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Final Fantasy XII; official discussion topic
Topic Started: Oct 8 2006, 03:20 PM (1,531 Views)
RumourMaker18
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The Transcendent Pig
You should get Charge. I swear to god, that Tech has helped me SO much.
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Hsda
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Well, I've gotten through and past the Elder Wyrm without it and it's been a breeze.

Does it become that neccissary?
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Deleted User
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Thanks guys. I'm currently trying to kill Niddhog. I may have to use status spells to do it, which is something I hate immensly.

Hsda- I mainly use who I use for stupid reasons. As I see it, Vaan and Ashe are the two leads, so I have to use them; it's just a tradition of mine. I just think Balthier is awesome, so I use him. I did like Basch, though- I was making him a nice little paladin.

I guess I should have included this in my post, but here are my people:

Vaan is my jack-of-all-trades. He's got some nice augments, balck magic, and a pinch of white magic. I equip him with a sword and shield (along with two evasion skills for a shield and gauntlents.) I'll probably make him more focused later, but I like his MP going somewhere. Balthier is just learning various techniques and augments. I also have a spear on him. I guess I should use a gun. Ashe is mainly magic, and has awesome supplement skills due to the high LP she came with. Basch, as I said, is paladin. He doesn't really have the MP for it, but I love paladins. Fran and Penelo don't have any deveopment, really. They have easily over 1000 LP between them. I don't really know what to do with them, either.
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RumourMaker18
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The Transcendent Pig
Well, it was pretty necessary for the various hunts that I did on my friend's file, and he was maybe 60% through the game...
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Justin
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Teh RPG Master
Charge is by no means necessary. In fact using it in the thick of battle can be suicide depending on what happens. Nothing like trying to get some MP only to lose all of it instead. The skill is a big gamble, better to use it when nothing is around to kick your ass if things go wrong.

Oh and just an FYI for everyone playing. The Bomb King is optional. I'm only saying this because I lost to him 16 times in a row and threw a fit because I thought I was going to have to power level or something. Turns out you don't need to fight him, boy did I feel silly ^_^;

God I hate the Renew spell though. What a bad thing to give to the enemies X_x
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RumourMaker18
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The Transcendent Pig
Well, I only ever used Charge when I was nearly out of MP and desperately needed healing, so...
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Hsda
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Couldn't you use Charge after you use Quickenings, to chain them in mass?

Or does Charge require some MP for itself, or something?
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Justin
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Teh RPG Master
Nay. Charge restores anywhere from 25-30 MP per use BUT, if the skill fails you lose ALL your MP in exchange. It doesn't cost anything to use the skill. Like I said using it when no one is around to beat your head in is the wisest choice.

If you seriously need MP during battle, for god sake use an ether if you can.
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anderton
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Charge is completely useless for Quickenings, but if you need that extra 20 or so for a Cura, it's a must.
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Justin
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Teh RPG Master
In a topic about why die hard fans don't like 12 as much as the older games I found this quote

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The best way I can explain it, is that Final Fantasy 12 is like a fine wine, vintagely aged with a good subtle flavor. FF7 was like Jack Daniels.

Both will get you drunk, but one is obviously a lot better to party with.


I don't know if thats the dumbest thing I've read all night or if it's the funniest. Maybe it's both.
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anderton
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Other than topics about die-hard fans not liking a Final Fantasy game is the last place you would ever expect to see somebody who even knows what a party is?
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Grey
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I <3 GA#42
I'm not sure what it is but this game is so interesting to me. I don't own it; I've just read a lot of reviews, watched all the trailers and such, and read people's opinions on the boards. The weird thing is, after researching it, I'm completely torn between getting and not getting it. Some of the ideas in the game just do not interest me at all and actually turn me off from it, but at the same time I can't help but want to love it. It's really quite strange and I don't know what to think of how this game makes me feel. I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and buy it. Is the Collector's Edition really worth it?
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RumourMaker18
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The Transcendent Pig
What about it turns you off?

