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| Omni on why Brawl is not a good competitive game; Attention, all tasteless tetrahedra! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 18 2008, 05:10 PM (1,796 Views) | |
| Inui | Jun 18 2008, 07:41 PM Post #16 |
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Power of Flower
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Neal runs a pretty damn good site. AllIsBrawl, contrary to the name, actually has Melee sections and many Melee tournaments, both past and present, on it. There's a lot of interactive and fun stuff like shoutouts and blogs. Don't insult it when you know nothing but the name and QQ over it because you don't like Brawl...or rather because Brawl killed Melee. http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=13024 |
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| (*Jman*) | Jun 18 2008, 07:44 PM Post #17 |
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Kakatte Koi!
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No, Brawl is not more competitive than SSB64. Good players like Isai and Sensei can beat Ness and Kirby without using them. Sensei offers to do MMs with people using Link where he'll get $25 if he wins and they'll get $100 if they win and to do 2v1s where he gets less money then the two people he has to fight. If you play with characters as low on the tier list as Link was in Smash 64 in Brawl against anyone who is not complete garbage then you will lose.
Brawl = Failure. Replace Brawl with Failure and you get AllIsFailure. I am well aware it has Melee sections, I was just replacing Brawl what a word that has the same meaning to any intelligent competitive smasher. |
![]() ![]() Formerly Omni, Rosa, Terra, Serra, Captain Star Falco, Minamimoto | |
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| Admin | Jun 18 2008, 07:51 PM Post #18 |
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There is a light that never goes out...
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I honestly think people like Isai can beat Ness or Kirby without Ness or Kirby, because Isai is just so much better than nearly everyone else at that game. IMO SSB64 is a garbage game competitively since it is by FAR the least balanced Smash game out. Its about as good of a competitive fighter as Mortal Kombat. |
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| Inui | Jun 18 2008, 07:54 PM Post #19 |
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Power of Flower
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Brawl is less balanced than 64. Link sucks massively and can still death combo Kirby and Pikachu. Link is higher on a Brawl tier list than he is in 64, since he's considered the second worst character in 64, but he can't win against top tiers at all. That's only one example. |
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| Bossadai | Jun 18 2008, 08:46 PM Post #20 |
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New Days
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Yeah, pretty much. I mean, c'mon, "autosweetspotting"? You might as well publish a dictionary of smash terms and tell me to read it. But yeah, just give it more time; you're probably going to get used to the "problems" or something. Hell, you guys will probably will find a way to make all of these issues work to your advantage, if you put your minds to it.
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| Inui | Jun 18 2008, 09:54 PM Post #21 |
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Power of Flower
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No. Nothing can ever make tripping and footstooling not ruin the game competitively. |
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| Slit | Jun 18 2008, 11:35 PM Post #22 |
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Melee is better. Brawl isn't as fleshed out yet as everyone thinks it is though. I know people were bitchin about sheik being the most haxor character early in melee just because she has the shortest learning curve for general use (sounds like metaknight) and that the game was too slow (weren't people fooling around with lightning for a while?) and how they thought they discovered everything because they already knew lcancels and ledgehops from the previous games. Smart people don't rush judgements. |
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[size=20]FEFF's Best PKMN Player[/size] [size=23]FEFF's Best Smasher[/size] [size=23]Lost Temple For Life[/size] | |
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| Inui | Jun 19 2008, 02:55 AM Post #23 |
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Power of Flower
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Nothing will ever change footstooling and tripping. |
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| Neo | Jun 19 2008, 11:35 AM Post #24 |
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Tits and Ass
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Playing Dededee is the greatest example of camping strategy, he has the fastest shield grab in the whole game. You know Fox's speed kicks? He shield grabs that. Falcon's Jabs, those too. The only way to really fight d3 it to outcamp him or to have him mess up. Alot of characters act like this and many can be beaten, it just requires less fun strategy then going in and trying to combo. |
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| Slit | Jun 19 2008, 12:50 PM Post #25 |
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Yeah, but what about the important part of my post with all the content? :rolleyes: Nothing has to change footstooling or tripping, just some player with a camera or a boards account stumples upon a way to abuse them, avoid them, or make them seem irrelevant. I still can't help but notice the similar mindsets of ssb->ssbm players and the ssbm->ssbb players, as I said in my previous post. Remember back to when you knew nothing in melee, I mean how many times did you accidentally air dodge into the ground before and not think jack about it? There's no guarantees of finding anything, but 'trying to find something' doesn't have that much higher a chance of finding something as 'stumbling upon something' simply because no one knows what they're looking for. Ben: Ya, a lot of characters in this game encourage camping. Just do what I do and PLAY MELEE TOO when you want to rub off a waveshine before bed.
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[size=20]FEFF's Best PKMN Player[/size] [size=23]FEFF's Best Smasher[/size] [size=23]Lost Temple For Life[/size] | |
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| (*Jman*) | Jun 19 2008, 01:49 PM Post #26 |
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Kakatte Koi!
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He's the greatest example of an idiotic character. His whole strategy is run at you and shieldgrab, back air, occasionally ftilt and throw waddle dees. That's IT. Yet this simple, idiotic strategy makes him third best in the game.
