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| Final Fantasy XII; official discussion topic | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 8 2006, 03:20 PM (1,530 Views) | |
| Renegade | Oct 8 2006, 03:20 PM Post #1 |
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what
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So, I'm quite a few hours into the game, main story is starting to unfold, etc. etc. Can't spoil any of that, however, so I'll just describe some things I've noticed in the game. Well, with a party the battles definetly feel alot more dynamic and less static-y. Although, I kinda appreciate White Knight Story's combat system more after spending time with this one. It just kinda feels a bit limited in the things you can do. Such as Gambits... apparently the only way to unlock certain Gambit conditions is if you progress through the game or buy them. So you can't heal someone when they're under 50% HP unless you buy it. Riiiiight. Graphically, the game leaves a lot to be desired honestly. Final Fantasy X looks alot better than this game, in terms of environment, textures, and model detail. However, FFXII has much more NPC's/monsters on-screen than FFX could ever dream of, and the fully 3D controllable camera and larger cities make things appear alive. Not to mention the game runs at a smooth & steady framerate. I should probably mention there is no combat music, save for special boss occasions, which was a bit dissappointing. But oh well. Your characters draw their weapons automatically whenever an enemy is near. I hate though how you have to retarget an enemy after you cast a spell/item on an Ally. Speaking of enemies, some of them tend to run away if their HP is low. I'd advise you never pursue them because they just lead you into more enemies and you will most likely die. Random treasures... I thought this wouldn't be so bad until I actually saw it in action. Sometimes you get a potion, sometimes you get 100 Gil, sometimes you get 1 Gil. Well, something is something, right? It just downright sucks when there are 2-3 monsters guarding a treasure chest which may contain either a much-needed Phoenix Down or a 5 Gil. Seriously. It pisses me off. Voice acting is a *huge* improvement over FFX's, I can tell yout that. Character show emotion and speak much faster, you know, like regular people, instead of the awkward pauses that seem to plague most japanese RPG VA. And a major plus: Vaan isn't annoying. His personality seems to be a mixture of Zidane and Tidus, more leaning on Zidane. Every cutscene is skippable. Even the Intro CG. While it is, in essence, Final Fantasy... this should have been called Vagrant Story 2. There are just so many similarities between the two games. Right down to the different weapon 'types'. Hmm, all I can think of at the moment... if you have any questions about the game, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer them. |
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| Jiz | Oct 8 2006, 03:54 PM Post #2 |
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Atmospheric Sound Effect
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How's the exploration? |
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| Renegade | Oct 8 2006, 04:18 PM Post #3 |
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what
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Alot more open-ended than FFX, but it's standard J-RPG fare, honestly. There are tons of invisible barriers and most if not all narrow passageways are guarded by monsters. So, in order to properly "explore", you really have to clear out the entire area of monsters. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Oct 8 2006, 04:42 PM Post #4 |
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The Transcendent Pig
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That's mostly for balance... With the easier enemies, Gambits really can do everything for you, and it really does sort of suck out the fun in those situations... |
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| Renegade | Oct 8 2006, 04:56 PM Post #5 |
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what
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But... it's kind of stupid at the sametime, too, because, at the moment, the only way a person can automatically heal me is if I'm below 70% HP. Which is extremely inefficient... they'll toss you a 100 HP potion if you're at 110/150 HP, but hey, I have to deal with it. This only causes party members to lose all their mana in the first 20 seconds of combat. Sure, I could disable it, but come on now, then I'm left micromanaging all 3 members of my party... which is much more difficulty provided the real-time nature of combat. In order for my party members to cast Fire on a Water monster, I have to EARN it? I seriously don't see the logic in this. Most other games with AI teammates have everything unlocked from the start, so why not here? |
