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Brawl Tier List
Topic Started: Apr 20 2008, 10:11 AM (5,531 Views)
Inui
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Power of Flower

Phil
Jun 7 2008, 12:19 PM
Why did you move Lucario up to high tier?

He's good. You should check out Azen's or play Atomsk's next time you're here.
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Cubic
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ZA WARUDO

Revised list.

-Top Tier-
Snake
Dedede
Meta Knight

-High Tier-
Game and Watch
Toon Link
Falco
Marth
R.O.B.
Diddy Kong
Pit

-Mid Tier-
Ice Climbers
Squirtle
Wario
Pikachu
Kirby
Jigglypuff
Fox
Zelda
Sheik
Zero Suit Samus
Lucario

-Low Tier-
Donkey Kong
Luigi
Wolf
Peach
Charizard
Olimar
Ike
Lucas
Bowser
Ness
Link
Mario
Samus
Yoshi

-Bottom Tier-
Ivysaur
Captain Falcon
Sonic
Ganondorf
[ currently~fulfilling my focus ]

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(*Jman*)
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Kakatte Koi!

Meta Knight should be above Snake and Dedede.
Icies should be in high tier right above Pit
Jigglypuff should be above Kirby
Pikachu should be above Wario
Zelda and Sheik should both be right below Squirtle
Lucas and Bowser should be above Ike
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Inui
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Power of Flower

Starcock
Jun 11 2008, 07:21 PM
Meta Knight should be above Snake and Dedede.
Icies should be in high tier right above Pit
Jigglypuff should be above Kirby
Pikachu should be above Wario
Zelda and Sheik should both be right below Squirtle
Lucas and Bowser should be above Ike

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
No, Pikachu doesn't place high in tournaments or win majors; where's the evidence to support that when Wario is doing so much better?
No, since they don't usually count as being used together intelligenty; if anything Zelda/Sheik should have their own spot listed like that.
Not Lucas.
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Cubic
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ZA WARUDO

-Top Tier-
Snake
Meta Knight
Dedede

-High Tier-
Game and Watch
Toon Link
Falco
Marth
R.O.B.
Diddy Kong
Ice Climbers
Pit

-Mid Tier-
Squirtle
Wario
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Kirby
Fox
Zelda
Sheik
Zero Suit Samus
Lucario

-Low Tier-
Donkey Kong
Luigi
Wolf
Peach
Charizard
Olimar
Bowser
Ike
Lucas
Ness
Link
Mario
Samus
Yoshi

-Bottom Tier-
Ivysaur
Captain Falcon
Sonic
Ganondorf

Made changes on what you guys said, however, I'm still under the impression that Snake is the best character due to gayness. Solid agrees as well.
[ currently~fulfilling my focus ]

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Inui
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Power of Flower

How are Falco and Toon Link better than Marth? Game and Watch maybe, but those two? No way.

I also see a tier gap between DK/Luigi/Wolf/Peach and Ness/Link/Mario/Samus/Yoshi, and tournament results reflect that.
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Cubic
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Toon link is an amazing camper, has insanely quick aerials, is small, fast, great recovery, and a tether grab. It's a touch choice, IMO. Falco, .. eh, I'm not sure on that one. I could be wrong, but after watching that japanese vid, I sort of fell in love with him. >_>; Also, spacing out tiers again.

-Top Tier-
Snake
Meta Knight
Dedede

-High Tier-
Game and Watch
Toon Link
Marth
Falco
R.O.B.
Diddy Kong
Ice Climbers
Pit

-Mid Tier-
Squirtle
Wario
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Kirby
Fox
Zelda
Sheik
Zero Suit Samus
Lucario

-Low Tier-
Donkey Kong
Luigi
Wolf
Peach
Charizard
Olimar
Bowser
Ike
Lucas

-Bottom Tier-
Ness
Mario
Link
Samus
Yoshi
Ivysaur
Captain Falcon
Sonic
Ganondorf

Since Bottom tier is bigger, and is now more general, I wouldn't necessarily say that it's a stretch to include those characters.
[ currently~fulfilling my focus ]

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Inui
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Power of Flower

-Marth is doing significantly better in the tournament scene.
-Marth crushes other characters worse than Toon Link does, and he's better equipped to deal with characters like Meta Knight and Dedede; better anti-grab game, more range, magical up B escape from chaingrabs, and counter to deal with insane high priority moves.
-Marth is faster than them and has more reliable edgeguards.
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Tiaro
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BOOM! Headshot. :3

Inui
Jun 11 2008, 09:45 PM
-Marth is doing significantly better in the tournament scene.
-Marth crushes other characters worse than Toon Link does, and he's better equipped to deal with characters like Meta Knight and Dedede; better anti-grab game, more range, magical up B escape from chaingrabs, and counter to deal with insane high priority moves.
-Marth is faster than them and has more reliable edgeguards.

