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Smash Bros. Help Topic; Q & A
Topic Started: May 27 2008, 07:45 PM (2,054 Views)
Super Saiyan SolidSense
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Arc
Jun 4 2008, 11:37 PM
I've already did that, but I still can't seem to pull off tilts, I seem to have got it stuck in my brain to smash. Any others that you can think of?

It usually doesn't cause me any troubles because I'm 10-15 times better than the best of my opponets, so I can get around it, but it killed me in the one tournament I entered. I'm trying to break the habit before entering another.

For a tilt, hold down the direction before pressing A. I can guarantee you can't smash if you do it that way, no matter how you press the A button. Go into Training Mode and practice this a thousand times. Keep on holding down a direction prior to tilting, and then gogogo.
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Arc


I'll try it, thanks.
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Linky
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Cubic
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ZA WARUDO

Baaaaaaw. What's this topic called? Oh yeah, "Smash Bros. Help Topic". So, if you don't want to answer my questions, just don't respond. I'll wait for someone else to answer it.
[ currently~fulfilling my focus ]

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Super Saiyan SolidSense
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Tiltyu
Jun 5 2008, 01:13 AM
Baaaaaaw. What's this topic called? Oh yeah, "Smash Bros. Help Topic". So, if you don't want to answer my questions, just don't respond. I'll wait for someone else to answer it.

You could just, you know, go to the Zero Suit Samus boards on Smashboards and All Is Brawl and read some guides....? I don't understand. Why aren't you willing to read a guide? We'd just say the same stuff as in the guides, anyway. Videos are also awesome.
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Bossadai
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New Days

Maybe she did already, and wants to supplement her knowledge of ZZS with personal experiences and the like with people both here and at Smashboards.

lol overreaction.
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Super Saiyan SolidSense
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Bryars
Jun 5 2008, 01:41 AM
Maybe she did already, and wants to supplement her knowledge of ZZS with personal experiences and the like with people both here and at Smashboards.

lol overreaction.

Well, I'm not really sure what to say that's not already in the guides. If she asked specific stuff like "advanced edgeguarding techniques for ZSS?" maybe I could answer, but "tips for X?" is too general; what do I cover? There's way too much to say.

Generally, the distance of her short hop sucks. Her tilts are awesome, and her u-smash and f-smash are pretty situational. Up-B and side-B are better moves to use to attack in most cases. Abuse d-smash. You can combo into it twice. Her u-air is good. Her spacing is tricky, but with some practice, she can be deadly.

See? I couldn't get into any of that. I could have gone extensively into d-smash and its follow-ups if I knew that she wanted more specific information about it in particular.
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Bossadai
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New Days

Quote:
 
Well, I'm not really sure what to say that's not already in the guides.

Then don't say anything.

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Generally, the distance of her short hop sucks. Her tilts are awesome, and her u-smash and f-smash are pretty situational. Up-B and side-B are better moves to use to attack in most cases. Abuse d-smash. You can combo into it twice. Her u-air is good. Her spacing is tricky, but with some practice, she can be deadly.


You could have just said this and have avoided confrontation in the first place;I'm sure it's what she was looking for.

Or if that's what it says in the guides, then you either could have said it anyway, or just not have said anything. :crash:

TOO MANY BAD FEELINGS! LET'S ALL GET ALONG!

Anyways, I have a Ness question. On average, what % does his b-throw ensure a KO?
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Super Saiyan SolidSense
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Then don't say anything.


That would make it seem like I don't want to help. Of course I want to help. But I can't help if you ask vague questions. There's just too much to cover. My posts "confronting" her were basically trying to get her to help me to help her out.

But meh, whatever.

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Anyways, I have a Ness question. On average, what % does his b-throw ensure a KO?


