| Welcome to Fusion. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you are registering with a Yahoo e-mail address, or if you are having trouble receiving your validation e-mail, please refer to this topic for assistance. If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Brawl Tier List | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 20 2008, 10:11 AM (5,546 Views) | |
| Super Saiyan SolidSense | May 3 2008, 01:33 PM Post #76 |
![]() ![]()
|
"Better recovery" is true, but Snake's recovery is h4x in its own right, so that's not saying a whole lot (at lower percents, he can Cypher twice by blowing himself up with Down-B and regenerating the move). Harder to hit, granted. However, Snake is in the heaviest weight category (along with DK, Dedede, and Bowser, according to M2K's weight charts), whereas Meta Knight is in one of the lowest - heavier than Jiggs and G&W, of course, but just as light as Kirby and crew. That makes for a huge difference in KO ranges. Then on the offensive, almost every single one of Snake's non-projectile moves are pwn KO moves, while MK has just a few good KO moves (up-B, d-smash, and to an extent u-tilt). MK has a much better offstage game to compensate, but then Snake also has some ridiculously fast attacks of his own onstage such as his jab, f-tilt, and u-tilt, and a lot of his attacks have huge range, such as his u-air and b-air (b-air can hit opponents in front of him as well as behind, albeit it does have a bit of lag). So I can see a case made for Snake winning both offense AND defense - though I'm giving the nod towards MK on the offensive. Add projectiles to that pot o' stew, and I'm seeing Snake as the winner. His projectiles/mines make for awesome mindgames. As much as Diddy's bananas narrow the foe's options, Snake's mines do so even more, and at greater risk (KA-BOOM!) - his grenade can even be cancelled and turned into a third mine if he want, for a total of 4 possible mines on the field. Mortar Slide is also infinitely cool, though it's not practical in a lot of situations. >_>
Reverse Shuttle Loop is probably his best KO move, but d-smash is pretty pwn too (it has a greater range behind him than it does in front of him and is nigh lagless, making it quite versatile). Don't forget about u-tilt, though. It's pretty pwnsome as a KO move, and it comes out with minimal lag. It has greater knockback than his u-smash does, so if you u-smash until higher percents, you can preserve his u-tilt as an easy KO move (try it on Battlefield while the opponent is on a platform).
Are you finishing it while in the air? Don't do that, as a rule, because then you go into FallSpecial and can be vulnerable to attacks. Try and quickly whirl in and finish while on or near the ground. Also, make sure that the very last blow of it hits - this is the blow that knocks your opponent away and gives you some breathing room during the half-second or so when you're vulnerable following the attack. All of the game's characters have some means of stopping the Mach Tornado, but it's extremely difficult to pull this off repeatedly (G&W, for instance, can short hop and key spike, and Marth's counter works to an extent). |
![]() |
|
| Inui | May 3 2008, 01:42 PM Post #77 |
|
Power of Flower
![]()
|
Snake's can't sweetspot, meaning if he's under the stage I get to charge a down smash and hit him with it for free, which can easily kill him. He may have super armour during it, but it's easy to hit him out of that with strong moves or just force an airdodge. Snake dies at higher percents, but he's significantly easier to actually hit. teh_spamerer and dmbrandon are incredibly hard to hit and MetaKnight can't be chaingrabbed. When I play against Yehs's Snake, I can CG him to 50ish with Falco or do nasty stuff with Dedede's CG. Snake also has actual lag on his moves, so he gets hit more. MetaKnight can gimp people off the stage reliably. Nobody is going to deny that Snake's KO power is insane, but it's easier for MetaKnight to hit his downsmash or shuttle loop than it is for Snake to hit his KO moves. Snake can't do the offstage gimping stuff too well, either. I can see the cases for both since Snake is amazing, but I'm giving MetaKnight both offense and defense. Snake is easier to combo, gets chaingrabbed, is easier to hit in general, and loses massively in recovery. Diddy's bananas force trips into combos, and there's nothing you can do once the banana hits you. Snake's explosives don't combo. They're annoying, good for pressure, and can kill people at higher damages, but they're not top tier in projectiles. Pit's arrows are better. Even Link has a better projectile game. MetaKnight doesn't need projectiles when he has so much mobility that he can't be camped. No, it's actually very useful. What are you talking about? Every tier list made by the experienced players is very different. However, the one thing that remains consistent is MetaKnight > Snake > Dedede in the top three. |
| |
![]() |
|
| cool story bro | May 3 2008, 01:52 PM Post #78 |
![]()
|
Could you explain some of the recent changes you made? I'm bewildered that you think Charizard is high tier. Other things, such as moving DK above Luigi, and DeDeDe to the top of top, don't surprise me as much. |
| A NEW WORLD ORDER | |
![]() |
|
| Inui | May 3 2008, 01:57 PM Post #79 |
|
Power of Flower
![]()
|
Charizard can do 49 damage with one hit of Rock Smash. He's heavy, so he can live a while if he's not gimped. Huge range and power on a lot of moves. His fire breath is gay like Bowser's. He was not allowed in the mid/low tier tourny last night. |
| |
![]() |
|
| cool story bro | May 3 2008, 01:59 PM Post #80 |
![]()
|
Why did you bump Wario down to low tier? I thought his mid tier position was pretty accurate. |
| A NEW WORLD ORDER | |
![]() |
|
| Inui | May 3 2008, 02:04 PM Post #81 |
|
Power of Flower
![]()
|
I'm an idiot. I forgot to move him up to top of mid tier. |
| |
![]() |
|
| cool story bro | May 3 2008, 02:06 PM Post #82 |
![]()
|
Ok, this leads to ANOTHER QUESTION Kirby at high tier? Maybe you had him earlier and I missed it, but what makes him good? I don't think I've ever seen a video of a good Kirby player, or anything of the sort. |
| A NEW WORLD ORDER | |
![]() |
|
| Inui | May 3 2008, 02:12 PM Post #83 |
|
Power of Flower
![]()
|
He has like 60% combos on people, h4x recovery, and he's GAY. Eazy rapes my non-mains with him so badly with Kirby nonsense.