You CAN'T do anything about footstooling or tripping, you might as well say do something about Snake's fully charged fsmash at 999%. However, let's say just for the sake of argument you COULD do something about tripping. You would have to react to a RANDOM event super fast to not get hit by Snake's fsmash? That's not going to consistently happen ever. You might as well say tech the klaptrap consistently.
This argument is bad. The smash community was a LOT smaller back when there was the transition from SSB --> SSBM then it is now.
I NEVER EVER airdodged onto the ground before learning about wavedashing. Considering how many stupid "advanced tactics" like glide tossing have been discovered, I think we would have found a way to do something as simple as hit your opponent, then hit them again, and then hit them again, and then hit them again. |
![]() ![]() Formerly Omni, Rosa, Terra, Serra, Captain Star Falco, Minamimoto | |
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| Slit | Jun 20 2008, 12:51 AM Post #27 |
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Tripping isn't that fast actually...brawl is really slow, I just immediately roll away or get-up attack when I trip and it seems to be good damage control because though it loses me a combo/approach/mixup/whatever, it is not necessary to also get hit/killed because of it. It's not completely random either, it only happens when you dash and you KNOW when you're dashing. I understand sometimes your buffering away and you trip, but that's when you react during the slooow trip animation. Footstooling isn't difficult to do (hell, it's done by accident most of the time, right?), but neither is avoiding it. If it was that good, why would so many people complain about the difficulties of edgeguarding in this game? Everyone would just be footstooling like its the new ledge roll. The smash community is bigger but it's mostly fluff, a lot of newcomers that probably just learned the other month that tournaments don't use items. I don't think the number of people that are 'really' playing is as different as it seems because of this. I air dodged into the ground when I tried to lcancel sometimes, I would think that would be a common one given how many times people try to lcancel. As to the 'advanced tactics' while there don't seem to be that many ways to combo, there are a lot of ways to be in a position of advantage after a move. That's all I want in brawl really because imagine how gay it would be: the game is so slow that everyone with moderate tech skill would be able to always combo everyone to death, and that would greatly decrease the gap between good players and great players. |
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[size=20]FEFF's Best PKMN Player[/size] [size=23]FEFF's Best Smasher[/size] [size=23]Lost Temple For Life[/size] | |
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| (*Jman*) | Jun 24 2008, 04:29 PM Post #28 |
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Kakatte Koi!
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You don't trip every time you dash though. There is a random chance that you are going to trip every time you're going to dash. There are three parts to tripping. You are invincible for a certain portion of the trip(not very long), you are vulnerable for a certain portion of the trip(fairly long), and then at the end you can do something. That's why a lot of dtilts can combo into themselves again and why bananas can combo into attacks. There are also moves that have ~10% chance to trip in certain percent ranges, see this thread: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=149978 You CAN trip into things like Snake's fsmash and die from it no matter how good your reaction time is. I thought you could get out by rolling or getup attacks until I was hit for the first time. It's like watching a horror movie. All you can do is watch as your character is helpless and gets hit. You can have frame perfect reaction time and you'll still be screwed. As for air tripping, you can just watch yourself fall into oblivion. There is literally nothing you can do about it. It's awful. Fortunately, the only time I air tripped was into the lava on Brinstar in an online items match :).
It's still difficult to edgeguard because of autosweetspotting. You can't just footstool someone's up b. However, you don't need your double jump to footstool someone. In a recent match online with LinkPrime1, I went off the stage to edgeguard him because he was Falco under the stage, he double jumped(he was still under the stage) and then I somehow missed him, got footstooled, and lost a stock. Retarded.
It doesn't matter how slow the game is if the combos took skill. At high level melee you can lose a stock every time you make a mistake. Smarter players punish mistakes more than less intelligent players. I don't like hitting my opponent once and then immediately getting hit because they're at low % or hitting them once at mid-high percent and not be able to follow it up. That's gay. |
![]() ![]() Formerly Omni, Rosa, Terra, Serra, Captain Star Falco, Minamimoto | |
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| Slit | Jun 24 2008, 09:36 PM Post #29 |
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I had previously believed the invulnerability to last until you can input, but I see now that it doesn't. Rolling/getup still helps damage control, but its not the consistent answer I thought it was. So, I concede everything regarding tripping. I still disagree on footstools. In your example, you attempt and fail an edgeguard, and you were punished. I see no problem with that. That's not retarded at all. I know how it works in melee. Better players dish out better punishment, sometimes even a whole stock. I get it. If this could be done in brawl, every local Joe would be able to zero-death any mistake because Brawl is slow. There is no way around that, speed was and is by far the most important safeguard in melee to keep things like zero-death combos in check, by making them difficult. This also made it feel more rewarding to get better at or closer to performing them. If enough hit stun was added to brawl to allow combos, it would be very lame. Lack of combos at mid-high percent is just as much a part of Brawl as combos are to melee. At low percents though, couldn't you be more selective as to which moves you perform so as to not get punished for successfully attacking? Different moves at different percents is definitely a part of smash. |
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[size=20]FEFF's Best PKMN Player[/size] [size=23]FEFF's Best Smasher[/size] [size=23]Lost Temple For Life[/size] | |
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| Phoenix Wright | Jun 25 2008, 09:06 PM Post #30 |
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that moron that forgot this is s11
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Who knows? Maybe Nintendo will release an online downloadable update that fixes footstooling and tripping. ...And maybe pigs will start flying. |
Previously: Ron DeLite, Simon
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9:37 AM Jul 11