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Health Care
Topic Started: Mar 21 2010, 11:03 PM (1,778 Views)
Askio
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It has begun, and basically already happened. Democrats got over 216 votes to pass the first stage of health care reform.

What are your opinions of what's happening? I know some of us don't live in America, but it's a big part of how we live and may affect what we do in the future as well. In fact, I guarantee it will. Is this something needed? Was sacrificing some of Obama's initial plans the correct action to take, in order to get something done rather then waiting for the 'perfect plan?' Are republicans justified by just saying 'no' to everything he does, as a group? These and many other issues surround health care. Personally, if paying a few hundred dollars extra means millions can be saved on the whole, I don't see the issue.
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Admin
There is a light that never goes out...

Fuckkkkk

Is there anything left that Republicans can do to kill this thing?
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Inui
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Power of Flower

No. They tried anything and everything. They have no power anymore. We have to wait until the elections this year when the Democrats get wrecked.

I paid close attention to this shit for ages. I'm still watching live coverage on Fox News.

John Boehner is my hero.
Edited by Inui, Mar 21 2010, 11:34 PM.
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Crysta
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wat

A lot of this was kind of lol. I'm still not sure if I should like it.

Quote:
 
Despite the fact that the federal health insurance plan (a.k.a. the “public option”) is now gone from the bill, Republicans and conservative groups have continued to claim that the bill institutes a system like the one in the United Kingdom, or Canada, or otherwise amounts to a government takeover. It doesn’t. A pure government-run system was never among the leading Democratic proposals, much to the chagrin of single-payer advocates. Instead, the bill builds on our current system of private insurance, and in fact, drums up more business for private companies by mandating that individuals buy coverage and giving many subsidies to do so. There would be increased government regulation of the insurance industry, however, to require companies to cover preexisting conditions, for example. These “government-run” claims have also included heavy criticism of health care in the U.K., such as the outrageous assertion by former U.S. Surgeon General C. Everett Koop that seniors would be “too old” to qualify for artificial joints and pacemakers in the U.K. The majority of those getting joint replacements and pacemakers in the U.K. are, not surprisingly, seniors.

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~ Crysta, Zombie Queen
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GODonPCP
 
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Admin
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Whether or not the Bill as it currently is now would be a Government takeover of Health Care is irrelevant. This bill was simply the first step in that direction, and thats why it needed to die. The mandates and regulations are just going to drive costs up, create more bureaucracy, and once something gets in, its next to impossible to get rid of. God damn this makes me mad.
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Askio
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First: I lol at the illegitimacy that is fox news. I know if may be bashing opinions, but in debate, we aren't allowed to even cite them because they are considered illegitimate sources of information.

2nd: The systems in Europe in Canada work better then ours. My biggest pet peeve about this whole thing are some of the cuts and pork barreling that's being done. But the article crysta posted basically sums up the future as well. Regulation is needed. Now it depends on how much it is done.
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Inui
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Fox News is so illegitimate that Geraldo Rivera did most of the late night coverage for them. And he's a liberal.

During the day, it was Bret Baier, someone with no obvious political alignment at all.
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Blank
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Pirate

Oh the public option was taken out? So what does it actually do now?

I agree with Askio. We need a system like Canada or Europe. At least that way wouldn't insurance companies need to compete with the government's plan? As a result driving down the prices of overly priced health insurance? Buisnesses spend buckets of money on health care a year. If they didn't have to shoulder that cost (at least less of it), then that money could be spent on making our products compeditive on the world market. At least that's how I see it.
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Inui
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Blank
Mar 22 2010, 12:12 AM
I agree with Askio. We need a system like Canada or Europe. At least that way wouldn't insurance companies need to compete with the government's plan? As a result driving down the prices of overly priced health insurance? Buisnesses spend buckets of money on health care a year. If they didn't have to shoulder that cost (at least less of it), then that money could be spent on making our products compeditive on the world market. At least that's how I see it.
Holy...fucking...shit... And I was under the impression that you were smart. Wow. We need to be like Canada and Europe? Holy fagballs. What the dick...

Sorry, man. Socialism ain't my thing. I didn't know you were THIS much of a liberal.
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Askio
Mar 22 2010, 12:07 AM
First: I lol at the illegitimacy that is fox news. I know if may be bashing opinions, but in debate, we aren't allowed to even cite them because they are considered illegitimate sources of information.

2nd: The systems in Europe in Canada work better then ours. My biggest pet peeve about this whole thing are some of the cuts and pork barreling that's being done. But the article crysta posted basically sums up the future as well. Regulation is needed. Now it depends on how much it is done.
Bullshit they work better than ours.

This bill is going to increase how much it costs to get health insurance, thanks to all the mandates and shit. Increased government regulation always does this. But don't worry, Government will be more bloated now, and they will have an easier time taking us to a single-payer system in future incarnations, now that they have something!
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Askio
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Blank
Mar 22 2010, 12:12 AM
Oh the public option was taken out? So what does it actually do now?