And whether or not the CE is worth it or not is really up to you. I'm planning on becoming a developer, so the 30+ minutes of interviews was really interesting. Apart from that it's just trailers, art and a history of the series, which you can mostly get online, so...
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Grey
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I <3 GA#42
From what I understand, there is a ton of fighting that makes exploring tedious and/or frustrating. Also, call me shallow if you will but I prefer character driven plots moreso than event driven ones. I also hear that for the simple fact that you have to fight constantly and walk around for long periods of time just to get where you need to go, the game is almost doubled in game time. Not sure if there is any validity in these statements but thats what I've heard...
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RumourMaker18
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The Transcendent Pig
The only time that I've ever found moving/fighting tedious is this one part where you're in an airship, and alarm is blaring and enemies keep spawning until you turn the alarm off. Otherwise, the regular fights are just so quick that it flows extremely well.

I think you'll like the story. While it's not character driven, the characters are still extremely well done, and the dialogue is extremely witty.

And towards the beginning I did get somewhat annoyed at how long it takes to walk everywhere, but you'll find that as you go on areas are either smaller or have warping. And fighting, as a result of being so well integrated into just walking around, doesn't really extend stuff.
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Grey
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I <3 GA#42
Hmm.. It keeps sounding better and better. When I hear of walking around everywhere, does it feel like you're on a journey and is it just barren land with enemies or is there other stuff present? Like in Morrowind, for example, I loved the walking around, traveling the world type gameplay. Is FF12 similar in any way?
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RumourMaker18
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The Transcendent Pig
I don't know what you mean about it feeling like a journey, but I never get bored of walking around new areas. The levels are really well made and varied, and the fighting breaks up what could otherwise be very monotonous very nicely.
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Justin
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Teh RPG Master
The world isn't just one big bleak picture. You don't just shuffle from place to place. Sometimes you stop and gaze out at the landscape. If that's what you mean Grey there is plenty of that in there. Ya there are monsters but, you'll run into people from time to time as well. The fighting is pretty broken up so you don't feel like it's all you're doing.

You can easily avoid creatures you don't care to battle as well.
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Deleted User
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Pretty much the most exciting thing about this game for me will be seeing Gilgamesh again.
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Justin
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Teh RPG Master
Ya I'm itching to see him again too. I'll have to hold off on kicking his butt so you can see him too Mika ^_^

I'm no where near strong enough right now anyways. Need to be lv60 at least for the side bosses, save Ultima and Omega MK XII

Apparently the hidden Espers are supposed to be really, really, hard to get. Chaos in particular.
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Hsda
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Justin
Nov 14 2006, 10:22 PM
I'm no where near strong enough right now anyways. Need to be lv60 at least for the side bosses, save Ultima and Omega MK XII

Yiazmat, lol.

50MILLIONHPWOAH.

OMKXII only has 10Mil.

Hell Wyrm with 8.5Mil.

Ultima and Zodiark got nothin's on them.
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Justin
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Teh RPG Master
Err, maybe I was thinking of someone else other than Ultima? Because Omega MK XII is going to be a beast no matter what level you fight him on. Hell maybe I'll skip him. Depends on how much grinding I'm willingly to do.
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Renegade
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what
I beat Yiazmat and all I got was a lousy 10 gil.
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Deleted User
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I beat Ex-Death and all I got was this lousy t-shirt. :\
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Hsda
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Renegade
Nov 14 2006, 10:43 PM
I beat Yiazmat and all I got was a lousy 10 gil.

You sell that Godslayer's Badge for the third-best weapon in the game(Along with Omega Badge and Lu Shang's Badge.), ya know.
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Justin
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Teh RPG Master
The best being the Zodiac Spear I presume? Which is IMPOSSIBLE to get without a guide. Not opening 4 sets of treasure chests, how random can you get?
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Hsda
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Yeh, Zodiac Spear, followed by Tournesol, then Wyrmhero Blade.

