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| I love Shadow Hearts: Covenant. | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 20 2006, 09:17 AM (764 Views) | |
| Grey | Nov 20 2006, 09:17 AM Post #1 |
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I <3 GA#42
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Just saw this board wasn't getting as much love as usual with the release of Wii and all the other next-gen news. Basically, I feel like SH:C is in the top 3 best PS2 RPGs (Yuri was cooler in the original SH though). It's neighbors are Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne and Kingdom Hearts. Yeah. |
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| RumourMaker18 | Nov 20 2006, 12:47 PM Post #2 |
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The Transcendent Pig
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I like it better than the other two entries in the series, and it's one of the better mainstream RPGs. (It's sort of funny that SH counts as mainstream.) |
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| Grey | Nov 20 2006, 02:56 PM Post #3 |
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I <3 GA#42
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Yeah, it is kinda weird thinking of the SH series as 'mainstream' cause I remember playing the original Shadow Hearts near its release and nobody really paid any attention besides hardcore RPGers. |
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| Grey | Nov 20 2006, 03:03 PM Post #4 |
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I <3 GA#42
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Oh, and for the record, which Yuri did you like best; Shadow Hearts or Shadow Hearts: Covenant? To me they were quite different. |
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| Runeslash | Nov 20 2006, 03:15 PM Post #5 |
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109th Star of Destiny
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I thought it was a mixed bag myself. Spoilers ahoy in wall o' text form. You have been warned. [sp] First, let's get the crappy parts out of the way. For the battle system: the new combo system is useless. Being able to move around in battle is pointless since you can't control it. The game is too easy aside from the final boss who's almost too hard. For the characters: Most of them are wasted potential. All the party members besides Yuri, Karen, and Kurando felt like excess baggage. Rasputin was killed off too early, especially considering that all the other villains who have to pick up the slack once he's gone all suck. And Kato just struck me as a simple-minded brute who was "forced" into the role of the villain by the creators. And for the story: The revelation about Karen at the end was just... ugh. And did every freaking villain HAVE to have stupid Harmonixer transformations? What happened to Yuri and Albert being the only ones who could do it at will?! It cheapens much of the plot, and makes Yuri's power feel less important when suddenly everyone can do it. It also hurts the immersion and connection with the characters when this human villain you've been dying to fight for hours suddenly morphs into some ugly, monstrous, rat-fuck transformation to fight you. Worst of all, at one point Kato says something to the effect of: "And unlike the other villains, I won't rely on the power of a dark god to realize my goals." Then an hour or so later, he relies upon the power of a dark god to realize his goals (complete with an ass-ugly Harmonixer transformation). Now for the good. Yuri is an outstanding protagonist and his development through the game is just incredible to watch. For all his supernatural powers, he otherwise seemed to react very realistically to everything that happened. He's not some goody two-shoes hero, but nor is he in any way evil or a jerk. There's also quite a few highly memorable and well story scenes. The standoff early on in the church, Yuri's reunions with Alice and Albert, the "Right vs. Might" scene on disc 2 (my personal favorite), the good ending. All very cool scenes. And indeed, whatever flaws the rest of the game has, they're awesome enough to be worth the price of admission by themselves. Oh, and I loved all the early 20th century settings in Europe and USA.[/sp] End spoilers. Still, for all my complaints about it, it's overall a pretty solid RPG, and certainly superior to it's rather "meh" sequel, From the New World. It was just kinda disappointing after the excellent two game streak of Koudelka and Shadow Hearts. |
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| Justin | Nov 21 2006, 11:48 AM Post #6 |
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Teh RPG Master
