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Shooters v. Fighters
Topic Started: Aug 11 2008, 06:03 PM (481 Views)
Kovu
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Zidane was always entitled to 12 MOV!

I hate them both and can confidently say that I hate shooters more because I suck at them more. :)

In terms of difficulty I find shooters moderately more difficult than fighters.

(well, there are other reasons, but they're beside the point.)

~ Kovu
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Formerly known as: Zidane, Miroku, Kovutachi, Artemis, Phantom Judge.
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Inui
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Power of Flower

Sentenal
Aug 13 2008, 11:29 PM
Games like CS are also bigger than 2v2. Getting a group of 5 (?) people to work together in harmony is harder than 2 people. Plus you really aren't considering aimming and dealing with recoil in FPS. I think Fighters probably are harder, but I wouldn't say its a set in stone fact.

I'd honestly say it depends on the fighter.

Mastering Guilty Gear or Melee is harder than mastering a good shooter.

Mastering an old Street Fighter or CVS2 is much easier than a shooter.
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cool story bro


Inui
Aug 14 2008, 12:26 AM
Manfred Von Karma
Aug 13 2008, 04:50 PM
It's arguable which is more difficult to be successful at: fighters or shooters.

Fighters require you to be very intimately familiar with all the characters in the game, to know their strengths and weaknesses, and to be able to adapt your style of play to suit the strengths and weaknesses you might encounter.

Shooters require you to be more coordinated as an individual and as a team. You have to be intimately familiar with weapons, maps, and the spawn points of said weapons on those maps. You must have good communication skills, a good mind for strategy, and excellent reflexes and aim.

Both require different sets of skills. So you can't really say which is > than the other.

I don't think it's arguable. Fighters have more depth to them (except Brawl) because of the physics and characters.

Fighters also require more technical skill, knowledge of stuff like frames, combos, etc. Shooters are just plain more simple. Everything beyond weapon and map knowledge is just reaction time and reflexes. Teams play adds communication and teamwork in general, which a game like Melee also have due to teams.

Fighters: Depth, combos, knowledge of technical stuff
Shooters: Knowledge of maps and weapons, reflexes

Hmm.

wtf

Depth? Knowledge of technical stuff? Do you not think that shooters have these things? Depth isn't even a "thing" that you master, it's just a term to describe how much there is to the game. Shooters have physics that need to be mastered as well. Also, yes, Melee has 2v2, but most fighters don't while most shooters will be 4v4 or even more. The more players you add to a team, it becomes increasingly harder to play.
A NEW WORLD ORDER
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AdamNW
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Needs moar Sety

Inui
Aug 13 2008, 08:26 PM
Manfred Von Karma
Aug 13 2008, 04:50 PM
It's arguable which is more difficult to be successful at: fighters or shooters.

Fighters require you to be very intimately familiar with all the characters in the game, to know their strengths and weaknesses, and to be able to adapt your style of play to suit the strengths and weaknesses you might encounter.

Shooters require you to be more coordinated as an individual and as a team. You have to be intimately familiar with weapons, maps, and the spawn points of said weapons on those maps. You must have good communication skills, a good mind for strategy, and excellent reflexes and aim.

Both require different sets of skills. So you can't really say which is > than the other.

I don't think it's arguable. Fighters have more depth to them (except Brawl) because of the physics and characters.

Fighters also require more technical skill, knowledge of stuff like frames, combos, etc. Shooters are just plain more simple. Everything beyond weapon and map knowledge is just reaction time and reflexes. Teams play adds communication and teamwork in general, which a game like Melee also have due to teams.

Fighters: Depth, combos, knowledge of technical stuff
Shooters: Knowledge of maps and weapons, reflexes

Hmm.

You're an idiot. If you're cross hairs are even a millimeter off you're dead. I don't even PLAY MLG and this is common knowledge. What good are reflexes when (especially in the CoD4 level Bloc) you're getting sniped to literal death? You won't get saved from that. NOTHING can save you from that.
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Askio
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Tira
Aug 14 2008, 07:15 PM
Inui
Aug 13 2008, 08:26 PM
Manfred Von Karma
Aug 13 2008, 04:50 PM
It's arguable which is more difficult to be successful at: fighters or shooters.