|
| |
![]() |
|
| Neo | May 3 2008, 02:17 PM Post #84 |
|
Tits and Ass
![]()
|
Non mains? You're basing this on non mains? lulz |
|
| |
![]() |
|
| Inui | May 3 2008, 02:19 PM Post #85 |
|
Power of Flower
![]()
|
I mean I need my top tier faggot characters to win against his Kirby. I'm not basing it on that shit. I'm not some scrub, so fuck you. Kirby's combos put him high up. |
| |
![]() |
|
| Neo | May 3 2008, 02:46 PM Post #86 |
|
Tits and Ass
![]()
|
But aren't you supposed to do tier lists by maining characters and showing off their potential? I mean, an awesome kirby and a shitty rob, the kirby will win. |
|
| |
![]() |
|
| Slit | May 3 2008, 06:11 PM Post #87 |
![]()
|
As far as the tier list goes...I disagree. I gotta eat dinner. |
|
[size=20]FEFF's Best PKMN Player[/size] [size=23]FEFF's Best Smasher[/size] [size=23]Lost Temple For Life[/size] | |
![]() |
|
| Super Saiyan SolidSense | May 3 2008, 07:29 PM Post #88 |
![]() ![]()
|
Depending on the character, but granted. That factors into "better recovery."
The latter was mentioned. The former, it depends. Since Snake has more KO moves, he can use them in more situations. MK suddenly loses the power to KO on-stage (no Shuttle Loop) if he's been using his d-smash too much, whereas Snake doesn't share that problem. Used too much of his jab? Switch to f-tilt. Used too much f-tilt? Short hop a d-air (though that's a little situation-specific).
Eh, I don't see how MK can win defense. Offense, yes, I already said I agreed with that, but at the very best the two tie on defense (recovery/more difficult to hit vs. dies at way higher percentages...not every character can chaingrab, by the way, so that's a pretty specific scenario considering that there are so many usable characters in this game).
They don't combo but they do higher damage/have more knockback and you can have more of them on the field at once. No, they're probably not better than the bananas, but they're pretty damned useful. They don't have to be top tier; they just have to be there and be good (which they are) to be an advantage that Snake has over Meta Knight. MK may not "need" projectiles since he can't get camped, but having them > not.
I didn't say it wasn't useful. I just said that many times it's not very practical to use (certainly it's not as often as MK's Tornado). Also, calling it useful just makes another point chalked up for Snake. Overall, it's not something I'd argue for very strongly - as long as both are considered the best in the game, I don't see any fallacy here. I'm just presenting my view of it.
That statement, while it doesn't prove things one way or the other (as a debater, I'm disinclined to put much weight on "the elite pplz say this, so it's right" statements), does reassure me, since those are my three mains. >_> |
![]() |
|
| cool story bro | May 4 2008, 12:49 AM Post #89 |
![]()
|
I have a question.... Do you have any experience with the "Lucas-chain grab"? I just discovered this on Smashboards, and it's apparently devastating towards any Lucas or Ness player. I really don't want to switch my main, but if this is as bad as it sounds, I may be forced to consider. Here is the topic if you're not sure what I'm talking about. |
| A NEW WORLD ORDER | |
![]() |
|
| Inui | May 4 2008, 01:44 AM Post #90 |
|
Power of Flower
![]()
|
As an extremely inexperienced, non-tournament player, you should probably consider the advice and opinions of long-established top players over your own. I hope that nonsense gets banned, Phil. |
| |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
![]() Join the millions that use us for their forum communities. Create your own forum today. Learn More · Sign-up for Free |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Console Gaming · Next Topic » |
| Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
9:49 AM Jul 11
|








9:49 AM Jul 11