Though, Wyrmhero and Tournesol are argueable, as Wyrmhero has +50 evade, while Tourn only has +25, and Wyrmhero has Holy Element. Tournesol has 10 higher attack, though.
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RumourMaker18
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The Transcendent Pig
I really want to fight Yazmat just so that I can say that I spent that much time on it.
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Renegade
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what
Actually I'm still stuck on Demon Wall.

Because everytime I play I clock like 30 mins - 1 hour and end up dying somehow.
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Justin
Nov 15 2006, 12:25 AM
The best being the Zodiac Spear I presume? Which is IMPOSSIBLE to get without a guide. Not opening 4 sets of treasure chests, how random can you get?

Indeed. I hate that I'm denied the best weapon simply because I didn't use a guide.
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Hsda
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Sheaz
Nov 15 2006, 12:11 AM
Justin
Nov 15 2006, 12:25 AM
The best being the Zodiac Spear I presume? Which is IMPOSSIBLE to get without a guide. Not opening 4 sets of treasure chests, how random can you get?

Indeed. I hate that I'm denied the best weapon simply because I didn't use a guide.

Y'know, the Tournesol and Wyrmhero blade are arguably better because they allow Evade, while the ZS does not. It only has 150 Attack, as oppost to Wyrm's 130 and Tour's 140. Not much better.

Also, Wyrmhero Blade's Holy element.
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Deleted User
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Renegade
Nov 14 2006, 11:42 PM
Actually I'm still stuck on Demon Wall.

Because everytime I play I clock like 30 mins - 1 hour and end up dying somehow.

The Demon Wall is back? Motherfucker!
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Hsda
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Back and ready for smooshin' you against a wall.
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I'm scared. It was hard enough in FF4. :[
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Hsda
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Oh, it dies fast if you know how to chain Quickenings well.

I took it down in a single move.


Hell, I took out Judge Bergan in a single move. I'm good at chaining Quickenings.
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Deleted User
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Hsda
Nov 15 2006, 01:14 AM

Y'know, the Tournesol and Wyrmhero blade are arguably better because they allow Evade, while the ZS does not. It only has 150 Attack, as oppost to Wyrm's 130 and Tour's 140. Not much better.

Also, Wyrmhero Blade's Holy element.


Oh? Well that's cool. Evade is pretty important to Vaan, and I don't have anyone using spears at the moment anyway.
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Justin
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Teh RPG Master
Quote:
 
The Demon Wall is back? Motherfucker!


Him and god knows what else. The mom bomb is in here as an enemy. Just in name though, like most of the rest of them. Zeromus, Chaos, and Ex-death(Exodus) are all summons. And the list of guest monster names is astounding.

Anyways it's official. I think FFXII gets the award for most strange area ever. The ancient city of Giruvegan is just an awe to behold. And then you figure out what's at the bottom and you're just like "why?" I really love the intrigue and mystery that seeps thru the place. Best enjoy the splendor now since Ultima and Omega MKXII are in there somewhere. Gods help me when I go back to fight them.

Speaking of the Espers and bosses in general but, Matsuno seems to have gone out of his way to make this game as hard as possible. Various boss fights will have limitations set on your party or worse. IE No magic, reduced speed ALA magnatism(FF4 anyone?), no techs, no attacking, permanent MP sap, permanent HP sap, and the list goes on.

I just beat the optional Esper Cu'chulainn last night and oh god was that a pain. I only had to fight him twice and abuse quickeninings but, yesh that permanent HP sap hurts like hell. Toss in that he posions you, uses disable, and can invert your HP and MP and it's a tough fight. Though I'm proud of my self for having beat him without Curaja on lv39. Eat that strategy guide ^_^

While these parameters may seem annoying they are in fact not. They really help flesh out the battling so it doesn't feel like the same old thing everytime you fight a boss. The worst of the lot being Palings which make the user immune to magic or attacks or both for about a minute. Those hurt.

