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| Twilight Princess | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 13 2006, 11:11 PM (1,378 Views) | |
| RumourMaker18 | Nov 30 2006, 09:52 PM Post #51 |
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The Transcendent Pig
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This will probably be different for you, but I don't think it reduces the enjoyment. While it's really easy, it also requires more than basic logic to do, both combat and puzzles. And (though this is exclusive to the Wii version, I guess) it requires a good deal of dexterity. |
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| Killer Kitty | Nov 30 2006, 10:22 PM Post #52 |
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Wizardry 9
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I expected the battles to be very easy, because it's been like that in all Zelda games. But I really wanted the dungeons and puzzles to be complex and often difficult. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Nov 30 2006, 10:35 PM Post #53 |
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Well, if it makes any difference, I've always found the Zelda games to be this easy, except for Zelda II; I was just a bit disappointed since I expected them to ramp up the difficulty after the backlash from WW. |
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| Renegade | Nov 30 2006, 10:38 PM Post #54 |
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what
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Eh can you really expect difficulty from Zelda games though? I mean, if you want monstrous difficulty, you know where to look (Contra, Devil May Cry, anything Tom Clancy). I'm pretty sure a hard Zelda would generate even more backlash from casual gamers. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Nov 30 2006, 10:40 PM Post #55 |
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Casual gamers aren't really the relevant ones, though. |
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| Renegade | Nov 30 2006, 10:47 PM Post #56 |
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what
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They're the ones that keep the sales up, though. |
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| Arche | Nov 30 2006, 11:22 PM Post #57 |
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Deliciously Demonish
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Extremely true. When trying to tack something onto a customer's purchases, it's almost NEVER, "you know, from what I've seen you buy, I think you might enjoy Arkham Horror/some other quality product"; but rather, "Are you buying for Christmas? We've got the Naruto collectable card game back in stock, and it's been pretty hot this year with... everyone." Catering to the lowest common denominator is how money is made. Catering to a specific demographic that knows exactly what they want and is too much for the vast majority of people to grasp in under ten seconds is Akitoshi Kawazu's job. |
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| UtopiaNH | Nov 30 2006, 11:38 PM Post #58 |
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Cu Roi
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While it's nice that Arkam Horror scales well to different amounts of players, and that it's one of the very few truly co-operative board games on the market, I still don't think that the game actually is very well designed, nor does it really come close to matching the spirit of Lovecraft's lore. I was highly dissapointed by it when I got to play it. I'd much rather suggest Cayliss, or Peurto Rico or heck, A Game of Thrones. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Dec 1 2006, 12:00 AM Post #59 |
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Casual gamers definetely keep up sales, but they aren't the ones that actively respond and generate the backlash that makes companies change their ways. Making the game more difficult could certainly deter more people, but I don't think it would make that big of a difference unless they just made it entirely unbalanced. But anyway, that's besides the point, because the whole series is so pathetically easy that a reasonable increase in difficulty would probably attract more people than it would deter. |
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| Arche | Dec 1 2006, 12:01 AM Post #60 |
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Deliciously Demonish
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I enjoy Arkham Horror. I just don't suggest it to everyone, since I know that Twilight Imperium is far more appealing, as well as A Game of Thrones, which is one of the best licensed games of all time. ...I don't suggest people play Puerto Rico, though. I can't stand Rio Grande games. The only way I'll suggest it is if I'm trying to get rid of oldstock that's in the way, just for the sake of getting rid of it. Like how lots of kids will enjoy the hottest new CCG of the season, HIGH STAKES DRIFTER, and some lucky kid will get to open up a five-volume bundle of the Zatch Bell manga because I told his mom that it was popular with people that like Naruto. |
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| Killer Kitty | Dec 1 2006, 06:07 AM Post #61 |
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Wizardry 9
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Me too.
Me too. They seemed so keen on getting rid of the "LOL CELDA LOL KIDDY CARTOON GAME" image and have made this supposedly dark and serious game but they kept the WW difficulty level, which is upsetting. |
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| Killer Kitty | Dec 1 2006, 06:09 AM Post #62 |
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Wizardry 9
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I don't want or expect something super difficult. I was just hoping for a game that doesn't beat itself like WW. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Dec 1 2006, 12:58 PM Post #63 |
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No, I meant that I never found any of the Zeldas sans II to be more difficult than Wind Waker. They're all about the same, and TP is right there along with them.