Well, it depends on two things: where you are on the stage and how much the opponent weighs. For someone such as Link, you can kill from the edge of Final Destination as early as 100%, if his DI is bad. At around 112-115%, you can expect to have him KO'd unless he manages to predict your attack and DI really well. For someone such as Meta, 90% is about where he'll die with bad DI from the edge of FD. At 105% or so, it's a solid shot at the KO. For Snake or the heaviest group of characters weightwise, 125%-130% from the edge is a nice shot.

Generally, anything at 120% or above is a good idea. For heavier characters, aim at 130%.
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Cubic
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ZA WARUDO

SolidSense
Jun 4 2008, 08:44 PM
Bryars
Jun 5 2008, 01:41 AM
Maybe she did already, and wants to supplement her knowledge of ZZS with  personal experiences and the like with people both here and at Smashboards.

lol overreaction.

Well, I'm not really sure what to say that's not already in the guides. If she asked specific stuff like "advanced edgeguarding techniques for ZSS?" maybe I could answer, but "tips for X?" is too general; what do I cover? There's way too much to say.

Generally, the distance of her short hop sucks. Her tilts are awesome, and her u-smash and f-smash are pretty situational. Up-B and side-B are better moves to use to attack in most cases. Abuse d-smash. You can combo into it twice. Her u-air is good. Her spacing is tricky, but with some practice, she can be deadly.

See? I couldn't get into any of that. I could have gone extensively into d-smash and its follow-ups if I knew that she wanted more specific information about it in particular.

Yep, that's exactly what I wanted; when I say vague stuff like that, I basically just want advice on what not to do, what not to spam, ect. Thanks. (And my post wasn't directed at you, it was twoards Lucas.) ^_^
[ currently~fulfilling my focus ]

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Inui
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Power of Flower

I linked you to the absolute best thing possible for learning Lucario, one of your mains, and you refused to watch it. I'm pretty darn discouraged when it comes to helping you out now. :(
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Arc


Another question.

When is damage too high to do snakes down b cypher trick?
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Inui
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Arc
Jun 5 2008, 06:51 AM
Another question.

When is damage too high to do snakes down b cypher trick?

You mean blowing yourself up to recover? I honestly don't know since I don't play no god tiers, especially Ekans.

It depends on how strong the C4 is, as in, did you use it before and did it's strength decrease. Then it also depends on what stage you're on since they all have different ceilings and then how far down you are when you do it.

It's safe at low percents and dangerous at high percents.

I'm too lazy to find a vid of PsychoMidget doing the best Snake recovery evar, but I'm sure Solid can find it easily.
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(*Jman*)
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Leon
Jun 4 2008, 10:52 AM
Fast ways to break out of a grab?

This is from Melee but
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The formula for escaping a grab (NOT special grabs, like Bowser's Koopa Klaw) is the following. The variables are, as you probably know, "t" = time(in frames) stuck in a grab, "b" = amount of times victim presses buttons to escape quicker, and "d" = damage of victim.

The formula is...

"t" = "1.6d" + 76 - "6b"

-----Press A, B, L, R, X, Y, or Z - 6 frames is reduced from the time you'd be held in a grab.

-----Press The Analog stick in 1 of the 4 cardinal directions(angles don't count) - 6 frames is reduced from the time you're held in a grab (24 frames is reduced after 1 complete rotation of the analog stick, so 2 and 1/2 rotations reduces the time by 1 second).


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Inui
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Power of Flower

I never knew that formula. :o

Thanks, Kashif.
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Super Saiyan SolidSense
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I'm too lazy to find a vid of PsychoMidget doing the best Snake recovery evar, but I'm sure Solid can find it easily.


Best Recovery Ever

Check that around 2:10. You can actually do the trick until really, really high percents if you can tech well.

Now to cover some older stuff.

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I can manage to chain grab level nine comps well, but is it easy to get out if it's a real player or what? Cause lately I've been starting off by dashing, then semi-pivot grabbing my opponent and Chain grabbing them with D-Throw.