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| RumourMaker18 | Oct 8 2006, 05:24 PM Post #6 |
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The Transcendent Pig
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It's a matter of acclimation... You have to remember what audience this is targeting... Matsuno loves his hardcore, but in taking on this project it was clear that things were going to have to be toned down a bit and the transition made mre slowly. It doesn't necessarily make sense, but video games are 50% suspension of disbelief... I actually had fun micromanaging people... It reminded me a lot of Summoner 2, where you're constantly switching between characters to get anything done, and I loved that. This might be my eternal optimism, but it actually struck me as sort of interesting, because you have to balance automation with efficiency. Since you're rather early on and you probably don't have that many Gambit slots, turning on Wait mode might be a bit bothersome, but I found that it helped towards the beginning... Also, just try healing less often... Waiting till the last minute isn't necessarily the best way to go about life, but if you fight intelligently you won't even have to heal that often. |
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| Carbunkle Flux | Oct 8 2006, 06:11 PM Post #7 |
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Abyssian Legend
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I'm really not liking what I'm hearing about having to earn your Gambits. That is rather lame >_<. It's already bad enough to have say, a character only availiable for the last few dungeons. How about the ability to cast Holy magic on Zombies? That makes the later and especially endgame Gambits mad useless. Not only that, but AI settings make for poor rewards for goals/chests/whatnot because unlike most abilities and skills once you're satisifed with an AI it generally stays that way. The more I hear about them, the more I start to conclude that such an awesome system should not have to suffer poor implementation and skewed game priorities. And I'm hoping that is not the case when I inevitably try it for myself. |
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| Renegade | Oct 8 2006, 06:42 PM Post #8 |
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what
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Yeah, I know. But in this case, it just plain doesn't make sense. Maybe include a more in-depth tutorial or a switch for "Novice" Gambits where they just sort of activate themselves as you do things, and "Expert" where everything is available from the start that way veteran players can just custom tailor things to their needs? I mean, really, the way it's implemented, it just seems like they wanted to have the player "collect" something else, like Materia or whatnot. As it is, it 'feels' restrictive. I don't really care what the team was aiming for, it just feels like I'm resorting to limited AI behavior because... actually, there is no reason why this design choice should have went through. I don't see it as overpowered... I mean, you're GONNA cast Fire on a Water monster anyway.
Active mode is fine for now, it's just for the reasons stated above that I feel like I'm babysitting my AI party members more than anything. They do an okay job against regular monsters, but against bosses... yeesh.
When I went into the Gambits tutorial, I thought to myself "Oh, cool!", That changed to a "...what the fuck" when I read that you only start off with like, 5 different options and you have to earn the other 95% as you progress. A few more notes: -Lots and lots and lots of savepoints. I predict this will be a very forgiving game. -Monsters drop no Gil. Only "Loot" which is sold to vendors and can be converted into Bazaar items. -You have a map for every area and a journal outlining your current quest and any sidequests as well as monster data. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Oct 8 2006, 06:56 PM Post #9 |
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The Transcendent Pig
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But can you imagine how incredibly easy the game would be? It would turn into the self-playing game that so many people were afraid it would be.
Well, actually, the typing Gambits are sort of broken in that you don't have to scan/libra/etc. your enemies to find out what element they are... While most of the time it's obvious, some of them are less so, and it's at that point where you realize how much easier they can make the game. But the point, I think, is that while you're going to cast Fire on a Water monster anyway, you're not going to be able to do it as quickly as the CPU will, which makes the game more difficult.