Oh, I wouldn't say that it beats itself. That one puzzle that I was talking about was extremely clever and took me quite a while to figure out; other puzzles, while easy, certainly aren't automatic or anything. One thing that's really impressed me about TP is the dungeon design; it feels very different from most Zelda games, and most games in general. It's not nearly as... obvious, for lack of a better term. It's not like all the puzzles are switches and locked doors and pits and stuff, there're a lot more subtle things that are just like trying to navigate around a big room or something. Sure, they aren't hard, but it's a much more satisfying feeling when it seems as if you're defeating the dungeon itself rather than individual puzzles within the dungeon. And I'm very, very impressed with the combat. It could still use some work, but they've integrated a lot of really cool things into it. For example, the parry from Wind Waker is still here, but instead of pressing A at the right time, you have to actually roll behind the enemy and swing your sword mid-roll; and all of the various techniques that you learn all have to be used in order to beat different kinds of enemies. The execution isn't that great, but it just feels right. Last thing for now: a benefit that the Wii version seems to have over the GCN version is, in fact, the versatility of the controls. I took a peek at the GCN controls in the back of the guide, and for the GCN version you can only have two items on at once because one button ® is reserved for special moves and a button is required for the sword. This wouldn't be that big of a deal, except that quite frequently I end up using the four items that I have on at once in quick succession. I guess I could deal with it if I had to, but it sounds really annoying. (Conjures up thoughts of Vagrant Story, actually...) |
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| Renegade | Dec 1 2006, 02:37 PM Post #64 |
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what
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Totally off topic, but Nintendo.com has Wii Component Cables in stock so if you want some go order now now. (I did) |
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| UtopiaNH | Dec 2 2006, 03:20 PM Post #65 |
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Cu Roi
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Yes, yes it is. Very well designed game in general (not quite at the top league, but the 4-player Storm of Swords expansion is quite a bit better in terms of balance). I still can't believe a liscenced game was this well done, but then again it seems anything related to the Song of Ice and Fire tries hard to match it in terms of quality rather than being a cheap knockoff |
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| RiotGrrl | Dec 2 2006, 08:40 PM Post #66 |
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Errant Dreamer
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Damn you all. My board game collection is rather paltry, and the only play that I can get is online. :\ Co-op board games... Shadows Over Camelot and Lord of the Rings, anyone? I haven't played either, but I've heard from some good friends that both are rather good... I love the little card games like Lost Cities myself. |
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| Pervan | Dec 3 2006, 12:59 AM Post #67 |
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Genetic Failure
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That reminds me that I really need to read A Game of Thrones. I have it just sitting unread on our bookcase. But with the amount of free time I have these days, I'll be lucky if I finish The Brothers Karamazov before the end of the school year >_> |
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| RumourMaker18 | Dec 3 2006, 01:44 PM Post #68 |
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Just... read it. Nothing else matters. |
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| Justin | Dec 3 2006, 11:28 PM Post #69 |
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Teh RPG Master
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Now that I think of it I started the first book in the Song of Fire and Ice series but stopped reading it for some reason. Tis not a bad book, not by a long shot. I'm just not much of a reader anymore I guess. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Dec 7 2006, 10:09 PM Post #70 |
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The fourth temple is like hell in a handbasket. There are these Stalfos Knight/Redead hybrids which have swords and such but can scream to paralyze you like Redeads, and they've killed me twice because there's a very small period of time that you can actually be close enough to attack them without them paralyzing you. And the puzzles are really hard here; I have no idea what I'm supposed to do next. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Dec 9 2006, 04:20 PM Post #71 |
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So that was a really hard dungeon, and it rewarded me with the most impressive boss fight in the series (barring the final boss in WW) and the SINGLE. COOLEST. ITEM. EVAR. It's so incredibly creative, and it's used in so many insanely fun puzzles that I can't say enough about it. I can't wait to see the next dungeon... |
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| Justin | Dec 13 2006, 10:49 PM Post #72 |
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Teh RPG Master