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Ugh From the New World makes SH:C look like a masterpiece. The only thing FTNW did right was the battle system, now that was fun and challenging. The story and it's charaters on the other hand were just kinda bleh. Though I really liked Frank and Master Mao. I suppose having Hilda around was nice too. Though the rest of em can take a hike. Particulary that Yuri wannabe Shania. She sucked so badly in that game that I played thru it WITHOUT her. Her transformations just didn't have the uniqueness and focus that Yuri's had. They oversexed the hell out of a lot of her forms too which annoys me. Back on topic now I enjoyed SH:C alot myself. While the story has a semi-rotten ending varying on what happens and how you interput it the game is still a fun and entertaining ride. I really liked the setting in both games too. That and some of it's twists were really good. Yuri we always be one of my favorite anti heros. His personality in both games is awesome and his wit is even better. On top of that his struggles to come to grips with fear in both games is really well done. As always the battle system is a joy to play with and I really liked the whole Solomon's key idea. Ok the game was a bit on the easy side but, I'm not complaining. It's nice to take a break from the SMT:N's of the RPG genre. One of you has to give me that at least : / To answer Grey's question I think I like the Yuri of SH1 better simply because he seems so inexperienced than his older counterpart. He also seesms to struggle with his abilities far more than he did in the new game. Also RS I don't think the villains were using Harmonixer powers. Sure they were borrowing the power of the gods but, they didn't actually hold command over their souls like Yuri does. It was more of the god had control of them don't you think? Oh ya one more thing. Just to let you guys know how boring I am I filled my soul counter just to see if anything would happen. Suffice to say I wasted my time. Well if you don't count all the levels everyone got eh hehehehe ^_^ |
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| Deleted User | Nov 30 2006, 11:34 AM Post #7 |
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Deleted User
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I too am a huge fan of the Shadow Hearts series. Actually, Shadow Hearts for PS2 was my first ever RPG. I remember choosing SH over Grandia II at an EB many years ago. Looking back, it was a great choice. The opening FMV of SH where Yuri is on the train and Bacon is after Alice left my jaw on the floor. After that, the ensuing dialogue and interactive battle system just keep me totally enthralled for the entire journey. Also, I enjoyed the dark atmosphere of the game, probably because before I began playing RPGs, Silent Hill was my number 1. As for SH:C, the thing I noticed that kept me having fun with the game (and that is the point of a videogame, right?) was the fact that there were several little "extra" things I could do apart from just completing dungeons and progressing in the story. There was Solomon's Key, the Trials, the Step Counter, extra Fusions, and filling up the Soul Meter to completely level all Fusions. And the fact that all those things were rewarding and interesting side tasks (I say tasks because some felt to be less than "quests"), just made the game in total feel rewarding and interesting. I do have the complaint however that the game did feel too easy. No matter how badly you screwed up in a random battle by missing hit areas or just have your party's statuses being shot all to hell, you could always recover and escape the battle and heal. I usually found myself being a gambler and continously going for Perfect, and so I missed a lot more times than if I would have just played it safe. A second complaint that I have, which is parallel to Grey's, is the fact that from SH to SH:C, Yuri lost his "It Factor" and the game lost its dark/gothic atmosphere that was present in both Koudelka and SH. When I say Yuri lost his It Factor, I mean in the original SH for PS2, Yuri had this wit and confidence about him that could not be shaken. And it was presented in the dialogue in an effective way. I think like Justin said, he was more inexperienced and that made him more wreckless, which made him more appealing. In SH:C, Yuri still had his wit and confidence (that is part of his personality), but for some reason, it just didn't feel the same as it did in SH. It has been 2 years since I've played Covenant, so I'm not sure if the difference is that Yuri is older and more conservative, maybe just less wreckless in his words and actions (therefore, a bit less interesting) after the happenings of SH? Because after all, we don't want to see a boring hero who likes to "play it safe." |
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| Runeslash | Nov 30 2006, 02:27 PM Post #8 |
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109th Star of Destiny
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Huh. I alway thought the reason he mellowed out a bit was because... [sp]Alice died. The game makes it very clear that he was deeply and truly in love with her, even after her death. And losing someone like that isn't something you just shrug off.[/sp] Well, whatever. I personally thought that a few scenes in SH2 could rival anything he did in SH1 in terms of the "wreckless" factor. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 30 2006, 02:43 PM Post #9 |
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Deleted User
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RS, the spoiler you posted is what I was referring to as the "happenings of SH." I just hadn't yet figured out how to hide the text like that, though I see how to do that now. Maybe the two are more similar than I remember, but after playing SH, I was expecting more of the same from Yuri (selfish of me, I know), however, I was slightly disappointed by the fact that he had lost the edge he had in the first title. To describe Yuri as more "mellowed out" in Covenant is exactly the word choice I was looking for when I chose "wreckless" instead. Poor word choice on my part. |