Though I gotta say the most interesting one I've seen so far is Zalera the Death Seraph. He's immune to attacks only if his skeleton minions are on the field. Being akin to Hades that's a neat idea. Thankfully he summons them in waves rather than all the time.

Lastly since I'm now at the Pharos and basically the end of the game I shall withdraw my gil complaint. The loot is scaled well enough I suppose, twas my fault for not grinding a bit. Besidse I can hunt Mirror Knights now hehehehe ^_^

Though my complaint about the gambit system remains. I pretty much ignored it for the whole game because I never had anything to work with. By defualt if you don't find stuff like "Ally status = Ko, posion, silence, oil, blind, or confuse" at random from a treasure chest you can't buy them till you reach Balfonhiem. Which is the LAST town in the game. Ugh I can't express how stupid that is, it undermines the use of the system so badly because you get such simple gambits so late. I'm so used to doing it myself that even though I have them now I'm not going to bother to program them in. <_<

I really think they should have gone with a dual chest system. In fact Mystic Quest has what I'm thinking of. Unique chests that don't respawn and have fixed loot that is either important or otherwise. And then other chests with random respawnable loot. It would have worked so much better that way. Gambits and maybe weapons could have been stratigically placed. Hell a little work for em wouldn't have been bad either. I don't know it just seems so odd that such simple commands would be given to you so late. The freaking guide talks about it like you should have them WAAAAY ealier than you actually get them. Maybe I just had bad luck V_V

Oh well, I'm done ranting now. Comments anyone?
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Justin
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Teh RPG Master
Well just mere moments ago I finished Final Fantasy 12. Meaning I have all of the FF games completed yet again. Final level and time was lv45, 74 hours and I still tons of stuff left to do. Hunts I didn't finish, Espers left to get, Beastiary, ETC, ETC. There is easily another 40 hours worth of content in there.

While I may have had a few complaints against the various systems in the game in the long run I can say I truly enjoyed it. It's story, unlike it's brothers, takes a little more to grasp. Though of course I don't have to tell you guys that, more then half of you are Matsuno fans. The ending is nothing short of fantastic. All the loose ends get tied up. At least I think they do. Never was too good with political story lines. The vocal song in the ending isn't half bad either.

Either way this game gets a solid 9 in my book. Even though I have lots of stuff left to do me thinks I'll take a break from it for a while. I'm really not in the mood to grind right now. How are the rest of you who are still playing it faring? If you need any help don't be afraid to ask.
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Hsda
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I intend to kill the Hell Wyrm before Vayne.

Possibly OMKXII and Yiazmat, if possible, too.
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Justin
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Teh RPG Master
Most likely I'm being captain obvious here but, if you do that you'll be grossly overleved and he'll be too easy. I didn't grind at all and I had no trouble with him. Lv45 with Maximilliion and the like is plenty. Of course you need to spam Curaja during the final phase or you get raped X_X
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Deleted User
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I'm sixty hours in, but I think I'm taking a very slow pace. Just wondering, how far am I?

little spoilers



I just fought Dr.Cid. I'm at least past half-way, right?



end little spoilers
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Hsda
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Justin
Nov 28 2006, 03:19 PM
Most likely I'm being captain obvious here but, if you do that you'll be grossly overleved and he'll be too easy. I didn't grind at all and I had no trouble with him. Lv45 with Maximilliion and the like is plenty. Of course you need to spam Curaja during the final phase or you get raped X_X

.... I'm already level 55 average and I'm not even done with the first level of the Pharos -_-

Again, intend to kill Hell Wyrm. Not necissarily OMKXII or Yiazmat, though. I might kill them after I beat the game once.




