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Final Fantasy...Tier List?; lolz
Topic Started: Aug 18 2008, 01:18 PM (1,516 Views)
Kovu
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Zidane was always entitled to 12 MOV!

Kristoph Gavin
Aug 19 2008, 11:12 AM
No one's answering my question about FFT. I guess I'm right, then. :NomNomNom:

FFT's story is only the best in the entire fucking series. Since I haven't played FFTA 2 I can't really compare.

~ Kovu
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-HJ-
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I've failed to come up with something witty, so I hope you will enjoy this filler text instead.

FFX's is way better. :)

Also, that wasn't my main question. >_>
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Kovu
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Zidane was always entitled to 12 MOV!

Kristoph Gavin
Aug 19 2008, 11:16 AM
FFX's is way better.  :)

X, of all games?
You've got to be-- well, ok. I'll admit FFX's story isn't that bad. Though there are other aspects of the game which are completely terrible.
If you want to brag about FFX, brag about that game's music. That aspect of the game was really great.

As for the battle mechanics in FF Tactics (assuming that's what you refer to) they're certainly slower than real-time RPGs and even turn-based (like atb and shit) RPGs but they're above par for any given Tactical RPG (like, say, Fire Emblem which has battle scenes and far more units in any given battle).

~ Kovu
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I've failed to come up with something witty, so I hope you will enjoy this filler text instead.

What aspects of the game are completely terrible?

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LadyArienne
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JUNPEI++

Kristoph Gavin
Aug 19 2008, 06:49 PM
Wait, the PAL version is worse? How so? It has a lot of cool extra stuff that the other versions don't have.

Also, all the characters are highly useable, I have no idea what you're saying.

I mean in terms of personality, story, design etc. with Auron. He is the only interesting character. The others are either exceptionally annoying (see: Tidus and Yuna) or have pathetic amounts of plot and character development.

Sure, they added extras in FFX EU. These however were totally unwanted for anyone who just wanted to play the game through to the end. They made the mini games much harder than the JP and US versions and they added Dark Aeons in every important area after a certain point in the game so if you miss say, the sun sigil? You have to fight Dark Bahamut. Just so you know, the only way to beat 90% of the Dark Aeons is to rely on luck and use Yojimbo. If you've missed a few items or want to collect all of the Jecht Spheres, say hello to hours of resetting the game. Even someone I knew who had no life and replaced the sphere grid and capped practically all of his stats - had a Yuna who could one/two-shot kill the final boss with her staff - had to use Yojimbo.

Also, it was the PAL version. SquareEnix has long been notorious for their terrible PAL conversions and FFX is no exception - the picture is very squished and the game (movement, music, voices etc) has been slowed down. If you've played both the EU and US versions you'd notice the difference immediately.
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Kovu
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Zidane was always entitled to 12 MOV!

Kristoph Gavin
Aug 19 2008, 11:29 AM
What aspects of the game are completely terrible?

The characters. Minus one or two.
In battle gameplay, a big step down from the previous SIX Final Fantasy's.
Though I liked the sphere grid the fact that EVERYONE could potentially (and with enough grind) do ANYTHING was also a downer. XII also suffered from this problem.
Balance. Why the fuck would any nonfur ever use Kimhari?
Voice acting & lip sync. I realize it's the first attempt at this, and I don't fault 'em for it, but that doesn't make it not suck (in some places more than others).
The main character.
The gay villain (antihero? I don't even know what Seymour qualifies as. His only redeaming feature is his kickass battle theme.)
No world map.
Limited chocobo availablity.

I could go on.

Really, while I feel they did add a lot to this game that previous FFs didn't have I also feel as if they took a lot away.

~ Kovu

Edited:
@ LA: How do Dark Aeons work? Some of them seemed pretty dark to begin with.
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I've failed to come up with something witty, so I hope you will enjoy this filler text instead.

Lol, I liked Tidus. He's the most realistic character I've seen in an FF game, in terms of personality. Finally a hero who cares more about saving himself than saving the world (that changes later on, through CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT, though).

Besides, anybody would have complained over the stuff that happened to him. Characters with imperfect personalities are interesting, not annoying, although I guess that's a matter of opinion. Some people like the whole ''must defeat evil and save the world'' bland type of personality.

Dark Bahamut, Anima and Magus Sisters were the only ones I absolutely had to use Yojimbo on... Penace was easily defeated with a healthy dose of Attack Reels and other stuff.