Fighters require you to be very intimately familiar with all the characters in the game, to know their strengths and weaknesses, and to be able to adapt your style of play to suit the strengths and weaknesses you might encounter.

Shooters require you to be more coordinated as an individual and as a team. You have to be intimately familiar with weapons, maps, and the spawn points of said weapons on those maps. You must have good communication skills, a good mind for strategy, and excellent reflexes and aim.

Both require different sets of skills. So you can't really say which is > than the other.

I don't think it's arguable. Fighters have more depth to them (except Brawl) because of the physics and characters.

Fighters also require more technical skill, knowledge of stuff like frames, combos, etc. Shooters are just plain more simple. Everything beyond weapon and map knowledge is just reaction time and reflexes. Teams play adds communication and teamwork in general, which a game like Melee also have due to teams.

Fighters: Depth, combos, knowledge of technical stuff
Shooters: Knowledge of maps and weapons, reflexes

Hmm.

You're an idiot. If you're cross hairs are even a millimeter off you're dead. I don't even PLAY MLG and this is common knowledge. What good are reflexes when (especially in the CoD4 level Bloc) you're getting sniped to literal death? You won't get saved from that. NOTHING can save you from that.

unless you pull a trick I use and toss a flash bang in their face, then run like hell. I think this needs to be in a new thread. In here lets just say both have their different forms of difficulty. It varies from person to person anyways on what is harder or easier.
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Inui
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Power of Flower

Wow, aiming and reacting =/= technical skill.

In a lot of fighters you have to push a button 12 times in a single second or you have to push an elaborate series of buttons extremely quickly. In Melee, you even have to follow DI while doing this. You're acting within a couple frames very often and have to deal with a constant barrage of moves that are merely a few frames.

The depth in a fighter exceeds that of a shooter because of combos, more defensive options, and more offensive options.
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Linoud
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Knight of Seven

Inui
Aug 15 2008, 09:35 PM
Wow, aiming and reacting =/= technical skill.

In a lot of fighters you have to push a button 12 times in a single second or you have to push an elaborate series of buttons extremely quickly.  In Melee, you even have to follow DI while doing this.  You're acting within a couple frames very often and have to deal with a constant barrage of moves that are merely a few frames.

The depth in a fighter exceeds that of a shooter because of combos, more defensive options, and more offensive options.

Except in a fighter, your more likely to be defeated by a button basher just getting lucky. Seriously Lucas. Shooters take more skill. CS for example.

So your saying Reactions isn't equal to technical skill when even in a fighter, you have to react to your opponents moves? Makes a ton of sense.
In fighters, you can be beaten randomly by a button basher pulling off combos without having a clue what they're doing, Lucas. In a shooter, a skilled person who can strafe, dodge, memorize weapon/equipment pickups, weapon respawn times, and the more skilled person in aiming isn't as likely to loose to a guy getting lucky shots as a guy getting lucky combos with button bashing.

Shooters require more skill than fighters. I'm not saying fighters don't take skill, I'm quite sure they take a good bit of skill, but shooters take alot more. There is FAR more teamwork involved in shooters than in fighting games. You need to have much faster reflexes and actually be good at aiming in a shooter, whereas in a fighter, you just need to memorize combos and reactions. By Tech skill, I assume you mean memorizing combos, characters movesets, dmg % from each attack and such?

You have combos, dmg %, memorizing camping spots and how to take campers out, weapon respawns, and in Halo's case: Camo/Overshield respawns, along with grenade locations. You also have to work together as a team in 2v2 and 4v4 much more than you would have to in a 2 v 2 in a fighter. An example would be Double BRing enemies in Halo, or just CTF or Bomb games. Heck, in CS even. In a shooter, you need to communicate far more than in a fighter, because in a fighter, you can always see the screen and your enemy. In a shooter, you need to relay enemy positions, weapons they carry, and various other things, to your team, and fast. And as for your defensive/offensive arguement? What the hell. In a shooter you need to know whether to retreat or attack to put your opponent off. You need to pick your battles far more than in a fighter. You can be more defensive by providing cover fire for a teammate, or offensive by putting an opponent off getting a sniper/rocket while your teammate goes to get the weapons instead or finish him if your Double BRing him.