Also, after Dr. Cid would be about 3/4ths of the storyline done.
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Justin
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Teh RPG Master
55? What in hell have you been doing? I took 25 hours, maybe more, to go do hunting/sidequests and the like and I didn't break lv45 till I hit the top of the Pharos. For all I know you could have half your party decked out in Embroidered Tippets. Also have to keep in mind that I was balancing my party, not sure if you're doing the same.
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Hsda
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Justin
Nov 28 2006, 10:36 PM
55? What in hell have you been doing? I took 25 hours, maybe more, to go do hunting/sidequests and the like and I didn't break lv45 till I hit the top of the Pharos. For all I know you could have half your party decked out in Embroidered Tippets. Also have to keep in mind that I was balancing my party, not sure if you're doing the same.

I only had Basch on an Embroidered Tippet until I fought Shemhazai <_<

I just do every hunt, and kill every monster(that gives okay exp or higher, so this excludes Wolfs and stuff) along the way.

Also Elementals/Entites. Metric fucktons of EXP thar.



And running up and down Giruvegan is a big help, considering I did that twice.



Oh, and when I say "party level average", I don't include Balthier, Penelo, or Ashe. S'all Vann, Fran, and Basch here.

So no, I don't have Ashe in the Sky Pirate's Den.
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Justin
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Teh RPG Master
Ah so you're not balancing then. Ok that makes sense. I'm still working on my hunts. I just wiped the floor with Gilgamesh. That was a fun battle and they've perserved his character really well. He acts all serious but, at the same time he still carries some of that goofyness he had in FF5.

Particulary when you beat him in the second battle. The other thing is he's voiced which just adds to the character. Accodring to the credits John Damaggio (Sp) did the voice work. He does a damn good job too.
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Hsda
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Justin
Dec 1 2006, 01:13 PM
Ah so you're not balancing then. Ok that makes sense. I'm still working on my hunts. I just wiped the floor with Gilgamesh. That was a fun battle and they've perserved his character really well. He acts all serious but, at the same time he still carries some of that goofyness he had in FF5.

Particulary when you beat him in the second battle. The other thing is he's voiced which just adds to the character. Accodring to the credits John Damaggio (Sp) did the voice work. He does a damn good job too.

I love the description of the Sword of Legend...

"It's just your average Sword of Legends."

... And then Gilgamesh steals it when you're not looking :P



But DAMN is Diabolos HARD.

I've lost twice to that bastard.
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Justin
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Teh RPG Master
Oh ya he's a pain in the ass. Beat him up a bit and then Quickening him into next Tuesday. That's how I got rid of him.
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Carbunkle Flux
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Abyssian Legend
This game has done a wonderful job of quelling just about all of my fears about it. It really is wonderful ^_^. I've picked it up again over the weekend and have been hunting marks.

I love the license board, I love Gambits and most of all the whole system is just wonderfully executed. I'm glad to see it wasn't a poorly executed mess like I feared and...dare I say it, it's incredibly addictive.

My only gripe is that the license board is kind of poorly laid out, but I've been using Gambits to filter my command list to the skills I want only and that has worked out very well. I also have some fun comboes set up (Balthier: Enemy HP >= 50%? Oil. Enemy = Oil? FIRA) that have just been amusing to watch work.

Right now I'm going for a Chrono Trigger effect on my characters; assigning each one an element and role and giving them spells in accordance with that. So everyone kind of is a battlemage in a way, but they're clearly tuned to specific roles. Fran is Ice element, but I generally don't want her using her spells unless she's up against Fire stuff.

My Setups So far:
Vaan = Lightning/Negative Status/Thiefy Stuff (Dagger/Shield/Light Armor)
Balthier = Fire/Support (Gun/Mage Armor)
Fran = Ice/Debuff (Sword/Shield/Heavy Armor)
Ashe = Arcane/Support (Ninja Sword/Shield/Mage Helm/Heavy Armor)
Penelo = Water/Area Recovery (Staff/Light Helm/Mage Armor)
Basch = Wind/Single Target Recovery (Spear/Heavy Armor)

It's a fun setup to use ^_^. Although I'm still not sure how I should dole out technicks asides from Fran. Vaan has 1K Needles but I dunno if it fits his role O_o.