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Now THIS is how Zelda was meant to be played. I understand that Nintendo needed a game to launch the Wii with but, after having played the Gamecube version of TP I can honestly say I enjoy it far more than I do the Wii version. The controls feel like I've known them forever and aiming and the like is really easy. Plus you have camera control in this version. About the only other differences is that the world has been completly mirrored. Everything that was left in the Wii version is now right, and vice versa. Apparently they changed so much about the game when they made Link a righty in the Wii version that they had to change it ALL back when they made him a lefty again. Other than that Midna's voice clips are a tad shorter, because duh less disc space. Aside from those changes the game is the same like you'd expect. ATM I am headed for the 4th dungeon. Thus far the first 3 dungeons were typical "warm up" fare. I'm expecting far worse in the later parts of the game. As for the story and the like I am very pleased with teh route Nintendo took with the game. It retains everything that makes Zelda, Zelda but, the story is a bit darker and serious this time around. I'm really itching to see what happens next but I have to sleep ya know. V_V I'm hot on your heels now Rumour better hurry before I pass you
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| UtopiaNH | Dec 13 2006, 11:53 PM Post #73 |
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Cu Roi
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Is the GC version out?! |
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| Kimimi | Dec 14 2006, 12:06 AM Post #74 |
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Teikokukagekidan: Hanagumi official tea maker :)
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I have the Jp GC version, although I've only put about 3 hours into it so far. I'm a little disappointed that the game doesn't feature a true dark/light world scenario as LttP did, but I guess you can't have everything
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| RumourMaker18 | Dec 14 2006, 12:08 AM Post #75 |
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Yeah, it came out Monday, IIRC. And it sort of becomes a light/dark world situation as it moves on, Kimi. Not really, but sort of. |
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| Deleted User | Dec 14 2006, 01:25 AM Post #76 |
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Deleted User
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Did you sell your Wii version already Justin? ;-; Remember my interest in snatching your copy? |
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| Justin | Dec 15 2006, 12:28 AM Post #77 |
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Teh RPG Master
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Ay, I didn't forget Mika I still have it. ; ) Anyways I slogged thru another 3 dungeons. This game is rather hard to put down so uh ya heh maybe I'm ripping it apart too quickly. Dungeon 4 was a lot of fun and the item you get is so neat. I seriously hope it sees more use though. Never was too fond of only using an item for ONE dungeon. Dungeon 5 is sorta a dungeon and then sorta not. It's different and I thought it was a good change of pace. That and the minigame they threw in just before it was a surprise. Nice littel distraction ^_^ Now dungeon 6 made me really happy. Twas fun puzzle wise and it brought a smile to my face too. I stopped shortly after that tonight and now I'm hunting down statues so I can get to the next dungeon. Supposedly it's in the sky somewhere. As far as difficulty is concerned the game hasn't really gotten any more difficult than I would expect a Zelda game to get. I had to think on a puzzle or too but, I haven't really gotten stuck anywhere. Here's hoping the endings worth it because I've certainly enjoyed what I've seen so far. |
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| RiotGrrl | Dec 15 2006, 12:48 AM Post #78 |
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Errant Dreamer
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I am happy to say that I picked up the Wii version of TP today at the Nintendo World store. Yesss. TP and no Wii to play it on.
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| Deleted User | Dec 15 2006, 12:51 AM Post #79 |
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Deleted User
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How much you want for it? O: |
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| anderton | Dec 15 2006, 03:24 AM Post #80 |
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Unregistered
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I'm headed to dungeon #4 tonight and Rumour has me all hot and bothered because of it. Nothing like new Zelda season. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Dec 15 2006, 04:01 AM Post #81 |
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The fifth dungeon is pretty cool. Had they not had the little dungeon intro at the beginning of it, I doubt most people would have realized that it was a dungeon until a while into it just because of the theme. And the item is pretty cool if only because it introduced destructible environments to the Zelda series. |
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| Justin | Dec 15 2006, 09:50 PM Post #82 |
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Teh RPG Master
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How much you willing to pay?