Well, in my view that's always sort of been the point of Gambits; get rid of the tedium and leave the important decision in. Even later on you're doing the same thing, but rather than micromanaging healing and such, you're paying attention to smaller details... But at any rate, your complaints only really apply to the beginning-ish of the game. I tend to play on my friend's file which is maybe 40% through and he has tons of Gambits at that point, if not that many slots. They accumulate pretty quickly |
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| Justin | Oct 8 2006, 07:39 PM Post #10 |
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Teh RPG Master
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Hmm, I have to agree that it is odd not having certain gambits on hand but would it have killed the design team to give you a bit more in the beginning? Looking at the other side of the coin having certain gambits at certain points makes the game feel too automated. I recall reading an articule about a guy who wanted to quit playing for the day and so since he had just saved it he was going to let the boss he was fighting kill him. The guy got up and left the system by itself, made a sandwich and came back 10 mins later. Due to his gambit set up the AI had defeated the boss for him even though that's not what he intended to happen. Your complaints do have merit Ren but, lets wait a little longer and see what happens. Maybe it gets better? |
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| Renegade | Oct 11 2006, 03:20 PM Post #11 |
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what
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I think they should have just limited gambit slots instead of limited the stuff you can do with them. Say, 1 gambit slot per 10 levels? That would work well. But then again, you'd have lamers powerlevelling to 99 just to have every gambit slot... so they should add a system where XP you gain from monsters is much less every time you level up. But, wtf, the game is released already, and I'm playing it, so I suppose I'll have to deal with it. |
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| Arche | Oct 11 2006, 03:47 PM Post #12 |
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Deliciously Demonish
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...so people are bitching now that that AI is too GOOD? That's... I don't think I can recall that happening before. |
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| Renegade | Oct 11 2006, 03:51 PM Post #13 |
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what
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Yeop. Well, it's either that or the Boss AI is sorely lacking. From what I've gathered of regular monster AI, they still just choose random targets or whomever is closest. |
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| Hsda | Oct 15 2006, 02:05 PM Post #14 |
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Unregistered
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*Preordered the Special Edition and is busy jiggling with anticipation* |
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| Renegade | Oct 15 2006, 02:39 PM Post #15 |
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what
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I'm actually stuck on a boss. This game is definetly harder than previous installments... there are tons of sections where you have to fight loads of enemies and then a boss without any time to rest or prepare in between. So, yeah, about the thing I said before about being forgiving... ignore that
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| Killer Kitty | Oct 15 2006, 03:01 PM Post #16 |
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Wizardry 9
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^ That's music to my ears. I was afraid that the game would be too easy. |
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| Renegade | Oct 15 2006, 03:35 PM Post #17 |
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what
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Unless you grind or power level, of course... then the game will be pretty tough. I tend to just fight what I have to and ignore the rest of monsters on the map. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Oct 15 2006, 04:24 PM Post #18 |
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The Transcendent Pig
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The FFXII main site is updated, and you can see all the Espers. It's a shame that they're useless, because they all look badass. |
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| Arche | Oct 15 2006, 05:05 PM Post #19 |
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Deliciously Demonish
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I'm glad to see that they corrected Shemhazai's name from the leaked "Shumihaza" that was in the first batch of English translations. |
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| Renegade | Oct 18 2006, 05:32 PM Post #20 |
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what
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Theme of the Imperials is the best music track I've heard in the game so far. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Oct 18 2006, 05:47 PM Post #21 |
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The Transcendent Pig
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The OST really grows on you. I've had it since it was released, and it wasn't until now that I've really liked more than one or two tracks. The theme song (opening movie track) is great, as are both Rabanastre themes, Penelo's theme, Bhujerba's theme, Battle Drum, Boss Battle and a few others. |
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| RiotGrrl | Oct 18 2006, 06:31 PM Post #22 |
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Errant Dreamer