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| Runeslash | Nov 30 2006, 03:24 PM Post #10 |
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109th Star of Destiny
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Ok, that makes a bit more sense. For spoiler text type [ sp] and [ /sp] without the spaces. |
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| Carbunkle Flux | Nov 30 2006, 11:29 PM Post #11 |
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Abyssian Legend
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I have Shadow Hearts: Covenant! I just need to play it! ^_^ Well, okay- I did a little and noticed the battle system was a massive improvement over the first one. When FFXII releases its hold on my soul and I finish PSU and somehow find a way to take down Metal Saga and slog through VP2, I need to start Covenant. |
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| Justin | Dec 1 2006, 01:23 PM Post #12 |
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Teh RPG Master
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Ya I thought the same thing too. The ending of SH really has a big impact on Yuri as a person. Like RS said that's just not something you shake off. That and IIRC doesn't Geppeto say something like. He was so distrought and torn that he [sp] dug Alice's grave with his own two hands[/sp] That sounds like a big deal to me. Speaking of which I really liked how the game handled [sp] Alice's resurrection [/sp] I'm not sure why but, not seeing Roger and Yuri succeed just felt like the right choice for the story. |
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| RiotGrrl | Dec 1 2006, 02:38 PM Post #13 |
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Errant Dreamer
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I'm approaching the end of the first disc in SH:C, and while it was pretty intriguing, it failed to actually keep my interest. I'm not quite sure why. I enjoy the setting, the battle system is fairly responsive, but there's something missing that I just can't pinpoint. Hrm. One of my main pet peeves with the series as a whole is that the entire cast of characters is wearing absolutely silly clothing, considering the times. Karen would have NEVER, ever been able to wear what she's wearing. I would have liked those designs to have stayed more faithful to the period. Or, if you're going for wacky clothing design, give it to the NPCs as well. Nitpick, yes. But still... |
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| Deleted User | Dec 1 2006, 03:21 PM Post #14 |
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Deleted User
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Expect that more in disc 2. |
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| Runeslash | Dec 1 2006, 03:46 PM Post #15 |
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109th Star of Destiny
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Let's not forget Lucia and Veronica. I mean... holy crap. They even make Karen look tame, and that's saying something. The sad thing is, SH: From the New World is about 10x worse in this regard. No, I'm not kidding either. Anyhow, to business. If you need something to look forward to, there's three or four extremely good story scenes on disc 2 (one of which being the "good" ending) that are more or less worth putting up with everything else just to see them. When I say more or less, "more" means that a lot of the cutscenes along the way are decent as well, but theres a small few that really shine. "Less" means that a lot of the dungeons are long, repetitive, and boring. Also worth noting, the final boss is surprisingly tough. Whether you consider that something to look forward to or dread is another story. |
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| Renegade | Dec 1 2006, 03:49 PM Post #16 |
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what
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Tough? Covenant? Just use the item that gives you like 6x Wheel spins and you can beat him in 2-3 turns
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| Runeslash | Dec 1 2006, 04:08 PM Post #17 |
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109th Star of Destiny
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^ I dunno about 2 - 3 turns, but that is general strategy you wanna use. (rest of this post is spoiler material) [sp]Because honestly, I don't think the average party can beat him without killing his little helpers first (and quickly!!) and that takes 1 - 3 turns in itself. If they're still alive, there's a good chance they'll wipe out the entire party when the main boss uses his strongest move. Also, I only found one 6x wheel in my entire playthrough, and I saved it for this. If there's a place I don't know of where you can buy those suckers or something, then this might be a different story.[/sp] |
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| Justin | Dec 1 2006, 04:11 PM Post #18 |
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Teh RPG Master
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I never bothered using keys, never will. Not in that game anyways. Dark Seraphim FTW! ^_^ |
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| Deleted User | Dec 1 2006, 06:46 PM Post #19 |