Plus Marth's forward B moves are pretty amazing. <3
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Linkssword


Switch Game & Watch and Dedede. Bair approach with G&W is freaking amazing.
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Inui
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Power of Flower

Linkssword
Jun 11 2008, 09:50 PM
Switch Game & Watch and Dedede. Bair approach with G&W is freaking amazing.

lol, no. Dedede is better than Game and Watch.

Why do people think Dedede is NOT the third best? It's insane.
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Neo
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Tits and Ass

Tiltyu
Jun 11 2008, 09:41 PM
-Low Tier-
Luigi
Wolf
Peach
Charizard
Olimar
Bowser
Ike
Lucas

-Bottom Tier-
Yoshi
Link
Mario
Ness
Samus


-Garbage Tier-
Ivysaur
Sonic
Ganondorf

Fixed that tier list a bit.
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Pyro Ice
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Check The Blueprint...

Inui
Jun 11 2008, 10:08 PM
Why do people think Dedede is NOT the third best? It's insane.

I agree with this. Even though I'm a noob at Brawl, DDD is h4x.
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Inui
Jun 11 2008, 08:14 PM
No, Pikachu doesn't place high in tournaments or win majors; where's the evidence to support that when Wario is doing so much better?
No, since they don't usually count as being used together intelligenty; if anything Zelda/Sheik should have their own spot listed like that.
Not Lucas.

Azen's done well with Pikachu. Also, Pikachu is superior at camping, has a gay recovery, and can chaingrab spacies. I watched Futile vs HugS grand finals last match, HugS doesn't even use ROB's up air <_<. If that's the kind of competition Futile's getting in grand finals then it isn't enough evidence that Wario is amazing.

I was talking about both Zelda and Sheik individually, actually.

Lucas can camp relatively well and can easily punish sidesteps and airdodges with strong moves.

Inui
 
Marth crushes other characters worse than Toon Link does, and he's better equipped to deal with characters like Meta Knight and Dedede; better anti-grab game, more range, magical up B escape from chaingrabs, and counter to deal with insane high priority moves.

Meta Knight - possibly. Dedede - No. Toon Link's camping is gay to Dedede. While Marth has more range than Toon Link, TL still has numerous safe options on shield.

Inui
 
How are Falco and Toon Link better than Marth? Game and Watch maybe, but those two? No way.

Sethlon used Falco at Hobo 5 in Texas and got first. Falco has chaingrabbing and on characters he can't chaingrab at low % he has dthrow dash attack canceled into upsmash for 31 damage. Falco has some real gayness vs Snake. Either he chaingrabs him to the ledge and spikes or if he's high enough on % that you won't reach the side of the stage you have dthrow dair --> laserlock. The dair is hard to tech at 40% and Snake is going to eat a ton of damage from that. It's also a joke to edgeguard Snake with Falco because all you have to do is spike him over and over through the cypher.

Falco also does fine vs Metaknight. The chaingrab goes until 36 but at 32 Falco can dthrow dair --> laserlock. A relatively large part of Meta's game is edgeguarding and Falco is hard as hell to edgeguard.

The best two characters in the game aside, Falco shuts down projectile camping from anyone with his shine. Nair and dair can't be shieldgrabbed if you space them, nair combos into uptilt or jabs if you don't get the last hit off. Speaking of jabs, Falco's jabs are amazing. If you cancel the rapid jabs before they DI out of them you can usually catch your opponent with them again and if you wait for them to DI out if they try to hit you then you can roll behind and do them again. Even if they don't try to hit you after them, you're going to force them to do SOMETHING, and that's never a bad thing.

Falco being better than Marth is definitely debatable.
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Inui
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Starcock
Jun 11 2008, 10:57 PM
Azen's done well with Pikachu. Also, Pikachu is superior at camping, has a gay recovery, and can chaingrab spacies. I watched Futile vs HugS grand finals last match, HugS doesn't even use ROB's up air <_<. If that's the kind of competition Futile's getting in grand finals then it isn't enough evidence that Wario is amazing.

Azen does well...with anyone. Azen almost lost to Boss with Pikachu. Futile vs HugS wasn't grand finals at that huge event. HugS only got 7th, I believe. Futile beat DSF, and is currently ranked top on the West Coast, and he mains Wario. Pikachu doesn't do that anywhere. What Pikachus have you seen do anything in our region? Azen. That's it.

