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Omni on why Brawl is not a good competitive game; Attention, all tasteless tetrahedra!
Topic Started: Jun 18 2008, 05:10 PM (1,793 Views)
sephiroth667
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Nostalgia

Matt Engarde
Jul 31 2008, 10:23 PM
Punishment Divine
Jul 31 2008, 10:22 PM
I can't find the exact topic on SWF, but it was in CT about two or three weeks ago and a few notable players like Nintendude and Catfight showed up. Others I don't remember.

I play Marth so obviously Falco's CG isn't that big of a deal to me. Im pretty sure GnW doesnt care much either. And about picking a secondary for the CG: most characters totally raped by it would have trouble against him to begin with. It's always good to have a secondary anyways, imo.

Bottom tiers have no chance? This is only more visable than in Melee because there's more characters. The only characters I feel are COMPLETELY unusable are Jiggs, Link, Ganon, and MAYBE Samus and Yoshi although I did see a very good Samus at the CT tournament. Everyone else is entirely usable. Sonic, even, can beat top tiers. It all lies in playskill.

BTW Inui are you going to Regionals in CT? If you are I might see you there.

....what. Guy must really suck then to lose.

Double post for shock.

Everyone thinks Sonic is total trash but there's very good Sonics out there. One guy near me in Nasau County, Wes I think his name is, is amazing with him
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Neo
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I love beating Sonics with Ganon. Sparta kick kills at like 60%.
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Inui
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Punishment Divine
Jul 31 2008, 09:22 PM
I can't find the exact topic on SWF, but it was in CT about two or three weeks ago and a few notable players like Nintendude and Catfight showed up. Others I don't remember.


Bottom tiers have no chance? This is only more visable than in Melee because there's more characters. The only characters I feel are COMPLETELY unusable are Jiggs, Link, Ganon, and MAYBE Samus and Yoshi although I did see a very good Samus at the CT tournament. Everyone else is entirely usable. Sonic, even, can beat top tiers. It all lies in playskill.

BTW Inui are you going to Regionals in CT? If you are I might see you there.

Who the shit is Catfight? I know Nintendude. He's pretty good. I'm better though, lol.

Well, you feel wrong. I don't care enough to explain it. You haven't really experienced high level play enough and attended enough tournaments to see how helpless 50% of the cast is when it comes to fighting good characters. Jigglypuff is viable, btw.

Of course I'm going to ESTICLE. I'm not missing out on circuit points. I'll be teaming with the best ZSS. :)

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Everyone thinks Sonic is total trash but there's very good Sonics out there. One guy near me in Nasau County, Wes I think his name is, is amazing with him


Wes of DA? He's a good Sonic. The best Sonic is probably Mr. 3000 of Texas, though. Blue of NJ is also sick. He beat Lord Knight's Dedede last Saturday 2-0.
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sephiroth667
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Inui
Jul 31 2008, 10:25 PM
Punishment Divine
Jul 31 2008, 09:22 PM
I can't find the exact topic on SWF, but it was in CT about two or three weeks ago and a few notable players like Nintendude and Catfight showed up. Others I don't remember.


Bottom tiers have no chance? This is only more visable than in Melee because there's more characters. The only characters I feel are COMPLETELY unusable are Jiggs, Link, Ganon, and MAYBE Samus and Yoshi although I did see a very good Samus at the CT tournament. Everyone else is entirely usable. Sonic, even, can beat top tiers. It all lies in playskill.

BTW Inui are you going to Regionals in CT? If you are I might see you there.

Who the shit is Catfight? I know Nintendude. He's pretty good. I'm better though, lol.

Well, you feel wrong. I don't care enough to explain it. You haven't really experienced high level play enough and attended enough tournaments to see how helpless 50% of the cast is when it comes to fighting good characters. Jigglypuff is viable, btw.

Of course I'm going to ESTICLE. I'm not missing out on circuit points. I'll be teaming with the best ZSS. :)

Catfight is a very good Snake player up here. I know he's pro, just not much else about him.

50% of the cast I feel is a bad number. Obviously certain characters will have advantages over others. And yeah, as of right now Snake and MK SEEM unbeatable. But after a while when more weaknesses are revealed, and they're there already since I'm not that good and I can beat Snakes, my worst matchup, they will just become another character to choose.

Cool, I may see you there then. You'll get to see my friend Will who I really do swear is ready to go pro with DK, he got top ten at that CT tournament.

And yeah, that may be him.
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(*Jman*)
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Punishment Divine
 
So when will you include the part where Brawl took out most the broken zero to death combos and one hit you're pretty much screwed combos?


99% of combos are escapable with good DI. Not to mention low percent to death combos are hard to do in Melee. I see nothing wrong with being rewarded for practicing the game a lot.

Of course, there are combos in Brawl too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_VeNZj9vfQ

See this? These are retarded autocombos. I'd rather have combos that take skill then have that nonsense.

Punishment Divine
 
Or where they vastly improved the physics system and added a great airdodge system?