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Deleted User
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On a related note, what the hell was up with the cell-phone move? It's like they just forget what game they were making. |
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| Carbunkle Flux | Dec 1 2006, 07:02 PM Post #20 |
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Abyssian Legend
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On a related note, what the hell was up with the cell-phone move? It's like they just forget what game they were making. Margaret totally started the cell phone move thing XD. |
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| Grey | Dec 11 2006, 11:19 AM Post #21 |
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I <3 GA#42
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I just got to Inugami Village (I haven't been able to play in like 2 weeks
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| Grey | Dec 11 2006, 12:08 PM Post #22 |
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I <3 GA#42
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Also, not to mention, it has a great FMV though I'm always disappointed in how easy the boss battles are... |
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| UtopiaNH | Dec 11 2006, 04:00 PM Post #23 |
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Cu Roi
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I have a lot of thoughts on the Koudelka series, many of them mixed in terms of emotion. However since this topic is focused mostly on Covenant I wanted to make one comment: Of the endings to Covenant, the "Bad" ending is actually the best imo. It's really interesting and it fits Yuri's character in a way that's more in tune with who he was between both games. I'm not a fan of the cast of any of the three games labelled "Shadow Hearts" as the writing quality went way downhill after a majority of the team left Sacnoth; however the plot lines of all three of the Shadow Hearts games are surprisingly creative; they just aren't presented well and the cast doesn't help to illustrate what makes the plotlines good. Covenant had perhaps the weakest of the three Shadow Hearts plots, but I do appreciate a few aspects to the game and I enjoyed it for what it is. It really is one of the highest polished titles of the generation and has a lot of elements in it that will appeal to any casual RPG player. It's a great title to recommend to casual gamers thus. In terms of overall quality IMO: Koudelka>From the New World>Covenant>Shadow Hearts Yes, From the New World is overall the best of the Shadow Hearts titles, mostly because of despite having amplified everything that's awful about the subseries (such as the cheesiness), it does have the best combat system in the series and the the next best plot next to Koudelka. Playing the game though can be a little bit of a chore at times though just because of how in-your-face it is with the series signature cheese. Atleast I'm glad to see them finally drop all the horror and serious themes and just admit that Shadow Hearts has become a quirky off-beat comedy-esque style. Also some other comparisons: Battle System: FtNW>Covenant>Koudelka>SH Growth System: Koudelka>Covenant=SH=FtNW (all three have awful growth systems) Character Writing: Koudelka>SH>Covenant>FtNW Narrative Structure: Koudelka>Covenant>SH>FtNW Plot: Koudelka>FtNW>Covenant>SH Music: SH>FtNW=Covenant>Koudelka That should provide a good assesment for how I feel about the series overall and each individual game's strengths. Covenant isn't downright bad at anything, but neither does it stand out as having done anything amazing :/ It's just a decently rounded game, wheras the others do have visible major flaws. |
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| Grey | Dec 12 2006, 09:19 AM Post #24 |
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I <3 GA#42
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Wow, looks like I need to get a copy of Koudelka. I loved Shadow Hearts, and Covenant just made the combat a hell of a lot deeper. Also, Covenant has a shitload of extra stuff to do while SH just didn't seem to have as much in that department. However, I do have to say that I prefer the horror/serious tone with a few comic relief moments as opposed to the general cheese of SH:C. Seeing as how you said FtNW has more of that cheese, I doubt I'll ever play it. |
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| Deleted User | Dec 12 2006, 01:37 PM Post #25 |
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Deleted User
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Same here. I loved the dark and gritty atmosphere of SH, then SH:C leaned more toward humor instead of darkness, and then to hear that FtNW has converted totally away from the atmosphere that I loved from SH... I don't see myself ever playing it either. The only reason that I would even be interested in it after its become dirt cheap is the praise UtopiaNH has given to its battle system. |
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| Runeslash | Dec 12 2006, 02:32 PM Post #26 |
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109th Star of Destiny