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The Boss Battle music is the only piece I've heard, and it's actually jarring at first. Not what you'd expect from boss battle music... it's much more FFT/FFTA-esque. |
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| Deleted User | Oct 18 2006, 08:19 PM Post #23 |
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Deleted User
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Special edition or Regular? I managed to get the special edtion, and the two extra songs - while short - were some of the best songs on the CD. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Oct 18 2006, 08:20 PM Post #24 |
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The Transcendent Pig
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Which boss battle music? There are actually a number of boss tracks, there's just this one (the one actually calledBoss Battle) that I really enjoy... |
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| Renegade | Oct 18 2006, 08:35 PM Post #25 |
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what
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She's talking about the plain ol' Boss Battle. It's a cool track, yeah... One thing I noticed about this game is that alot of times it's plain easier to just run away from enemies and just head all the way to the boss room instead of fighting everything. Bad thing is, you'll barely have enough money to buy stuff later on. But hey, if it works... |
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| Justin | Oct 19 2006, 07:53 PM Post #26 |
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Teh RPG Master
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Less than 2 weeks to go now. I can't effing wait ^_^ |
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| Hsda | Oct 19 2006, 08:31 PM Post #27 |
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Unregistered
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*Jiggle jiggle* |
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| Renegade | Oct 21 2006, 10:20 PM Post #28 |
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what
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This game is kicking my ass. Wtf. I almost always die on every boss encounter and THERE ARE NEUTRAL MONSTERS THAT LIKE ATTACKING ME EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NEUTRAL AND STUFF. YES, SALAMANDER ENTITY, I LIKE HOW YOU CAST FIRAGA ON MY ENTIRE PARTY WHEN I WAS FIGHTING A STUPID SAND-MEN FUCKEr. |
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| Renegade | Oct 21 2006, 10:25 PM Post #29 |
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what
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But on a lighter note, it's my favorite Final Fantasy thus far. By a long-shot. Just the removal of random encounters is so awesome and really makes you feel less chained to the world. Another problem I have though is that some Hunts are impossible to find. Literally. I spent an hour looking for one until I died to some level 40 bullshit monster that was lurking around. |
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| Justin | Oct 22 2006, 06:54 PM Post #30 |
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Teh RPG Master
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Hmm that does sound mean. On a side note. 1 WEEK bitches! Count it, one! Oh god I can't wait. ^_^ |
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| Hsda | Oct 29 2006, 12:53 PM Post #31 |
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Unregistered
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OMG TWO DAYS AIIIIIIII~~~ *Suffering from anticipation* *Will most likely explode on Tuesday* |
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| RumourMaker18 | Oct 29 2006, 01:23 PM Post #32 |
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The Transcendent Pig
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I wonder when my copy will be shipped in... No more than a week, I hope... |
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| Deleted User | Oct 29 2006, 01:23 PM Post #33 |
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Deleted User
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My friend just texted me asking about FFXII. It was kinda weird, as I don't talk about games too much in real life. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Oct 29 2006, 01:27 PM Post #34 |
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The Transcendent Pig
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OMG! SAME TIME POST! And yeah, me neither. I actually don't like talking about games in RL that much; I suppose I do it enough online that I would rather talk about other things with my RL friends. |
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| Deleted User | Oct 29 2006, 01:43 PM Post #35 |
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Deleted User
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Same time posts are quite awesome. Yeah, the only thing a few of my friends ever talk about is Snake vs. Sam Fisher. |
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| Renegade | Oct 29 2006, 01:55 PM Post #36 |
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what
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Hrm, I lost interest in this already... short attention span for games are not good for RPG's. Here's a mini-spoiler, though... if you can't beat Garuda, go back and talk to the Moogle again. |
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| Hsda | Oct 31 2006, 08:16 AM Post #37 |
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Unregistered
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omg? omg. ... OMFG!!!!!! |
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| RiotGrrl | Oct 31 2006, 12:14 PM Post #38 |
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Errant Dreamer