LOOOOOOOOL @ "vastly improved" physics system and "great airdodge system." The physics are terrible and so is the airdodging. These are Brawl physics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amq0KhRleDQ&feature=related
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@PD: Having played a decent amount Melee Tournaments, there were alot of characters more viable there than Brawl. Sure, Melee had a ton of Foxs and Falcos. But in Melee Tournaments, you would also see Sheiks, Marths, Peachs, Falcons, Ganons, Climbers, Jiggs, Marios, the occasional Bowsers, Samuses, Docs, or just about any character mid tier or higher. In my state, the top players were a Peach (Mike G) and a Ganon (Chaddd). There was also GAWes (Falcon/Zelda), and Bobby (Falco/Peach/Marth/etc). There were balance issues, yeah. But there was variety there. Well, at least in my area. I hear Flordia was infested by Fox/Falcos, but they still had players like Green Mario, XiF, and Tipman for a bit.

For the top levels in Brawl, its like, all Metaknights and Snakes.

And "broken zero to death combos"? The only infinite thing in Melee was wobbling, I think. Sheik had lots of chain throws, but death wasn't guaranteed. Marth had chain throws as well, and none of them were guaranteed death combos. Hell, the fact that Melee had combos, and was faster, makes it far superior both for spectators, which is essential for an e-sport.
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sephiroth667
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Minamimoto
Jul 31 2008, 10:44 PM
Punishment Divine
 
So when will you include the part where Brawl took out most the broken zero to death combos and one hit you're pretty much screwed combos?


99% of combos are escapable with good DI. Not to mention low percent to death combos are hard to do in Melee. I see nothing wrong with being rewarded for practicing the game a lot.

Of course, there are combos in Brawl too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_VeNZj9vfQ

See this? These are retarded autocombos. I'd rather have combos that take skill then have that nonsense.

Punishment Divine
 
Or where they vastly improved the physics system and added a great airdodge system?


LOOOOOOOOL @ "vastly improved" physics system and "great airdodge system." The physics are terrible and so is the airdodging. These are Brawl physics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amq0KhRleDQ&feature=related

Most of those aren't even combos and the ones that are do take precise button pressing.

And i already said tripping is gay. That has nothing to do with the fact that the physics system is VASTLY improved since Melee. And you only say Airdodging is gay because it keeps you from doing broken as things like nonstop juggling and shit like This

@Sent - I'd say it was infested with Marth, Fox, Falco, Shiek, and Captain Falcon. When did you see a lot of Luigi's running around? People like Gimpyfish were amazing with Bowser, and others could say the same for their 'decent' mains. But really who did you see at big tournaments? Finals - Marth v Falco. Grand Finals - Marth v Fox

You may seem to think that good players only main MK and Snake, but The number of nooby ones far outnumbers the good ones. Bum plays DK, and he often finishes first in NYC weeklies, seen as very difficult to achieve
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(*Jman*)
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Punishment Divine
 
Most of those aren't even combos and the ones that are do take precise button pressing.

None of those require precise button pressing AT ALL and besides the Wario dthrow thing on Bowser they're all inescapable.
Punishment Divine
 
And i already said tripping is gay. That has nothing to do with the fact that the physics system is VASTLY improved since Melee. And you only say Airdodging is gay because it keeps you from doing broken as things like nonstop juggling and shit like This

Tripping is part of the physics. Footstooling is part of the physics. Most of the stuff in Swords of Fate aren't even real combos.

0:37- 0:41: Both uptilts were DIed incorrectly, nair was DIed incorrectly, side B doesn't combo into anything, you can roll away after the dtilt or sidestep the fairs could have been DIed away to prevent the spike.

0:43-0:45: Both fairs were DIed badly. He could have DIed away and escaped.

0:50-0:52: Fair to upair combos but if he held away after that he would not have gotten fair to daired.

0:58-1:02: He was at 0 when the combo started so he wasn't stunned long enough by the first attack for the second attack to hit him. But even if he didn't react fast enough to get out after the first hit he could have DIed the last fair away to escape the spike.

1:03-1:08: The first 3 hits combo. The fair after the second uptilt wasn't a combo, the Ganon tried to shieldgrab. The fair AFTER that fair didn't combo either, he put his shield up then I'm going to guess he tried to shieldgrab because he got hit again. The last fair does combo to fsmash.

1:11-1:16: He could have jumped after the first uptilt. Both the nair and fair could have been DIed away. The bair to fsmash clearly doesn't combo, he just tried to get out by fairing instead of DIing away.

1:22-1:25: Both fairs were DIed up instead of away, which would have gotten the Fox out of the combo.

1:27-1:31: The uptilt should have been DIed behind Marth instead of how it was. The fair to dair also doesn't combo, he could have DIed the fair away.

1:38-1:41: The Marth that got hit did side B after the bair and then just fell into a tipper fsmash. He could have easily gotten away if he had just wiggled out after the bair and landed.

1:46-1:57: The Fox could have double jump side b sweetspotted after the second fair. Instead the Fox did an up b, went onto the stage and got dtilted and then invincible ledgehop spiked.

1:59-2:01: Second fair could have been DIed away.

