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Brawl Tier List
Topic Started: Apr 20 2008, 10:11 AM (5,544 Views)
Super Saiyan SolidSense
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Quote:
 
Blah blah blah, you should get it by now. Professional opinion is justification.


No, it's not. Opinions must have logical explanations behind them or else you can't expect others to believe in them.

I respect you as a smash player, but you're just downright wrong if you think that whatever the professional community agrees upon at any one time is correct and should be accepted by all. That's to say that human beings shouldn't even have the ability to think for themselves.

If the professional community at one time agreed that Sheik was Top Tier in Melee and then years later considered her only High Tier, does that mean she actually changed in value? No, of course not. The game is static; she's the same as she always was, no better, no worse. Opinions changed. Maybe new facts were uncovered. So, in that case, the professional community was wrong, and they discovered that they were wrong later.

I'm surprised that you, as a debater, fail to see the logical fallacy in saying "if all the good pplz share an opinion, it has to be right." That's certainly not true. All the good debaters in FE a long time ago considered Lowen Low Tier trash. Is that where he is now? No. Opinions change; facts don't. For that reason, when I have someone disagreeing with me, I'm not content until I see concrete facts disproving my case.

Yes, you explained yourself in Snake vs. MK, and I understand what you said. I'm not contending it anymore. I simply resent the statement "you should agree with what we think just because we are who we are." That's a ludicrous proposition, and I find it personally offensive.

Quote:
 
non-tournament people should just go "oh okay"


In that case, why make this thread? Most of us are not professional smash players, so our opinions don't matter. All we should do is go "oh okay" once to your posted tier list and then stop posting.


Edit:

Quote:
 
an amazing recovery move


lol

A tether? How is a tether recovery amazing?
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Yzarc
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Coxian

Oh my god, this topic is making my balls shrink. You're arguing about how to argue. Marcus, all they're asking is for some information as to why various characters are better than others, with "because these people said so" as an omitted or given reason. Like, different reasons. Okay, so a super god pro says this. Why does he say this? No one is questioning his godlikeness (wow, godlikeness wasn't underlined by Firefox. That's a fucking word?) but we just want to know why that godlike person believes what he believes.
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Super Saiyan SolidSense
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Quote:
 
Oh my god, this topic is making my balls shrink. You're arguing about how to argue.


Sorry for derailing the topic. I was just extremely offended at being told to believe something just because others do. I wasn't trying to tell him how to argue; that just happened to factor into my post.
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Yzarc
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Coxian

I'll let it slide, 'cause you're sexy.
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Super Saiyan SolidSense
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Yzarc Drowsnam
May 5 2008, 04:37 AM
I'll let it slide, 'cause you're sexy.

<3

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Inui
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Power of Flower

Pyro Ice
May 4 2008, 08:30 PM
Bowser is a huge target, so anything Olimar throws at him will hit him (or any move ANYONE throws at him, for that matter). His moves are slow and he has terrible recovery.

Olimar is quick, has varied moves, great aerials and an amazing recovery move. He can rack up damage easily with his side-b. Sure, he's light, but KOing him isn't that easy if you keep distance from whoever you're playing with. Any skilled Olimar player will be careful enough not to run out of Pikmin, so the statement that he sucks without them is very situational and should not apply when making a tier list.

The only real downsides I think Olimar has are that he is too light and floaty when falling down and that he sucks w/o Pikmin.

His size doesn't matter if you just block, airdodge, or sidestep. If Bowser's recovery is terrible, then Olimar's is the worst recovery in the history of Smash.

Olimar's recovery is amazing? Wtf? You get him off the stage at any percent, edgehog him, and he dies. He's got the worst recovery in the game. He's the single easiest character in the game to KO. Something tells me you have never played anyone that actually exists, let alone actually good. Olimar doesn't start off with Pikmin when he comes back, and he can be put in situations where he has few or none of them. It definitely happens. I do it to Olimar players.

His downside is that he instantly dies off the stage. That's one of the worst flaws in the whole game. Only Ivysaur has that same level of suck in terms of recovery, except he's heavier.

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Super Saiyan SolidSense
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Quote:
 
Something tells me you have never played anyone that actually exists


pwn, sig'd
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Pyro Ice
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Check The Blueprint...

Inui
May 4 2008, 11:48 PM
Pyro Ice
May 4 2008, 08:30 PM
Bowser is a huge target, so anything Olimar throws at him will hit him (or any move ANYONE throws at him, for that matter). His moves are slow and he has terrible recovery.

Olimar is quick, has varied moves, great aerials and an amazing recovery move. He can rack up damage easily with his side-b. Sure, he's light, but KOing him isn't that easy if you keep distance from whoever you're playing with. Any skilled Olimar player will be careful enough not to run out of Pikmin, so the statement that he sucks without them is very situational and should not apply when making a tier list.

The only real downsides I think Olimar has are that he is too light and floaty when falling down and that he sucks w/o Pikmin.

His size doesn't matter if you just block, airdodge, or sidestep. If Bowser's recovery is terrible, then Olimar's is the worst recovery in the history of Smash.

Olimar's recovery is amazing? Wtf? You get him off the stage at any percent, edgehog him, and he dies. He's got the worst recovery in the game. He's the single easiest character in the game to KO. Something tells me you have never played anyone that actually exists, let alone actually good. Olimar doesn't start off with Pikmin when he comes back, and he can be put in situations where he has few or none of them. It definitely happens. I do it to Olimar players.