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Yeah, I have exactly the same problem... extremely short attention span when it comes to games. I find that I can't sit for longer than an hour and play anymore. Hrm. I'm waiting for this one to price-drop, actually... the Final Fantasy games ALWAYS do, and I'm silly to buy them at launch. |
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| sharc | Oct 31 2006, 01:52 PM Post #39 |
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wandering slacker
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i just got it, but probably won't have the time to finish it for a while. i still haven't gotten more than six hours into devil summoner. an important lesson: if you want to be able to play games, don't work for a game company. :\ |
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| Justin | Oct 31 2006, 11:33 PM Post #40 |
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Teh RPG Master
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At last, after 3-4 years of waiting it's FINALLY out. Pity I won't have any damn time to play it this week X_x Sometimes I hate having a job >_< |
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| SaintAjora | Nov 1 2006, 08:45 PM Post #41 |
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Tatyana Lasaiev
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To be honest I'm not sure when I'll play Final Fantasy XII. Mainly because it's not the only game, I want to play and thus need to decide between. Still perhaps I should watch some of the extras later on since my brother did get the CE version. It may take time to beat the game, but not as much as to watch the DVD with the extras and such. At least that's what I'm assuming. |
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| Draconic-Hybrid | Nov 2 2006, 03:17 PM Post #42 |
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Unregistered
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I'm not sure if I'll play FFXII anytime soon due to my level of intrest in the game being low enough where it isn't a worthwile purchace. This is mainly due to things like FFX-2's Gunner's Guantlet raping me everytime I try it, the complete downhill spiral I have seen in FF games I've played after FF2a (the one with Cecil and Zemus [among other notables]). 3 (ie the one with Terra, the Empire, Espers, ect) was almost as good, but not quite good enough for me to ever finish it. There was just a point where I felt the need to grind for spells and hated it. ![]() 7 was a complete waste of $20 and twice the clock max. :< 9 was decent when I played it, but I didn't have much to compare it to then and now can't bring myself to replay. X was very good, but the Celestial Weapons quest completely killed the game for me. I figured I'd go for Tidus's powered-up weapon first, since the chocobo minigame can't be NEARLY as bad as GFAQers were saying it was -- and ended up nearly throwing the PS2 at a brick wall. *ironic laugh* I already discussed X-2's killer minigame, but I actually liked the gameplay till I started off Chapter 2 with that minigame. |
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| Hsda | Nov 2 2006, 03:51 PM Post #43 |
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Unregistered
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I dunno about all you, but I have the time and interest to bother playing, and I am thoroughly enjoying it. w007y4r. |
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| anderton | Nov 3 2006, 07:00 AM Post #44 |
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Unregistered
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This is a hundred times better than I expected it to be. I'm about five or six hours in. RM is right on about gambits - more than anything else, they're there to save you time, although they're also capable of playing the game for you, which is why they're not available right off of the bat. My strategy has been different for every dungeon so far - in a more difficult area, I put the battles on wait and manage every character action. In easier/grind/chain areas, I put the gambits on and change battles to active. Depending on my party, I can just as easily manage character action in active, if necessary. There's never a definite answer on what will get you through the area alive. Also, you should be able to put healing gambits on <30% not long after getting the opportunity to use gambits. Like, less than an hour. |
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| Justin | Nov 3 2006, 04:25 PM Post #45 |
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Teh RPG Master
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I know I said I wouldn't have time this week to play but, oh well I MADE time to pick this game up for a bit. Thus far it's everything I hoped it would be and maybe a bit more. My comments mirror some of Ren's first impressions. Teh game is beautiful but, there's just something missing from it that X had and I'm not sure what it is. It's almost like the color is washed out or something, can't really say. You'll really notice what I mean if you compare the character models of this game to X's. It's just odd. I've decided to pass it off as difference of stlye and have since stopped worrying about it. Because like I said the game is beautiful anyways. The voice acting and the characters in general are all very good. Each has a good personality too. One of my favorite things is how spot on the VAing is. There are so many different accents and little details like a dull echo for people wearing helmets and armor has been paid attention to as well. And yes Vaan isn't as annoying as I thought he'd be. Reminds me alot of Zidane in nature, though he can be a bit of a twit when he wants to be. Battle wise the game is well...different. I like it and at the same time I don't. The seamless battling and the semi-menu based combat is really nice. I like the Gambit idea too but, I feel like you should have had one or two particular gambits from the get go as opposed to what you start with. The things I don't like is since there is no