I didn't know that about the PAL release, though... That's a shame, although you get used to getting shafted with games when you're European.

@Kovu: lolno to all of that, except the lip sync and some of the VA.



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Kovu
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Zidane was always entitled to 12 MOV!

You're kidding, right? The name, alone is enough to annoy me.

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Finally a hero who cares more about saving himself than saving the world.
Not every Final Fantasy game revolves around saving the world the entire way through. Heck, some of them don't involve saving the world at all. So this comparison is flawed in that there's only a limited group of games to compare it to.

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Besides, anybody would have complained over the stuff that happened to him.
Though it's true that most games seem to under-rate the severity of emotional impact based on events that take place in the story, you've also got to accept the fantisy-reality restrictions on the character's understanding. In most games the characters are severely limited in what they can understand due to the environment they live in, some games, like Xenosaga the characters have a [albiet fake] superior grasp on reality. Xenosaga's a fine example of that.
It all about balanced. And Tidus whines too much. ><
The fucker almost whines as much as Noishe.

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Characters with imperfect personalities are interesting, not annoying, although I guess that's a matter of opinion
You're calling Firion, Bartz, Zidane, and especially Vaan, Terra, Cloud and CECIL (fuck, THIS guy wins the FF character development award) perfect in personality?

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Some people like the whole ''must defeat evil and save the world'' bland type of personality.
It's not bad, though it is overdone.

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@Kovu: lolno to all of that
Erm. Yeah. Reality check. I didn't even mention Yojimbo, though I could've.

~ Kovu
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Linoud
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Knight of Seven

I'll save you HJ. I think some people hate Tidus for his whining, and others just because he's a sporty jock esque main character. :NomNomNom:

Guys. I like FF7. I found Cloud to be quite lulzy in some of his wordings and being pwned by Cid. He had some of Zacks degree of badassery every once in awhile but, they were rare momens indeed and they made him even more feminine and emo in AC. Red XII was pretty cool. Cait Sith sucked. Yuffie I never used much, found her sidequest in Wutai annoying. Tifa was B|. Aeris was your stereotypical cute damsel in distress. Barret was, and probably always will be, the most racist thing in an FF game that made me lulz. Vincent was your vampireesque type of guy who some people like just for him being an enigma or having the ability to transform into demons.

Sephiroth was your insane, pretty boy super soldier that wanted to get revenge. He has nothing on Kefka's insanity for sure.

Notable people in FF7 or it's compiliation.

Cid Highwind - Easily one of, if not the best Cid in FF history.

Zack Fair - Perhaps one of the only main FF characters created by Nomura who wasn't a fucking emo. Potentially one of the best FF characters in the series. Definitely has my vote for best FF7 Character.
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Kovu
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Zidane was always entitled to 12 MOV!

Miles Edgeworth
Aug 19 2008, 11:58 AM
Cid Highwind - Easily one of, if not the best Cid in FF history.

^ This.

And yeah, Zack is probably one of my favourite aspects of FFVII. ^_^

~ Kovu
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LadyArienne
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Kristoph Gavin
Aug 19 2008, 07:44 PM
Lol, I liked Tidus. He's the most realistic character I've seen in an FF game, in terms of personality. Finally a hero who cares more about saving himself than saving the world (that changes later on, through CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT, though).

That's funny - I remember him consistently throughout the first two-thirds of the game saying again and again that they had to keep going on their journey in order to save the world from Sin. Then he found out about what would happen to Yuna and got a bit depressed and almost gave up (character development?). And then he decides that he shall forge ahead regardless and save both the world and his girlfriend and without any specific plan, manages to complete said goals with a few hitches here and there.

I don't remember him ditching the party and hiding out somewhere getting drunk like a realistic character would do. :NomNomNom:

As for the Dark Aeons, as I said, if you are playing the game in a more casual style they will pop out and rape you through the knickers every time. This is especially so in my case as at the time there were only American guides available on how to get things like Jecht Spheres/ultimate weapons and so on. So I'd walk into Besaid and get rocked because I hadn't specifically crafted a first-strike weapon because I didn't know the Dark Aeons even existed and no guide online at the time mentioned them. For me, who did not level through the roof and did not wish to grind for the pieces to create a godlike first-strike weapon, they were an annoyance that shouldn't have been there for first-time players (because frankly, I couldn't be bothered with them and they were totally pointless).
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Kovu
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Zidane was always entitled to 12 MOV!