*hugs FFXII*

I still think Quickenings are quite overpowered as well, although my restraint in using them has slowly slid down. I don't use them on plot stuff now. When it comes to the side stuff, though? That crap's getting Quickened if I start to have problems.
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Justin
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Teh RPG Master
And thus did Chaos the 11th of the 13 fall before the heros. Muhahaha! That was fun a fun fight. Kicked my butt the first time by luck but, then I gave him double back on the 2nd attempt.

Lot of work getting to him too. I'm just glad he's worth the effort. It really is too bad that some of the Espers just aren't as strong as they should be. Poor Zeromus got the short end of the stick and is stuck with Gravity as his only attack : ( At least Big Bang looks cool.

Exodus while not the strongest is still fun to have along against some weaker foes. Me drop comets on your head! ^_^ Zalera has his uses too. Just try not to depend on him too much.

Now that Chaos is over and done with I really wonder what I should do next. Me thinks it's time for some grinding so I can finish off my hunts. Those lv60 enemies are in for a rude awakening in due time. After the hunts are over and done with, save for Yaizmat, I'll move onto the big ones. Ultima, Zodiarc, Omega MK XII, Hell Wyrm. It's going to be a fun ride. Almost got the License Board done too. Everyone has about a dozen or so spaces left to go. Another 1200 LP should be just enough to finish it off.

BTW Hsda have you had any luck hunting Fafnir? I can't find him. I've been in and out of Silver flow's end on the west side and have yet to seen it "blizzard" Sure it snows but, apparently that's not enough : /

The gambit system certainly has it uses but, I prefer doing things manually since the randomness of the system makes it a little hard to work with. Sure by games end you have everything but, there are certain places I feel I should have had certain gambits when I didn't. The License Board is nice too but it really should have been organized a tid bit better. You can see some organization but, there really should have been a few more structered paths for magic, and weapon types.
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Hsda
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Justin
Dec 3 2006, 11:08 PM
And thus did Chaos the 11th of the 13 fall before the heros. Muhahaha! That was fun a fun fight. Kicked my butt the first time by luck but, then I gave him double back on the 2nd attempt.

Lot of work getting to him too. I'm just glad he's worth the effort. It really is too bad that some of the Espers just aren't as strong as they should be. Poor Zeromus got the short end of the stick and is stuck with Gravity as his only attack : ( At least Big Bang looks cool.

Exodus while not the strongest is still fun to have along against some weaker foes. Me drop comets on your head! ^_^ Zalera has his uses too. Just try not to depend on him too much.

Now that Chaos is over and done with I really wonder what I should do next. Me thinks it's time for some grinding so I can finish off my hunts. Those lv60 enemies are in for a rude awakening in due time. After the hunts are over and done with, save for Yaizmat, I'll move onto the big ones. Ultima, Zodiarc, Omega MK XII, Hell Wyrm. It's going to be a fun ride. Almost got the License Board done too. Everyone has about a dozen or so spaces left to go. Another 1200 LP should be just enough to finish it off.

BTW Hsda have you had any luck hunting Fafnir? I can't find him. I've been in and out of Silver flow's end on the west side and have yet to seen it "blizzard" Sure it snows but, apparently that's not enough : /

The gambit system certainly has it uses but, I prefer doing things manually since the randomness of the system makes it a little hard to work with. Sure by games end you have everything but, there are certain places I feel I should have had certain gambits when I didn't. The License Board is nice too but it really should have been organized a tid bit better. You can see some organization but, there really should have been a few more structered paths for magic, and weapon types.

1. Hunting Fafnir... Has to be a blizzard. Snowy with wind. Found 'im once, lost horribly.

2. Fight 'em in this order: Ultima-Zodiark-Fafnir-Hell Wyrm-Omega MKXII-Yiazmat.

3. I already have ALL my License Board filled, for all characters <_<
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