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People's Wii blinders
Topic Started: Nov 27 2006, 01:55 AM (546 Views)
Arche
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Deliciously Demonish

This topic isn't just my opinion. I'd like that out in the open. I share it, yes, that's why I wrote this, but it was inspired by a conversation that happened during a game of Risk 2210 earlier this evening. Summarized, it went like this:

--

Ryan: So, has anyone talked to Joe lately?

Dale: Yeah, he's bitching about his job again. He's almost worse than Dylan that way. And both of them will probably be fired if they don't start buckling down at work.

Me: They even talk nowadays? I thought that they were still plugged into their Wiis.

Jeremy: They talk. All you have to do is press 1 for a review.

Dale: I'm really starting to get sick of hearing about that stupid system already.

Ryan: Me too.

Me: Me three.

Jeremy: I'm hearing about it on fucking WoW. If they aren't playing it, they're like little Jehovah's Witnesses going from person to person about the glories of silicon religion.

---

This made me think. It seems like a huge chunk of people I know, and a good number of the people I deal with working, have made it their personal crusade to get me to buy a Wii. It doesn't matter what I say, all I hear non-stop is, "OMG! Wii is GOD! YOU NEED TO BUY ONE!" As well as to all the others that are unenlightened enough not to want a Wii.

This is starting to piss me off to no end, for a number of reasons. The foremost being that there is virtually nothing on the system at this point that I'm interested in. The ONLY game that I'm remotely interested in is a non-exclusive that will be out next month for a system I own. Considering that I just finished paying off my tuition and am saving up for a new engine for my car, I don't see any reason to pay launch-price for a system for exactly one game. It's not like the Wii is going to drop off the face of the planet if I don't buy one right at this instant.

Secondly, nobody ever seems to shut up about the Wii. It doesn't matter what you say, they all seem to need to wax poetically about everything, no matter what the other person expresses.

Example: (this is a conversation that occurred in three forms with three different people. All of them said virtually the same thing in the same way, and to the same topics.)

---

Them: "Have you seen Wii Sports?"

Me: "Yes. It's okay. I'm more interested in-(cutoff)"

Them: "-it'sthemostawesomegameeverbecauseyouusethenunchukandswingandwowittotallyaddsdepth andwowwowwowwowwowwowwowbestgameevaronanysystemforever!"

Me: "Uh-huh. I really don't care about it."

Them: "YOU SHOULD! It's the Wii! The controller is so incredible! It's a nunchuk!"

Me: "I know all about it. I just don't ha-(cutoff)"

Them: "Ifyouswingitittotallydoeseverythingthatyou'redoingandyougetsomuchactionandwowanditsamazing!"

Me: "Yeah... I tried it out at a friend's. It was okay, but I was really having fun with his PS3 playi-(cutoff)"

Them: "SONYISEVILANDBADANDYOUSHOULDHATETHEMANDLOVENINTENDOBECAUSEOFTHEWII!

...why are we stopping/going in here?"

Me: "I told you. I need to go pick up some (miniatures paint/nails/wire connectors)"

Them: "What a waste of money! You should have just bought a Wii, since you'd have more fun with it!"

---

Now, I'm not saying that all Wii owners are stupid, but it does seem that as soon as a person purchases a Wii, they seem to get a very sharp drop in conversational topics and abilities. They also seem completely oblivious to any form of entertainment that isn't a Wii and feel the need to wax on it 24/7 to anyone in an attempt to convert them. I've had random customers start talking to me about Wiis and how awesome they are while I was showing them stuff at work. Things like Settlers of Catan, tank model kits, auto diecasts, and other stuff that's not even remotely related to the Wii. For some reason, Wii owners seem to need to change the subject of any conversation to include the Wii.

I can understand being excited about your new console, but... geez. I have never seen so many people shut their brains off and go on auto-pilot about something when other people have obviously no interest in the conversation. Or be unable to take a hint that doesn't involve walking away.

---

Them: "I love Nintendo! They are awesome!"

Me: "I want to wait and see on support. The GC and N64 were touted like this too."

Them: "Why do you hate the Wii like Mel Gibson hates Jews?"

Me: "I don't hate the Wii, I'm just saying that Nintendo has had a bad track record for third-party support on consoles for a while, and I'd like to see something exclusive that's a must-have before buying a new system."

Them: "You just hate the nunchuk because you haven't tried it."

Me: "Actually, I've tried a Wii. It's... decent, but not the kind of revolutionary experience that changes lives."

Them: "Liar. Nobody could try the Wii and not be a convert!"

Me: "You know, people said the same thing about Halo. And FF VII, a long time ago."

Them: "You're saying that Nintendo's a craphell like Microsoft and Sony?! What are you smoking?!"

Me: "You know, a lot of people said the N64 controller was revolutionary too."

Them: "Everything Nintendo makes is good for a player and done well because Nintendo loves its customers. That's why they're the best company ever.'

Me: "I'm going to stand over here now..."

---

The above was, sadly, not fictional. Pieced together, yes, but every line had a source. It's like starting up the Wii causes the owner to be completely hypnotized into believing what the very worst of Nintendo fanboys spew. Giving reasoned critiques of the system is tantamount to declaring yourself a witch in 14th Century France, and any statement that isn't "Nintendo is tops! <3" is automatically wrong. