Luxon, Rules Lawyer, Nick's Former Hero, Crysta's Lover

How to Get Banned From FEFF
1. Break a rule enough that a moderator has to verbally warn you.
2. Break a rule enough that a moderator has to actually warn you.
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2.
4. Repeat steps 1 and 2 again, getting suspended for a few days.
5. Repeat steps 1 and 2 yet again, getting suspended for a week and Underdogged.
6. Repeat steps 1 and 2.
7. Do all this in the course of a month.
8. ????
9. PROFIT!!!

Congratulations! You've been banned from FEFF!
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Crysta
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wat

I don't believe my cousin is a "slut", because she generally doesn't sleep around. It only takes one time.

And yet she's estranged by people in my family who think otherwise, even if she didn't ultimately get an abortion. She had the kid.

Then there's people who generally do sleep around with every Dick and Jane and don't have to take responsibility because they get lucky.

I also can't picture Jesus going to a pregnant kid and saying "you reap what you sow, skank", either. Good grief.
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Reaver
Troll

Wind Sword
 
Scientifically, there is no doubt fetuses are alive, they sustain all necessary criteria. The only question is if their human.

Trees are alive. They don't undergo "living" by our standards. It doesn't have "experiences" to experience. It's alive.
The conditions for life are...

1) Response to stimuli.
2) Ability to reproduce at sometime in life.
3) Growth and Development
4) Organization (organisms are made up of cells)
5) Metabolism (uses energy)
6) Maintains homeostasis.

Fetuses struggle with homeostasis. A fetus cannot regulate it's own internal processes for quite some time in the womb, and a zygote can't either because zygotes don't have internal functions. A fetus is not alive for quite some time, do not call it alive (since abortions in the third trimester, where the fetus begins to regulate it's own bodily functions, are illegal).

Comparing a fetus to a tree is stupid, as neither obey a different set of requirements for living than we do since they are both different frm a grown human being. When fetuses are alive, the third trimester, there is no question about abortion being illegal. The potential for life argument is a weak one, helping the living > helping the potentially living.

PD: Abortion still means a woman is missing work for doctor's appointments and caring for the baby immediately after the birth, that could mean loss of job and sometimes a woman isn't paid when she isn't working/is out with the baby. It could cause trouble for a woman to have the baby via finances because the biological father might not support the mother, meaning the woman is held responsible for a lazy man. It's WRONG to say that women can't get abortions because adoption is so much better.

(Also, I loathe how many people assume women who get abortions are sluts [and how the men who impregnate them aren't held accountable] and how they are completely heartless for doing so, assisting the living is more important than nurturing the potential for life when the living can reproduce many times).
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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cool story bro


In technicality, a fetus is human in terms of DNA and whatnot. I, personally however, don't consider them true humans, and really don't care if they are aborted.

The girls who get pregnant aren't always sluts, but they usually can be. Some people have been using the argument "the girl deserves it, give her the kid" but has anybody actually thought of the kid? It would sure suck to grow up knowing you were basically a mistake and that your mom can barely care for you because of it.
A NEW WORLD ORDER
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Reaver
Troll

They ARE human, but being alive makes that difference.

Of course, many people see death as a punishment and THAT might be why they want the kid to live versus be aborted.
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

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Phoenix Wright
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that moron that forgot this is s11

"Why take the risk over a few minutes of pleasure?" is the question I'd have to ask for cases where teens get pregnant. I'm not calling them sluts or anything, but honestly, knowing full well that my life or the potential partner's life could get completely screwed over (no pun intended), I'd try damn hard to pass on a few minutes of pleasure, tempting though it may be.

I don't have a problem with aborting in the case of rape or a case where the mother might die in childbirth, but I view aborting because of an inconvenient pregnancy as a punishment for the baby and a way for irresponsible people to shirk the duties that result as a consequence of their mistakes.

I have a comparison, as well. For those of you who have read the Biblical account of the adultery between Bathsheba and King David, you might see where I'm going with this. For those of you that don't, here's a synopsis (see quote):

Quote:
 
There once was a soldier in the Israelite army named Uriah. He had a wife named Bathsheba and was serving his lord, the Israelite king David. While Uriah is off at war with one of Israel's foes, King David catches sight of Bathsheba nude and asks her to come to his palace to have sex with her. She gets pregnant, and to cover up the pregnancy, King David conspires to get Uriah killed so that David can marry Bathsheba before she gives birth.


Now, we can learn from this that covering up a mistake by eliminating someone as a cover up is wrong.

Going back to our soon-to-be teenage parents, we see that they make the mistake of premature pregnancy and try to cover up said mistake by eliminating the human inside them.
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Fraulein Holls
Sep 14 2008, 06:16 PM
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