It’s fine against real players. The only difference is that it might be harder to grab them in the first place, but once you start a chaingrab, you can usually finish it unless you mess up.

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Also, with Marth, is there any other good way to approach then to just SH Fair? It gets quite predictable after a while.


F-air is your best approach technique. Even if it’s predictable, it can help you space yourself. You can vary it up a bit by combining short hops, full hops, and double jumps (or midair jumps from short hops) into it. It’s basically all about spacing. F-air is good because it’s an attack that lets you ward off your enemy while you jump around spacing yourself. Once you get into a good position, play spacing games and pressure your opponent.

You can also try b-air, if you want, but f-air is better in the majority of situations. If you really see an opening, you can just walk up and jab, but I wouldn’t recommend doing this too often, since it’s easier to punish than a well spaced f-air.

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In need of some good Samus strategies; specifically bomb jumping.


I use Samus in Low Tiers tourneys, and I personally never bomb jump, or very rarely, at least. You can use it in a pinch to get out of a tough situation. Spam her Z-air. It has awesome range, is quick, and has decent priority. It's good as a approach, but what I like to do is spam retreating Z-airs against opponents who lack projectiles. Her side-B is decent, but it's not spammable, so don't try. Her blaster can be spammed to an extent, similar to Lucario's Aura Spheres.

Generally, Samus' biggest weaknesses are her limited range and lack of KO power. You're going to have to stick to using relatively fast attacks until really high percents and then find a creative way to KO. Use her jab; it doesn't have too laggy of a startup. Her b-air is also fast and has decent range, so you want to use it often. Her n-air is not quite the same as Fox's n-air, but it's similar, so you can use it every now and then to approach or to juggle.

Samus has trouble attacking opponents directly above her. Her u-tilt is pretty slow, and, despite how it looks, u-air is not very good for vertical KOs - it can't kill until high percents. Her u-smash is decent, but it doesn't launch very far, so meh. When an opponent is falling down, I tend to go to his or her side and try to b-air, or I run away and camp blaster.

D-air spikes are probably going to be your best method of killing. You can also f-smash - f-smash can be angled forward-up, forward-straight, or forward-down, so it can come in handy in various situations. D-tilt can kill, but only at very high percents (125% for the lightest characters on FD or a stage with a high ceiling). Surprisingly, an uncharged d-smash is pretty ineffective. You can try offstage gimping with n-airs and b-airs, but that's about it. Her killing potential is extremely limited.

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Ike


Azen. Azen's Ike is amazingly good. His spacing with Ike is so amazing that he can actually afford to spam f-smash without getting punished.

With Ike, it's all about how you space yourself. Ike's not a monstrously timing-dependent character, which makes him particularly good for Wi-Fi battles. All of Ike's attacks have excellent KO power, range, and priority, so you don't really have to worry about any of that. Your main concern is spacing - if you space correctly, you can overcome, to a certain extent, the huge amount of startup and afterlag on the majority of his attacks.

Jab. Ike's jab is one of his best attacks against fast characters. It's pretty easy to find an opening to do the first two strikes of jab, and it's not that difficult to find an opening to do all three strikes of jab (which is nice since the last hit is quite powerful).

Believe it or not, Ike has pretty good aerials. That doesn't mean you should always prefer the air! with him, but you can play a very good (and safe) aerial Ike in certain situations. Attack with the very tip of his f-air to score damage and get kills. It has good range, so you'll avoid punishment if you attack with the tip of it. B-air is one of Ike's fastest attacks, and it's very good for killing, approaching, and generally adding to your opponent's damage %. It has very little startup lag and afterlag. This is my most-used attack with Ike.

N-air sweeps out a wide arc, so it can be useful when you're trying to be defensive while in the air (such as if you're being juggled). U-air is decent for mixing it up or attacking a falling opponent. D-air is probably the most situational of Ike's aerials. I find myself using f-air offstage for gimping purposes instead, simply because the positioning where f-air is useful occurs more frequently.