His downside is that he instantly dies off the stage. That's one of the worst flaws in the whole game. Only Ivysaur has that same level of suck in terms of recovery, except he's heavier.

Maybe it's because I'm a casual gamer, and whenever I play with my friends we all agree that edgehogging is cheap and just don't do it, so he's a pretty decent character in the situations I play in. Maybe that's why I think Olimar's recovery is good. =/ Thanks for giving me facts about it and answering though.

Since good players only play at tournaments, and I don't plan going to any, I can still use Olimar right? I won't ever play against anyone good anyways.
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"Champions are made from something they have deep inside them: a desire, a dream, a vision."
~ Muhammad Ali

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PROUD EX-MEMBER OF DA NIGGAZ
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Inui
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Power of Flower

Pyro Ice
May 5 2008, 12:16 AM
Inui
May 4 2008, 11:48 PM
Pyro Ice
May 4 2008, 08:30 PM
Bowser is a huge target, so anything Olimar throws at him will hit him (or any move ANYONE throws at him, for that matter). His moves are slow and he has terrible recovery.

Olimar is quick, has varied moves, great aerials and an amazing recovery move. He can rack up damage easily with his side-b. Sure, he's light, but KOing him isn't that easy if you keep distance from whoever you're playing with. Any skilled Olimar player will be careful enough not to run out of Pikmin, so the statement that he sucks without them is very situational and should not apply when making a tier list.

The only real downsides I think Olimar has are that he is too light and floaty when falling down and that he sucks w/o Pikmin.

His size doesn't matter if you just block, airdodge, or sidestep. If Bowser's recovery is terrible, then Olimar's is the worst recovery in the history of Smash.

Olimar's recovery is amazing? Wtf? You get him off the stage at any percent, edgehog him, and he dies. He's got the worst recovery in the game. He's the single easiest character in the game to KO. Something tells me you have never played anyone that actually exists, let alone actually good. Olimar doesn't start off with Pikmin when he comes back, and he can be put in situations where he has few or none of them. It definitely happens. I do it to Olimar players.

His downside is that he instantly dies off the stage. That's one of the worst flaws in the whole game. Only Ivysaur has that same level of suck in terms of recovery, except he's heavier.

Maybe it's because I'm a casual gamer, and whenever I play with my friends we all agree that edgehogging is cheap and just don't do it, so he's a pretty decent character in the situations I play in. Maybe that's why I think Olimar's recovery is good. =/ Thanks for giving me facts about it and answering though.

Since good players only play at tournaments, and I don't plan going to any, I can still use Olimar right? I won't ever play against anyone good anyways.

lol wtf Edgehogging is part of the game and actually nerfed now. Nothing is cheap unless it's insane banned stuff like items, infinites, and horrible stages. lol @ "casual gamers" and their total lack of desire to win and be skilled.

Uh, I guess. He's viable in tournament play anyways. It's a shame that you're never going to try to become anything more than a meh casual player.
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cool story bro


Speaking of banned stuff, are you banning the infinite on Lucas/Ness at your tournament? :(

On the topic of Olimar, he is really good, until you knock him off the stage. He has the shittiest recovery in the game, IMO. Not only is it super easy to gimp, but it's hard to get even when there is nobody on the ledge. D:
A NEW WORLD ORDER
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Admin
There is a light that never goes out...

@Pyro: Just because a character is "bad", or "not good", or "low tier", or anything like that doesn't mean you can't use a character. It just means they are bad/not good/low tier. Use whoever you want, no one is trying to make you do otherwise.
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Yzarc
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Coxian

Inui
May 5 2008, 12:19 AM
It's a shame that you're never going to try to become anything more than a meh casual player.

No one says he isn't gonna try to be more than a meh casual player. He's probably gonna be more than that, but in, you know, some other category than Smash Bros? It's hard to believe, dude, but just because someone doesn't take a game incredibly seriously, doesn't mean they fail at life.
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Soja
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Gentle Water, Crashing Waves

Yzarc Drowsnam
May 5 2008, 10:29 PM
Inui
May 5 2008, 12:19 AM
It's a shame that you're never going to try to become anything more than a meh casual player.

No one says he isn't gonna try to be more than a meh casual player. He's probably gonna be more than that, but in, you know, some other category than Smash Bros? It's hard to believe, dude, but just because someone doesn't take a game incredibly seriously, doesn't mean they fail at life.

Give it up, Yzarc. Much as I do agree with your comment.

I've been saying the same thing as you for years and he still says the same thing about casual players. :psypoke: casual players barely count for human opponents, let alone existing ones

Sadly, I'm compelled to agree with Inui, partially. He taught me a few tricks and tactics tourney players use. Habits to get into, etc. Mind games. I found myself easily destroying all comers with almost any character, especially on Melee. Pulling them into stupid decisions. No-win situations. Anticipating their next move.

It was pretty sad.
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Mirar on Sep 8 2007
06:08 PM
nigga please
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Inui
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Soja
May 5 2008, 10:47 PM
Sadly, I'm compelled to agree with Inui, partially. He taught me a few tricks and tactics tourney players use. Habits to get into, etc. Mind games. I found myself easily destroying all comers with almost any character, especially on Melee. Pulling them into stupid decisions. No-win situations. Anticipating their next move.

It was pretty sad.

You did this to normal players.

Now imagine how I feel about normal players. :lol:
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Grady
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As FEFF's Best Smasher, I demand this argument to end.
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