Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]


Welcome to Fusion. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!

If you are registering with a Yahoo e-mail address, or if you are having trouble receiving your validation e-mail, please refer to this topic for assistance.


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
Lou Dobbs Leaves CNN
Topic Started: Nov 13 2009, 02:48 PM (387 Views)
Reaver
Troll

Soja
 
El Presidente was incredibly lax when it came to enforcing immigration standards as supposedly agreed to during talks with the US at the time. That he was often slighted by Lou Dobbs as an accomplice in encouraging the flow of illegal immigrants to the United States, turning a blind eye to the activities of coyotes [coh-yoh-tez]—basically human smuggling convoys—isn't surprising.
Dobbs' disdain for Fox's immigration policies isn't the issue here: it's the unprofessional distortion of the facts and falsely aligning the former Mexican president with a movement he never explicitly supported. Presenting a non-sequitur - as Fox's weak stance on preventing illegal immigration does not automatically make him a supporter of the reconquista - as fact is bad journalism, not to mention dishonest.

Soja
 
Who else BUT among the Mex-American open-border advocates would the theme be 'surprisingly common' amongst? I don't see that it's a 'surprisingly common theme among MEXICAN people,' do you? That is, after all, what you're attempting to say Lou Dobbs said. And what he said, EXACTLY, was that there are SOME Mexican citizens and SOME Mexican-Americans who believe in La Reconquista as a noble goal, or, at the very least, a pipe dream.
Just because somebody supports an open border doesn't mean that they support a Mexican-takeover of the southwestern United States. See: Jason M. Appel (Source) and the Brookings Institute (Source).

How you gleaned Dobbs said "SOME Mexican-Americans support the reconquista" is beyond me. Calling the movement "common", for one, implies much more than "some" and certainly insinuates the movement is more than a small radical movement. Bringing other groups into the mixture, such as any open border group, also makes me doubt that this is exactly what he said.

Soja
 
But you're not going to be convinced, as you said. You've already dug your heels in. So whatever. Take a trip to Guadalajara or Mexico City, ask a bunch of people if they think that California should belong to Mexico, then come back and let me know what they said.
i'm a retard and can't argue gud, so i suppose i must be wrong
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Soja
Member Avatar
Gentle Water, Crashing Waves

Quote:
 
Just because somebody supports an open border doesn't mean that they support a Mexican-takeover of the southwestern United States. See: Jason M. Appel (Source) and the Brookings Institute (Source).

He didn't say that. Or rather, the correspondent didn't; she said it was surprisingly common. Not that they ALL supported the idea of reconquista.

Quote:
 
How you gleaned Dobbs said "SOME Mexican-Americans support the reconquista" is beyond me.

Alright. Let's look back in time at the transcript you posted:

Quote:
 
DOBBS: There are some Mexican citizens and some Mexican- Americans who want to see California, New Mexico and other parts of the Southwestern United States given over to Mexico. These groups call it the reconquista, Spanish for reconquest. And they view the millions of Mexican illegal aliens in particular entering the United States as potentially an army of invaders to achieve that takeover.

I guess English is beyond you now?

Quote:
 
Calling the movement "common", for one, implies much more than "some" and certainly insinuates the movement is more than a small radical movement. Bringing other groups into the mixture, such as any open border group, also makes me doubt that this is exactly what he said.

Again, it's surprisingly common, not "common" all its own. If there wasn't a difference, it wouldn't be said that way, would it?

Much like you say scale matters, I say whole ideas matter, not just half the adjective phrase.

One might think that it was just one random militant Latino here or there but the fact that there is a group supporting reconquista large enough to be able to purchase an ad on a billboard (fucking expensive) declaring Los Angeles part of Mexico is kind of surprising to me. :3

Or it may have been graffiti'd onto the billboard, which I'd find more in line with those groups' behavior; I'd have to see a screenshot or a video of the ACTUAL report to be able to say so for sure.

What I can say for sure is that you're reaching in this blithering attempt to paint Lou Dobbs as a klansman or something. I've only been using the transcript that YOU posted, after all.
Posted Image
Mirar on Sep 8 2007
06:08 PM
nigga please
Fusion Universe - FEF Fanfic
Slayers Forth - Slayers Fanfic
Smartest Member '06 & '07 & '08 & 'o9 & 10, Favored Debater '07 & '08 & '09 & 10, Most Popular '08, Manliest '08 & '09, Author of Nightmares, Scourge of the Luxon, Rules Lawyer, Nick's Former Hero, Crysta's Lover

How to Get Banned From FEFF
1. Break a rule enough that a moderator has to verbally warn you.
2. Break a rule enough that a moderator has to actually warn you.
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2.
4. Repeat steps 1 and 2 again, getting suspended for a few days.
5. Repeat steps 1 and 2 yet again, getting suspended for a week and Underdogged.
6. Repeat steps 1 and 2.
7. Do all this in the course of a month.
8. ????
9. PROFIT!!!

Congratulations! You've been banned from FEFF!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Reaver
Troll

Soja
 
I guess English is beyond you now?
So Dobbs says this once, then makes multiple statements pigeonholing anyone against heavy border security (El Presidente and open-border advocates, e.g.) throughout the segment. Making one right statement doesn't eliminate the fact he made multiple blunders such as misreporting the facts (El Presidente) and creating a straw-man argument ("a surprisingly common theme amongst open-border advocates" - but Appel and Brookings would disagree). Dobbs has no intention of making the point that radical groups supporting the reconquista exist; conversely, Dobbs supports fallacious statements and incorrectly associates various groups to the movement. I'm actually surprised he didn't bring up groups such as La Raza and instead chose to single out Vincente...

[/b]
Soja
 
Much like you say scale matters, I say whole ideas matter, not just half the adjective phrase.
The modifier surprisingly only diminishes the value of "common" by a small amount - if any. Although any sort of association to the reconquista being widespread spins the fact that the movement is an agenda put forward by small groups of radicals, so even "surprisingly common" is misleading.

I'm not commenting on the billboard because I would also need to see a screenshot.
Edited by Reaver, Nov 24 2009, 10:54 PM.
Neon,June 8 2005
07:34 PM
@Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Join the millions that use us for their forum communities. Create your own forum today.
« Previous Topic · General Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2



Theme by Lewis of the ZetaBoard Theme Zone, Outline and Talk Themes