U-tilt has combo potential and is quick, so you can use it quite often, especially following an approach (it launches your opponent into the air). D-tilt is an excellent edgeguard; it can kill at almost any percent (at ~10%, it will start spiking if it connects while you're edgeguarding). Don't use it for general purposes, however. F-tilt, I find to be very situational. It's a horizontal attack, so it's unique in that sense, but it also has a bit of lag attached to it, so you don't want to use it unless you're a good distance away from your opponent. It's better than f-smash for general use, however.

Use u-smash - it covers a huge area, so it'll prove useful to you. It's laggy, but in general, it's pretty good. You can even charge it up so your opponent won't know when to expect it. Probably, the best time to use it is when your opponent is coming back to the stage, on a small stage such as Battlefield. Stand under a platform and u-smash.

Avoid f-smash most of the time. If you think you're in a situation where you can f-smash, consider using f-tilt instead. F-smash is very easy to punish unless you have spot-perfect spacing, like Azen. D-smash is good as an interrupt or a punisher for someone who rolls too much, but it doesn't have much use beyond that. It has enough lag that people with better rolls, like Lucario, can shield it and punish you for it, though, so be careful in using it a lot for that purpose.

Move around with side-B. You can charge it, but in general, just use it repeatedly until you get where you want. It has some neat little two-step "combos" (such as side-B to b-air), but be careful about getting punished by certain characters. You can also use it to recover.

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Lucario


There's no tool better than Azen's Lucario videos to improve with Lucario.

Amazing Video of Azen's Lucario

Watch how he constantly keeps Forte's MK in a danger zone. His spacing is also great here; he frequently uses f-smashes without getting punished.

While you're at it, you should also watch this video. It'll not only help you out with Lucario, but it'll also help you out with smash, in general.

With Lucario, you generally have to be a perfect player. He can't kill very easily until he reaches higher percents. so if you mess up and DI badly at a high percent, you have to wait until he gets to a high percent on his next stock to be able to kill. He has some decent combos. Aura Spheres are great to camp, but don't overdo it. His recovery can't damage, so try to get back to the stage as soon as possible (if you wait until you're too far out, your opponent can edgehog you without invincibility frames).

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Meta


I have a Meta Knight guide on All is Brawl; in it I discuss counterpick stages, uses for Tornado, how to deal with projectiles, etc. Everything I could possibly say to you about Meta Knight is in that guide (a link exists on the previous page of this topic, assuming default settings). There is also an in-depth counterpicking guide floating around somewhere on smashboards. It's quite useful.

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Zelda tips?


F-smash, lol. Against characters with a good deal of lag on their moves (like Ike), your f-smash will destroy. U-smash is also ridiculous. F-airs/b-airs are good for killing, but they're very hard to sweetspot, so you have to time them correctly. Camp Din's Fire. It's very difficult to work around for some.

I recommend using Sheik if you're going to use Zelda. Using Sheik in addition gives you massive control over counterpicking - only a few characters, such as Snake, have the advantage against both Sheik and Zelda. You also have the ability to control stages via switching out. Unlike with Pokemon Trainer, Zelda/Sheik can switch during frames of invincibility and fatigue is not involved; thus, the game is pretty lenient on your transformation. You also have complete control over the power decay on your moves. Use Sheik to damage and one of Zelda's ridiculously overpowered moves to kill in general. More specific things that you can do will depend on the character whom you're facing.

Both are very lightweight, so you're going to need to be careful about not taking damage. Sheik can camp needles and Zelda can camp Din's Fire, so camping in general is a good idea with them. Sheik's aerials are good, and she can perform a sliding u-smash and cover huge distance, which is also useful. Her f-air can no longer kill at low percents (as it could in Melee), so you're going to have to rely more on her b-air. Her d-smash is good as an interrupt, and her tilts are pretty good overall (u-tilt is very nice, since it's two hits).
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