real way to tell how strong an enemy is unless you use libra and target them it's really easy for the game to mix in stronger enemies. Though it's only done this once and nearly all of them only attack you if you attack first. That coupled with trying to run away from said strong enemies will usually get you killed. So you have to be really careful about what you attack. Other than that I really like the system. The license board is an interesting idea though I can see how it would be irksome. Simply put this game WILL make you plan ahead. It's best to buy as many skills as you can when you have the money since you never know when you'll unlock the license to use them. Weapons/Armor on the other hand require prior knowledge before you can just toss your LP everywhere. In fact this maybe the reason why treasure is so random. To make sure you don't end up with something you can't use. Though from what I've seen the game is pretty good about handing you items that you can use. Like I said though, just be careful and don't be in a huge rush to spend LP. Story wise the game is one giant politcal mess. Think FFT and you'll get the idea, typical Matsuno fare I'm sure. Of course this doesn't mean the story is bad, it's actually quite good if you can keep up with all the names. Lastly music wise the game is really good. Can't recall who did the music but, whoever it was they did a fantastic job. I love the new Crystal's theme, and the new Theme of FF remixes. Those are awesome. ^_^ Oh and did I mention that the CG is incredible and well used? So was it worth the wait? Hell yes. If you're on the fence about getting this game I suggest you buy it and stop wasting time. Here's hoping you won't regret the purchase, I sure didn't. |
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| anderton | Nov 3 2006, 05:34 PM Post #46 |
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Unregistered
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I must have some strange eye from aesthetics, because FFXII is the best looking game I've ever played. Consider, of course, that I am currently playing the game on a projection screen in 16x9 with component cables. The only big flaw in character design concerns Vaan's abdominals. Holy god, what the hell is going on there? |
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| RumourMaker18 | Nov 3 2006, 05:58 PM Post #47 |
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The Transcendent Pig
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Yeah, they really screwed up those textures... And I know what you mean about the washed out look, Justin. It's actually one of the reasons that I love the graphics so much; the color palette isn't as deep as in most FFs and that gives a very distinct feeling to it. |
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| Justin | Nov 4 2006, 12:06 AM Post #48 |
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Teh RPG Master
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I believe the models in XII were created with more "realism" in mind than those in X. It would explain the slightly washed out look they all have. I'm really starting to love the seamless slide into and out of CG for the FMV sequences. It takes you a moment to realize that the shift has occured but, then after it goes back to the game the models really don't lose all that much quality. Though no matter how many times I look at Vaan his in-game model still looks odd when you campare him to the rest of the party. About the only thing I'm really irked about right now is managing your Gil. Ren you weren't kidding when you said money was a pain in the ass to manage in this game. I can barely scrap together enough change to buy potions, nevermind armor and weapons. It's almost like the game wants you to grind for a bit just to have the extra cash on hand. They really should have made human enemies drop more Gil if they're not going to drop loot. Went through that whole damn dreadnaught sequence and I'll still just as poor as when I started. Which sucks because I NEED items BADLY. ![]() Oh and I've realized that the license board really doesn't let you control which direction your characters take. I mean ok fine you choose what armor/weapons they equip and what spells they cast, you're still going to spend the LP on something you're not going to use to open adjacent spaces. Which means all your characters are semi-jacks of all trade anyways. There really isn't a foolproof way to have them specialize in anything, unless you plan on ignoring menu commands or something. It's no sphere grid but, it works I suppose. In fact now that I think about it the License board is more of a gameplay balancer then a character developer. It's really only there to keep you from buying the most expensive stuff and destorying everything. Couple it with Gil management and well you get the point. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Nov 4 2006, 10:21 AM Post #49 |
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The Transcendent Pig
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About the SG, that's not really the case. If you try to go in one general direction you will find that your characters become more specialized as the game goes on. Towards the end of the game it seems like they do become jacks of all trades, but at least for the first 50% they're unique-ish. |
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| anderton | Nov 4 2006, 05:17 PM Post #50 |
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Unregistered
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I've been spending LP on things I'll never use to open up adjacent spaces. ![]() So far, most of my characters have similar licenses, but I definitely take advantage of each character differently. I hit a quickening with Vaan last night - red something - but haven't bought it yet. Also, I'm at the Sandsea in Westersand, and thank Christ for Succulent Fruits. |
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