LadyArienne
Aug 19 2008, 12:08 PM
I don't remember him ditching the party and hiding out somewhere getting drunk like a realistic character would do. :NomNomNom:

You're just saying that because your favourite FF character (I think?) did ditch the party and went off and got drunk.. on lifestream.
I mean that was pretty good. It showed the game from his drunk perspective. Tifa was there. Sephiroth was there. And everything was green and blue. ^^;

~ Kovu
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I've failed to come up with something witty, so I hope you will enjoy this filler text instead.

Quote:
 
Not every Final Fantasy game revolves around saving the world the entire way through. Heck, some of them don't involve saving the world at all. So this comparison is flawed in that there's only a limited group of games to compare it to.


Like I said, I've only played IV, X, X2 and the FFTA games. Maybe some of them don't revolve around saving the world, but so what? The point is that Tidus is very selfish and egotistical at first, which I've very rarely seen a protagonist be. Of course, that changes through character development, as it should. He starts out imperfect and gets better throughout the game. That's how it's supposed to be.

Quote:
 
Though it's true that most games seem to under-rate the severity of emotional impact based on events that take place in the story, you've also got to accept the fantisy-reality restrictions on the character's understanding. In most games the characters are severely limited in what they can understand due to the environment they live in, some games, like Xenosaga the characters have a [albiet fake] superior grasp on reality. Xenosaga's a fine example of that.
It all about balanced. And Tidus whines too much. ><
The fucking almost whines as much as Noishe.


I don't think he whines too much. Anyone from FEFF would whine at least as much, I'd wager. Probably more.

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You're calling Firion, Bartz, Zidane, and especially Vaan, Terra, Cloud and CECIL (fuck, THIS guy wins the FF character development award) perfect in personality?


Cecil's a pretty bland goody-goody. He does some bad things at first because his ''king'' commands it, but other than that I don't see anything special about him. Oh wait, he dislikes Golbez during most of the game. Wow, how refreshing, the hero disliking the villain! How new. How original! Who are those other people, btw? :NomNomNom:

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It's not bad, though it is overdone.


Uh, yes. It's very bad. Horrible, even. I think ''You're kidding, right?'' is my line.

Quote:
 
Erm. Yeah. Reality check. I didn't even mention Yojimbo, though I could've.


''The characters. Minus one or two.''

Are fine, I agree. Yuna is the only downright bad character.

''In battle gameplay, a big step down from the previous SIX Final Fantasy's.''

Some people don't like ATB. Of course, I don't know if such a controversial and EVIL thought ever crossed your mind, but it crossed mine. I like the battle systems equally.

''Though I liked the sphere grid the fact that EVERYONE could potentially (and with enough grind) do ANYTHING was also a downer. XII also suffered from this problem.''

Oh yeah, customization. FFT's biggest strength. So why exactly are you hating on it now? Perhaps being able to do various things with your characters is too difficult? Well, not all people are incapable of using and appreciating customization. Just because you're incapable of making decisions yourself, thus relying on the game to decide what kind of fighting style the characters should use, doesn't mean we all are. Actually, wait, that's wrong. During a large part of the game, the characters' roles are set in stone. Auron is the heavy hitter, Tidus is the speedy time mage dude, and so on. Hey, there's both customization and limitation. Brilliant.

''Balance. Why the fuck would any nonfur ever use Kimhari?''

Kimahri's a wild card. He can be what you want him to be, pretty much. So I can see why you don't like him.

''Voice acting & lip sync. I realize it's the first attempt at this, and I don't fault 'em for it, but that doesn't make it not suck (in some places more than others).''

Point.

''The main character.''

Nah.

''The gay villain (antihero? I don't even know what Seymour qualifies as. His only redeaming feature is his kickass battle theme.)''

Seymour wasn't too bad. I found his backstory and how he eventually gained a Messiah complex/Messianic complex pretty interesting.

''No world map.''

Actually travelling through the world like you do in FFX makes the journey feel much more ''real,'' which is a good thing. Besides, if you wanna get nitpicky, the airship worldmap is there.

''Limited chocobo availablity.''

You get Tidus' sigil by riding chocobos. That's plenty...

EDIT:

I am, by the way, done debating this. You won't change my opinion, and I won't change yours. You think my opinion is ridiculous, I think yours is too. It'll keep being like that, no need to waste time trying to fight it.
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Kovu
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Zidane was always entitled to 12 MOV!