Quote:
 
I was talking about both Zelda and Sheik individually, actually. 


How is Sheik and/or Zelda used alone better than a character like Wario, Kirby, and Fox? I just don't see it, and I've seen and played both your Zelda/Sheik and Ryoko's.

Quote:
 
Lucas can camp relatively well and can easily punish sidesteps and airdodges with strong moves.


Lucas's camping is easy to work around since it's just SH PK Fire and PK Thunder sometimes from far away.

Lucas is also very easy to both punish and kill.

I three and twostocked Comp's Lucas in tourny and he's supposed to be decent.

How is Lucas NOT trash?

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Meta Knight - possibly.  Dedede - No.  Toon Link's camping is gay to Dedede.  While Marth has more range than Toon Link, TL still has numerous safe options on shield. 


It's true that Toon Link has projectile camping, but he's both easier to chaingrab and lacks a 1-frame escape move. Marth's safe-on-shield options are less, but they are all he needs. Dedede can't do anything against a Marth that both spaces and camps, as I have learned and seen thanks to Emblem Lord. Dedede still does fine in the match, but so does Marth.

Marth also utterly crushes most of the cast while I can't say the same about Toon Link.

Quote:
 
Sethlon used Falco at Hobo 5 in Texas and got first.


Sethlon is indeed good, but that was his only win so far. He's lost numerous times to people like Mr. 3000, Hylian, and T-Rex.

"Roy_R and I both forfeited to Sethlon in losers. I knocked Sethlon into losers and Roy_R knocked me into losers. Stiltz knocked Roy_R in. So Roy_R and I both forfieted to Sethlon in losers and sethlon 6-0'ed stiltz in the grand finals. We then split 1st and 3rd >_>."

~Hylian

Sethlon got lucky.

Quote:
 
Falco has chaingrabbing and on characters he can't chaingrab at low % he has dthrow dash attack canceled into upsmash for 31 damage.  Falco has some real gayness vs Snake.  Either he chaingrabs him to the ledge and spikes or if he's high enough on % that you won't reach the side of the stage you have dthrow dair --> laserlock.  The dair is hard to tech at 40% and Snake is going to eat a ton of damage from that.  It's also a joke to edgeguard Snake with Falco because all you have to do is spike him over and over through the cypher. 


Snake can hit him twice and do 40%. Snake can kill Falco at extremely low percents with various options, going as low as 50%. Snake can potentially kill Falco in three hits. Snake outprioritizes Falco in almost every exchange. Snake has a 4-frame, gigantic punisher, as well as a 3-frame jab. Snake can counter-camp well enough to force Falco to approach him.

To say Falco wins that match is absurd to me. Falco just isn't raped since he's an amazing character as well.

Quote:
 
Falco also does fine vs Metaknight.  The chaingrab goes until 36 but at 32 Falco can dthrow dair --> laserlock.  A relatively large part of Meta's game is edgeguarding and Falco is hard as hell to edgeguard.


I do not find Falco difficult to edgeguard, and that includes really good Falcos like Keitaro's. If you know the f-b is coming, it's perfectly punishable. Meta Knight doesn't care about Falco's camping, can gimp him, and punishes anything he does with 5-frame or less moves.

A lot of what you're saying against Snake and Meta Knight involves missed techs, improperly dealing with camping, improperly dealing with Falco's f-b, and getting grabbed consistently at low damage. How do you not see this?

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The best two characters in the game aside, Falco shuts down projectile camping from anyone with his shine.  Nair and dair can't be shieldgrabbed if you space them, nair combos into uptilt or jabs if you don't get the last hit off.  Speaking of jabs, Falco's jabs are amazing.  If you cancel the rapid jabs before they DI out of them you can usually catch your opponent with them again and if you wait for them to DI out if they try to hit you then you can roll behind and do them again.  Even if they don't try to hit you after them, you're going to force them to do SOMETHING, and that's never a bad thing.


Falco doesn't shut it down. He merely has a defense against it. If he's down on percent, he can't camp shine all day. His shine won't actually send every projectile ever back at the other person. Toon Link's, for example, can be used in a way that Toon Link won't get hit by them when they bounce back. This also applies to Snake's grenades and nikita, Pit's arrows, and basically any projectile besides lasers.

Say "n-air and d-air can't get shieldgrabbed" to any character with a tether grab or Dedede. Marth can't shieldgrab it, but he can f-b those moves out of shield.

Fuck that Keitaro Time shit. I punished it almost every time with pivot f-b, and you can easily avoid it by just walking in the other direction.
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