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The battle system in FtNW is good, but not THAT good... it's just SH: C with a new charge meter and actual difficulty in some (NOT all) of the fights. I mean, it's not bad at all by itself, but neither is it good enough to make up for the game's other shortcomings, IMHO. |
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| UtopiaNH | Dec 13 2006, 08:48 AM Post #27 |
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Cu Roi
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Eh, shortcomings in what way? It's not all that different from Covenant, and it's not THAT much more cheesy, it's just more obvious about it and doesn't try to keep up a pretense of seriousness early on. Later on though the plot actually gets interesting enough to carry the game; you just have to get over the hurdle of realizing the game stopped trying to take itself seriously. Which for me, was the greatest thing to happen to the series since Koudelka. I hated Shadow Heart's pretense of being serious, when it was so ridiculously badly written and handled compared to Koudelka it was a joke. Covenant went more away from the horror, and tried to carry a more "emotional" storyline which in my opinion wasn't any better because the cast was so horribly done that the emotional aspect to it is almost moot. |
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| Runeslash | Dec 13 2006, 05:55 PM Post #28 |
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109th Star of Destiny
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Lemme put it this way... about how many hours into the game does it start getting good? I'm roughly 8 hours in, and could certainly use some convincing to play further... though I probably won't get back to this game for a good while. If you, or anyone else wants to know, in detail, why I'm not fond of the game so far, read on. If anyone reading this is not interested in such things, then ignore this post. As for shortcomings... to be fair, there's nothing really WRONG with the game. It's just that nothing about it really fits my tastes and there's a ton of other games on my backlog that do. None of the characters are interesting, nor do I care about them in the least. The setting is nowhere near as interesting as the previous three games. The gameplay, while certainly more challenging than anything else in the series, just isn't compelling. Then there's the "cheese" as you put it. I don't mind cheese in itself, heck, I liked most of FF7: Dirge of Cerberus and that game was cheesy as hell. But having a naked indian chick flash me every friggin' fight, not to mention [sp]busting Al Capone out of prison with a fat mascot cat named Mao who looks like he was ripped off a Chocobo's Dungeon game or an anime convention or something...[/sp] it all just seems like overkill. The latter part, I might add, just about did the game in for me (so far). I managed to play until that little sub-plot was finished, and haven't touched it since. I generally like it when developers put a lot of story content into a game, but games like this are a powerful arguement for "no story is better than a bad story." Seriously, it's so bad it keeps me from playing an otherwise decent game. To be fair, Covenant had some of these problems too, but they weren't quite as "in your face." Plus, I really liked Yuri as the protagonist, and watching either his character development or his humor was always worth it, regardless of the quality of the story in other areas (which ranged from "I could've lived without that" to "WOW, that was incredible" throughout the game). In addition, I'll concede that FtNW does have some good points... I positively LOVE the jazz-inspired sountrack, and the graphics are some of the best I've ever seen on the PS2. Unfortunately, graphics and music don't do much to alter my overall opinions of most games, and this one is no exception. Anyhow... I guess that's about the size of it. |
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| UtopiaNH | Dec 13 2006, 06:30 PM Post #29 |
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Cu Roi
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Another couple hours (it took you 8 hours to get past the Capone scene? O.o) and you'd be at the point it starts getting interesting. Now, I'm going to post a major, major spoiler so don't read this if you don't want the entire plotline spoiled for you (I know some fo you care about that). [sp]You find out eventually the connection between Johnny, and that strange chick, as well as the malice flooding the world and it's connection to the events in Shadow Hearts: Covenant. Johnny is in fact long dead, only his spirit kept alive through the malice that is also keeping his sister alive. Johnny's psi-knife is in fact entirely malice, and you begin to piece together that Johnny should be much older than he appears to be and thinks he is only a bit further into the story. Both Johnny and his sister died with their parents, many, many years before in the crash. His sister continues to wander and is consumed by the malice, and you realize that it's the crazy chick you've seen from the beggining. It gets better than that, but I don't really want to give it all away ;)[/sp] |
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| Runeslash | Dec 13 2006, 06:41 PM Post #30 |
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109th Star of Destiny