Quote:
 
The point is that Tidus is very selfish and egotistical at first, which I've very rarely seen a protagonist be.
Play moar FF. *hands you VIII*
*hands you XII*

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Of course, that changes through character development, as it should. He starts out imperfect and gets better throughout the game. That's how it's supposed to be.
I know someone who did it wayy better. ^_^;
*hands you TotA*

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I don't think he whines too much. Anyone from FEFF would whine at least as much, I'd wager. Probably more.
ANYONE who whines more than me whines too much. I've only whined more than him because I've had more lines of text. My whine to not-whine ratio is moderately high but Tidus's is pretty close to overdrive.

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Cecil's a pretty bland goody-goody. He does some bad things at first because his ''king'' commands it, but other than that I don't see anything special about him. Oh wait, he dislikes Golbez during most of the game. Wow, how refreshing, the hero disliking the villain! How new. How original! Who are those other people, btw? 
Erm. He didn't just realize "oshit wut im doin iz rong!"
There was an entire part of the game dedicated to his leaving his dark shell and even after that there was more to him than "MUST SAVE WORLD".
Heck, if it wasn't for Golbez (trying to prevent spoilers here) he may not even have went to deal with final boss.

Cecil's not my favourite character in the world, but he's good at what he does.

Firion: FFII
Bartz: FFV
Terra: FFVI
Squall: FFVII
Vaan: FFXII
Cloud: FFVII

All main characters with stories of their own. All original, all more than "MUST SAVE WORLD AND KILL FINAL BOSS".
.. except maybe Bartz.

I won't continue to attack FFX as a game, as it seems you have no interest in continuing this, however I easily could.
It's still my 7th (ish) favourite in the series which is certainly above par.

~ Kovu

Edited:
And after I went and typed a whole bunch of crap up, too. >>

Edited2:
Fine. Damned hypocrit.

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Are fine, I agree.
You obviously missed what I said.

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Some people don't like ATB. Of course, I don't know if such a controversial and EVIL thought ever crossed your mind, but it crossed mine. I like the battle systems equally.
I've played FF's I, II and III, as well as Goldensun, and I liked all their battle systems (which are similar to X's) more than X's. Someone once called the mechanics to FFX quick paced. No, actually, in fact FFX is closer to a tactical RPG than any other FF because you don't have to worry about being quick to act. Not a bad thing, but certainly a step down from IV through IX.

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Oh yeah, customization. FFT's biggest strength. So why exactly are you hating on it now?
Yes, becaues EVERY character in Tactics and use EVERY skill in EVERY battle.
While the characters in FFX can eventually do so (or even using 1/3rd of the board which is about 6x any given character in Tactics) the characters in Tactics are restricted to two class ability lists, and thee extra abilities.

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Kimahri's a wild card. He can be what you want him to be, pretty much. So I can see why you don't like him.
He's also inferior to whomever he tries to emulate, and can only follow after one person.
Well, until later when you can simply grind him to use everything like everyone else. Talk about a switchup.

I'm not going to pursue Seymour. Though I don't hate the guy he's definently a lesser FF villain(ish).

Quote:
 
Actually travelling through the world like you do in FFX makes the journey feel much more ''real,'' which is a good thing. Besides, if you wanna get nitpicky, the airship worldmap is there.
On the contrary, it made it feel less real and severely restricted. A flaw that XII also has (admittedly worse in XII). FFs with world maps give you the feeling of having the ability to explore every inch of the world-- an RPG trademark.

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You get Tidus' sigil by riding chocobos. That's plenty...

*hands you FFVII, or IX*
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LadyArienne
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Kovu
Aug 19 2008, 08:12 PM
LadyArienne
Aug 19 2008, 12:08 PM
I don't remember him ditching the party and hiding out somewhere getting drunk like a realistic character would do. :NomNomNom:

You're just saying that because your favourite FF character (I think?) did ditch the party and went off and got drunk.. on lifestream.

~ Kovu

Nnno, I was more referring to a more realisticly characterised RPG character. Cloud is hilarious sometimes but no. If we must stick to strictly Japanese RPGs then how about Arc from Terranigma? He gets caught beneath an avalanche and instead of trying to solve his problems, he just sits there and sulks until it solves itself. :NomNomNom:
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