Teamwork, Reactions, Aiming, Weapon Combos (Grenade and BR to head) Dmg % from each type of weapon (BR burst fire for example), being able to take out campers, memorizing item/weapon respawns and Communication takes more skill than a fighter.
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Tiaro
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BOOM! Headshot. :3

Fighters and shooters play differently, and therefore CAN'T really be compared with the same things. >_>
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cool story bro


Linoud, I agree with your whole post except for the button mashing part. A competitive fighting player will not lose to a button masher, it simply doesn't happen.
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Hakado
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The Card Master

They indeed require rather different skills.
Both are hard to master, why does it even MATTER which is harder?
Previously known as: Serra, Hakato, Hakado, Dorgie Poo, Pearl Fey, Kallen and Sailor Moon

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Jordan says:
NO. I'M A WOMAN. I'M NEVER SATISFIED

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cool story bro


Pearl Fey
Aug 15 2008, 05:01 PM
They indeed require rather different skills.
Both are hard to master, why does it even MATTER which is harder?

It doesn't... D:
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Askio
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Phoenix Wright
Aug 15 2008, 09:01 PM
Linoud, I agree with your whole post except for the button mashing part. A competitive fighting player will not lose to a button masher, it simply doesn't happen.

I lost to a button masher who was using kilik and smashing my characters crouch before I could get up :(

It can happen, but more likely is someone using a cheap move rather than a button masher. You are more likely going to lose to noobs like that. (no offense to anyone that uses kilik right)
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Linoud
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Knight of Seven

Phoenix Wright
Aug 15 2008, 10:01 PM
Linoud, I agree with your whole post except for the button mashing part. A competitive fighting player will not lose to a button masher, it simply doesn't happen.

I'll conceed that part then, but I'm glad people agree with my post about it in general. It can happen with broken moves though.

It doesn't matter, but Inui just brought it up and I disagree with his opinion on the matter. That's all, I'll stop here with my opinion though.
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Inui
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Power of Flower

Quote:
 
Except in a fighter, your more likely to be defeated by a button basher just getting lucky.


Damn, you just negated everything else you wrote after this incredibly wrong statement. Such a shame. Well, everything after it was just bias towards the genre you prefer anyways.

Quote:
 
By Tech skill, I assume you mean memorizing combos, characters movesets, dmg % from each attack and such?


No.

I mean pushing a button twelve times in one second.

I mean performing 2H, 5K, JK, J2K, JK, J2K, JK, J2K, JD, J2K with Slayer extremely fast (the JD --> J2K has to be done so fast that it's considered basically not possible on a controller) and then continuing the combo with 2S from the ground and acting within basically a frame to get the relaunch.

I mean comboing with Falco and following your opponent's DI and reacting within a few frames to continue a combo that involves constant use of a 1 frame move.

Fighters take immensely more technical skill, and the speed and precision which you have to push the buttons adds a level of difficulty that doesn't even exist in shooters.

Quote:
 
Teamwork, Reactions, Aiming, Weapon Combos (Grenade and BR to head) Dmg % from each type of weapon (BR burst fire for example), being able to take out campers, memorizing item/weapon respawns and Communication takes more skill than a fighter.


Reflexes and reactions exist in both genres to a large degree, so that's not exactly a point for shooters.

Shooters take more teamwork because most fighters don't even have teamwork.

Item/weapon points and spawn points are far, far easier to memorize than the extremely vast amount of numbers involved with combos, damage, frames (which includes start-up frames, active frames, recovery frames, advantage on block, advantage on hit, disadvantage on block, disadvantage on hit, and jump frames) and hitboxes.
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Hakado
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The Card Master

Here's a thought:
Just accept both are genres that are hard to master and stop THE POINTLESS TOPIC-DERAILING DISCUSSION
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Jordan says:
NO. I'M A WOMAN. I'M NEVER SATISFIED

Weird as fuck, isnt he?
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