2:15-2:17: Uptilt should have been DIed behind Marth and fair should have been DIed away.

2:19-2:21 - Both fairs could have been DIed away.

2:25-2:27 - He jumped into the tipper fsmash instead of sweetspotting the ledge with his double jump.

2:29-2:31 - Fair could have been DIed away.

2:31-2:33 - If the Sheik had techrolled away instead of in place Marth wouldn't have been able to hit her.

2:41-2:43 - Second fair could have been DIed away,

2:44-2:53 - Uptilt should have been DIed fully behind Marth and the Fox missed the tech after the second fair.

2:54-2:57: Fthrow fsmash doesn't combo in a Marth ditto. DIing the fthrow away prevents that. The up b also obviously is not a combo and the Marth just jumped and did nothing so they got hit by it.

3:00-3:08: Once again, DIing the fthrow away would have prevented the fsmash. The ftilt looks like it could have been escaped because Marth was standing up, which indicates he was out of his landing lag. The last fsmash could have been teched.

3:09-3:13: He jumped into the bair instead of airdodging. He tried to fair after getting baired and got faired. The last fair could have been DIed away to escape.

3:16-3:20: Side b doesn't combo into anything. The Sheik missed the tech after the uptilt. The 2nd and 3rd fair could have been DIed away.

3:24-3:27: Fthrow fair doesn't combo in a Marth ditto. DIing the fthrow away prevents that. The last fair could have been DIed away.

3:30-3:32: Eeew, upthrow jab regrab is not a combo at all.

3:33-3:37: Initial fair should have been DIed away and both uptilts should have been DIed behind Marth.

3:38-3:43: The Sheik tried to fair after the nair instead of just DIing away and double jumping.

3:45-3:47: Not a combo, just an edgeguard.

3:52-3:55: Fthrow should have been DIed away.

3:56-4:03: Marth's dtilt doesn't hit Marth sweetspotting perfectly.

4:13-4:14: It looks like this actually combos but I'm not entirely certain.

4:15-4:16: The Marth missed the tech and could have DIed both fairs away.

4:29-4:31: Nair could have been DIed away and the Fox missed the tech on the dash attack.

4:34-4:38: Every fair could have been DIed away.

4:45-4:50: The Peach tried to nair out instead of DI away and double jump or airdodge. The last fair could have been DIed away.

4:53-4:56: The Marth could have faired after the bair to escape the spike.

5:01-5:09: If the Marth jumped he could have gotten out of upthrow fair. Once again, Marth's dtilt doesn't hit perfect sweetspot with Marth.

5:17-5:19: Fairs could have been DIed away.

5:25-5:28: Bair and fair could have been DIed away.

That wasn't a combo video, that was a terrible DI by people getting hit video.
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Inui
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Punishment Divine
Jul 31 2008, 09:32 PM
Catfight is a very good Snake player up here. I know he's pro, just not much else about him.

50% of the cast I feel is a bad number. Obviously certain characters will have advantages over others. And yeah, as of right now Snake and MK SEEM unbeatable. But after a while when more weaknesses are revealed, and they're there already since I'm not that good and I can beat Snakes, my worst matchup, they will just become another character to choose.

Cool, I may see you there then. You'll get to see my friend Will who I really do swear is ready to go pro with DK, he got top ten at that CT tournament.

He's a pro and I don't know who the hell he is? Wtf?

Snake isn't unbeatable at all. He has bad matches. Meta doesn't.

Only top 10 in CT without top pros from other areas there would depress me immensely.
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Yeah, most combo videos just show a player simply owning another, because they are better, not because they did an in-excapable combo. If there wasn't anything the other player could do about it, whats the point of making a combo video out of it? Its like making a combo video of Sheik chain grabbing Yoshi, or Ice Climbers wobbling someone. lol who cares?
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Inui
Aug 1 2008, 10:25 AM
Jigglypuff is viable, btw.

Eh why? MK owns Jiggs, Snake owns Jiggs, Falco owns Jiggs (dthrow -> DAC), Marth owns Jiggs, Zelda owns Jiggs.

Or maybe there's something I'm missing...

And about combo videos, most of those are just to show the players taking advantage of opponent's mistakes (incl DI mistakes). I mean if players played perfectly your comboes would all end in a few hits (and if not, wouldn't look cool enough for combo vids, lol)
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Neo
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Jiggs is Wario without the Bite.
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Matt Engarde
Aug 1 2008, 03:30 PM
Jiggs is Wario without the Bite.

uh, and without fart spikes, the bike, and the 9,000 pounds of extra weigh. I guess she has Rest, though.
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Neo
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Dair to rest is amazing.
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Matt Engarde
Aug 1 2008, 02:16 AM
You know what, after playing M2k in a couple of friendlies in brawl I have to say the game is....eh. Like he's amazing, but if all mks played like that, there wouldn't be much of a contest.




Uh? If all MKs played like the best MK in the U.S.A., and possibly the world, there wouldn't be much of a contest? Well, duh.

I understand what you mean, but it just sounds lol.
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