We'll talk about it in person later. I have a feeling I'll be seeing you this weekend.Dungeon 4 isn't as bad as Rumour made it out to be. It is a step up from dungeon 3 but, it's not terrible. The Redead Knights aren't really all that bad either. Just mash the buttons when they paralyze you and you'll be fine. After that it's just a matter of finding your way. The first half of the dungeon is a lot of running around but, after you get your new toy things pick up. And oh ya, the boss fight is awesome ^_^ As for me I'm entering the home stretch. I knew I was ripping this game apart too quickly : / Oh well, this happens all the time when I play Zelda. Never takes me more than 1 week to beat a Zelda game. Oh well I still have plenty of stuff to go dig up though. Like I don't even have my first wallet upgrade. And I'm still missing a handful of heart containers. Bout 5-6 of them. So I'm not quite done yet. On that note dungeon 7 is annoying, lots of running around. The item is nice though and the boss fight is interesting. Than dungeon 8 while short is semi-aggravating with a rather strange boss fight. HINT: Midna's comment during that battle is misleading, don't take her literally. Use your head and look the surroundings over ; ) |
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| RumourMaker18 | Dec 15 2006, 10:15 PM Post #83 |
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The fourth dungeon was so hard because I just couldn't figure out where to go. It was actually a relatively clever solution, now that I think about it. |
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| Deleted User | Dec 15 2006, 10:32 PM Post #84 |
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Deleted User
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Actually you won't. I wanted to come up today but I didn't have a ride. It's for the best anyway, I need to study for my final that's on Monday anyway. |
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| Justin | Dec 16 2006, 01:52 AM Post #85 |
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Teh RPG Master
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Evil meet my sword! Sword meet evil! Now that's what I call a fun last battle heh. The little suprise at the beginning was nice too. It's not everyday that you get to fight that. I'm willing to bet that's the plot twist everyone was talking about. So ya I did finish it a bit on the fast end but, like I said no more than a week usually. It's not like the game is hard or anything either. Took me roughly 24-26 hours to finish the main story sans side stuff. I only got a game over about 3-4 times too. Better than my first run through OoT that's for sure. As far as being stuck is concerned Hyrule Castle had me thinking for a little bit and then a room in the City in the Sky stumped me for about 10 mins. It took it's sweet time getting here but, the game is everything I hoped it would be a maybe a little bit more. It's retains the quality that you'd expect from the Zelda series from start to finish. The plot is interesting enough, it's characters well thought out and developed, and above all it's a damn fun game. I am so glad I played this game and I think Midna just might be my new favorite Zelda character. I still have some stuff to wrap up but I think I'll take a break from it for a bit. So chop, chop guys. Come on and finish the game already so I can babble about the ending
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| anderton | Dec 16 2006, 08:28 AM Post #86 |
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Unregistered
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The real key to the redeads in dungeon #4 is holding your jump-back or jump-side buttons, and when he swings his sword, Link will avoid it and you can go in for a Helm Splitter. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Dec 21 2006, 04:12 AM Post #87 |
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The Transcendent Pig
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I'm at the... sixth? dungeon, and it's really cool. A big throwback in terms of theme and design. It feels a lot like the 2D Zelda dungeons; lots of traps, gates, switches, spinners, etc. The item that you get is really fun to use, but I can't shake the feeling that it'll just be one more item that you use extensively in the dungeon and then never again. |
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| UtopiaNH | Dec 23 2006, 03:54 PM Post #88 |
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Cu Roi
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I'm INCREDIBLY dissapointed by Twilight Princess. It's basically a complete clone of OOT, including a lot of the design aspects I disliked about it. Not to mention the game lacks ANY sort of innovation at all, it's like playing OOT with a gimmicky wolf form on top
Outside of the wagon escort fight on horseback I haven't been impressed by anything, and I loved the idea of wolf link. The game is... mediocre for such a long wait, and delay. *Sighs* |
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| RumourMaker18 | Dec 23 2006, 05:38 PM Post #89 |
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Yeah, that's probably the biggest problem. I think that the dungeon design later on is a lot better than the rest of the series, though, and considering that they're basically killing the current Zelda model after this, I think it's acceptable for it to be so lacking in innovation. |
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| Kimimi | Dec 23 2006, 10:44 PM Post #90 |
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Teikokukagekidan: Hanagumi official tea maker :)
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You can't let a game off the hook just because they promise that the next one will be all original and innovative again... |
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| Renegade | Dec 23 2006, 10:47 PM Post #91 |
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what
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But then again, if it was way too different, it wouldn't be Zelda, now would it? I'd say if it's still fun, it doesn't need to be innovative. We wait what, 3-4 years in between each Zelda? They could be making the same game for all I care for decades, and it'd still feel fresh. Plus, if there's anyone to blame for TP being too similar to Ocarina, it's the fans whining that WW was too different and they wanted another Ocarina. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Dec 23 2006, 10:56 PM Post #92 |