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Uh, I might have played a bit past the Capone scene (I know I saw at least a cutscene or two after they actually escaped), or my memory could just be a bit off, it's been a while since I bothered booting the game up. Or who knows, [sp]I remember Alcatraz taking forever since I wanted to search every nook and cranny multiple times BEFORE each inmate told me to go explore again, so maybe I did take 8 hours.[/sp] Anyhow... that sounds a bit more like something I'd play, although the extreme lightheartedness of the plot up to this point barely even hinted that the story gets that serious later on. I might give it another shot after I finish my current games, although with characters like Frank and Mao pestering me the whole way, I can't promise anything. |
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| UtopiaNH | Dec 13 2006, 07:49 PM Post #31 |
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Cu Roi
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Hey it's all a matter of enjoyment. It's just sad for you to get over the initial hurdle for the most part and miss out on what made the game worthwhile. But then again, I don't really hold any game in the series with high esteem outside of Koudelka so I didn't have high expectations for the game at all. In fact, I found Covenant just as annoying as you found FtNW; I didn't like the characters in Covenant, nor in SH, so it didn't help endear either game for me. Covenant I liked in comparison to SH, SH I hated in comparison to Koudelka... so that's just how my thoughts came along. There are people who loved SH cause they played it first then hated Covenant for the same reason so many people disliked FtNW after playing Covenant; it's a shift in style of storytelling while labelled the same series - it always throws people off. All I'm saying is I think in terms of overall quality (as in weighing all it's parts), I consider FtNW the best of the Shadow Hearts subseries, but it's still inferior to Koudelka is a majority of the aspects. There are plenty of elements each game does better, and weaknesses that will turn certain people off. I just think that if you distance yourself a bit from what you expected out of Covenant and play FtNW accepting that it's not taking itself seriously you'll get by the annoying stuff, and then realize the game actually does have substance beyond it. What I find sad though is how many people were able to take Covenant or Shadow Hearts seriously despite what are really awful "non-serious" moments and just as poor character writing as FtNW yet are quick to blast the last game because it isn't being pretentious. Really, I feel the latter two games upon reflection are kind of a joke because they DO take themselves seriously and yet are so absolutely ludicrous. Meh, I miss the old SacNoth; why the hell did you all have to leave... |
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| UtopiaNH | Dec 13 2006, 07:52 PM Post #32 |
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Cu Roi
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And anyone who honestly didn't cry at Shadow Hearts version of Mata Hari deserves to be slapped in the face. God I hate "Margueritte" with a passion. And if you claim ignorance please read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mata_Hari |
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| Darkstalker | Dec 13 2006, 08:31 PM Post #33 |
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~ The QUEEN ~
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Random fact: "Mata Hari" translated to Malay, means Day's Eye (Mata = Eye, Hari = Day). If you put them together into "matahari," it becomes the sun. |
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| sharc | Dec 14 2006, 09:36 AM Post #34 |
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wandering slacker
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shadow hearts' treatment of history makes me cry in general. it's like that one far east of eden game that takes place in america, with texas in the middle of the map and chicago further north than seattle. only shadow hearts is trying to be serious. ;_ ; |
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| Grey | Dec 15 2006, 11:35 AM Post #35 |
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I <3 GA#42
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Well, I've made it to the final dungeon. I was planning on completing the game 100% but honestly I don't really have a need to since I haven't had any problems with any bosses. I did do a decent amount of the extras though; basically, all I didn't do was the Wolf Bouts (because I stopped using Blanca when I got Kurando), Fort of Regrets and the Man Festival along with some other miscellaneous sidequests. I'd rather just finish SH:C up and start over on Digital Devil Saga right now (I never finished it, and its been a long time since I played so I'm just completely restarting). Overall, I thoroughly enjoyed the game but I'm getting a little tired of the characters (including Yuri strangely enough) and the story has kind of lost my interest, although the cutscenes and FMVs have become increasingly more awesome. Hopefully this last dungeon will prove to be an excellent finale. |
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) and this is one of the most beautiful places in the game. It kinda reminds me of Princess Mononoke for some reason... I love it, not to mention being able to run around as Kurando is cool also.

1:26 PM Jul 11