I agree with Askio. We need a system like Canada or Europe. At least that way wouldn't insurance companies need to compete with the government's plan? As a result driving down the prices of overly priced health insurance? Businesses spend buckets of money on health care a year. If they didn't have to shoulder that cost (at least less of it), then that money could be spent on making our products competitive on the world market. At least that's how I see it.
Competitive exclusion. Survival of the fittest in the business world is what gives the people the best price, not the one most profitable for the companies. Perhaps not necessarily through a government plan, but more so through the decentralization of what has become the conglomerate of banks and insurance companies, which have gone unchecked.

And I actually don't think we need a system like Canada. But a few things.
1: Socialism is all people are equal. It's just misapplied, but that's what makes it so bad. Socialism may also apply separately to economics and government. Don't interchange the two, its wrong and very annoying.
2: European countries on average would still pay anywhere from 10-25% more on taxes than us, even with this bill. It isn't driving up costs that much, especially since Obama passed a bill that has, as of right now, lowered taxes on 93% of American households.
3: There is no proof they will totally take over the government. I think Bush did it worse when he violated the constitution to spy on us. How quickly people forget.
Edited by Askio, Mar 22 2010, 12:22 AM.
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Blank
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Inui
Mar 22 2010, 12:15 AM
Blank
Mar 22 2010, 12:12 AM
I agree with Askio. We need a system like Canada or Europe. At least that way wouldn't insurance companies need to compete with the government's plan? As a result driving down the prices of overly priced health insurance? Buisnesses spend buckets of money on health care a year. If they didn't have to shoulder that cost (at least less of it), then that money could be spent on making our products compeditive on the world market. At least that's how I see it.
Holy...fucking...shit... And I was under the impression that you were smart. Wow. We need to be like Canada and Europe? Holy fagballs. What the dick...

Sorry, man. Socialism ain't my thing. I didn't know you were THIS much of a liberal.
That wasn't exsaclty a reason why that doesn't work or a kind thing to say.
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Inui
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Power of Flower

I don't need to explain much. Anything Sentenal says, consider it co-signed by me, since I totally agree with him politically 99% of the time. I think we disagree only about gay marriage.
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Admin
There is a light that never goes out...

Blank
Mar 22 2010, 12:18 AM
Inui
Mar 22 2010, 12:15 AM
Blank
Mar 22 2010, 12:12 AM
I agree with Askio. We need a system like Canada or Europe. At least that way wouldn't insurance companies need to compete with the government's plan? As a result driving down the prices of overly priced health insurance? Buisnesses spend buckets of money on health care a year. If they didn't have to shoulder that cost (at least less of it), then that money could be spent on making our products compeditive on the world market. At least that's how I see it.
Holy...fucking...shit... And I was under the impression that you were smart. Wow. We need to be like Canada and Europe? Holy fagballs. What the dick...

Sorry, man. Socialism ain't my thing. I didn't know you were THIS much of a liberal.
That wasn't exsaclty a reason why that doesn't work or a kind thing to say.
Me and Abomb both think you are a communist now, Blank.

I don't see how anyone here can actually believe that this shit will bring health care costs down. "Hey, we got a private health care system. Lets add several layers of government bureaucracy on top of it, and then hope stuff gets cheaper!!"

god damn i cant spell today
Edited by Admin, Mar 22 2010, 12:23 AM.
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Askio
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Sentheon
Mar 22 2010, 12:21 AM
Blank
Mar 22 2010, 12:18 AM
Inui
Mar 22 2010, 12:15 AM
Blank
Mar 22 2010, 12:12 AM
I agree with Askio. We need a system like Canada or Europe. At least that way wouldn't insurance companies need to compete with the government's plan? As a result driving down the prices of overly priced health insurance? Buisnesses spend buckets of money on health care a year. If they didn't have to shoulder that cost (at least less of it), then that money could be spent on making our products compeditive on the world market. At least that's how I see it.
Holy...fucking...shit... And I was under the impression that you were smart. Wow. We need to be like Canada and Europe? Holy fagballs. What the dick...

Sorry, man. Socialism ain't my thing. I didn't know you were THIS much of a liberal.
That wasn't exsaclty a reason why that doesn't work or a kind thing to say.
Me and Abomb both think you are a communist now, Blank.

I don't see how anyone here can actually believe that this shit will bring health care costs down. "Hey, we got a private health care system. Lets add several layers of government bureaucracy on top of it, and the hope stuff gets cheaper!!"
It'll bring how much the government has to pay for it down, therefore reducing overall health costs and lowering inflation. If we have a 2% tax increase for that, then so be it. People need to stop gripping about taxes, America has it pretty easy.
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