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I'm a big believer in respecting intention. Whenever I review something, be it in my head or to another person, I always keep in mind exactly what the developer intended to accomplish; I just think that it's unfair to consider their game of worse quality just because they didn't want the same things that you want. In this case, Nintendo (Miyamoto, specifically) made it clear that TP was meant to be the swan-song of the current Zelda model; as such, while I'm disappointed that TP was so similar to... well, everything, I don't mind that much because I know that that was what they were trying to do, and that next time they're planning on completely overhauling the formula. Coupled with the fact that TP is the best implementation of the current model to date, I'm relatively satisfied. |
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| Killer Kitty | Dec 23 2006, 11:02 PM Post #93 |
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Wizardry 9
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I'm anticipating this less and less everyday. At this point, I'm just hoping it's better than OoT. I'll have a verdict in a week or so. |
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| UtopiaNH | Dec 23 2006, 11:14 PM Post #94 |
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Cu Roi
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I wait 4 years between Zeldas to be amazed not underwhelmed. I mean the game's not even great, it's just okay, recycled material and not even GOOD recycled material. I could have gone back and played OOT and saved myself the money. And yes, I do blame the fans for whining. And I blame people who label this GotY material for supporting such shoddy releases from a company that prides itself on continual and amazing innovative releases. Seriously, if I'm going to buy a system on a small selection of amazing titles from Nintendo, it better well produce amazing titles And no, I'm not having fun fighting the same exact enemies with the same strategies and the same puzzles all over again. And if it was too different it wouldn't be zelda? Zelda 2 was Zelda, Majora's Mask was still Zelda, and the Wind Waker was still Zelda; they all played very differently than the rest of the series and gave me something new an interesting. Hell even OOT innovated a few things from LTTP & LA. I've yet to come across a Zelda that wasn't packed with new an interesting content even if it featured similar settings and themes and gameplay. Every title up until this felt like a new release. TP does not; it feels exactly, and I mean exactly like OOT, down to the enemies, methods of fighting said enemies, puzzles, settings, characters, the GAME is basically OOT with better graphics and a wolf-section added on, and I'm not appreciative. I'm also very forgiving about all things involving werewolves so it took a lot for them to screw this one up for me :/ |
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| RumourMaker18 | Dec 23 2006, 11:25 PM Post #95 |
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Out of curiosity, how far are you? |
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| UtopiaNH | Dec 23 2006, 11:43 PM Post #96 |
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Cu Roi
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The "Snow" temple. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Dec 23 2006, 11:57 PM Post #97 |
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I actually really liked that dungeon; it's probably my favorite part of the game so far, except for the last room in the Arbiter's Grounds. It seemed to me like had they not explicitly done the whole "you're in a dungeon" intro, it would have taken you a while to figure out that you were, in fact, in a dungeon. I'm hoping that the series will start to go in that direction, actually; break away from the "explore, cutscene, dungeon, item, boss" formula and into a more progressive, event-based narrative. That would probably be the best thing that they could do for the series while still keeping it "Zelda" enough for everyone. |
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| Kimimi | Dec 24 2006, 12:08 AM Post #98 |
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Teikokukagekidan: Hanagumi official tea maker :)
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I can respect intention, but at the end of the day that doesn't alter the quality of the final product. I can respect what Sega were trying to do with Phantasy Star 3, but that doesn't alter the game we got as a result of that. This is sounding like I'm not enjoying TP - I am. But it's underwhelming considering the length of time and calibre of staff they've had, and plays like reheated OoT. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Dec 24 2006, 12:34 AM Post #99 |
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My point is that my definition of quality is largely dependent on the intention of the developer. I don't think it's fair for me to say that a game is outright worse just because I don't agree with what the developers wanted to make. It's like saying that FFXII is a horrible game because you wanted a traditional RPG; no, it's not what you wanted, but that's only because the developers had no plan of making a game like that in the first place. Aonuma had the intention of making an OoT clone, a "perfection" of the formula, from the beginning, so I can understand why the game turned out the way it did. I suppose this also stems from the way I separate quality and how much I enjoy a game, too. |
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| Kimimi | Dec 24 2006, 01:08 AM Post #100 |
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Teikokukagekidan: Hanagumi official tea maker :)
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As if I can't do the same
I am enjoying the game. I don't however feel it is of the same quality as other "main" Zeldas. I do not feel TP is sub-par because of it's similarity to OoT - many games have benefitted from constant revision - but the game comes across to me as rather tired. |
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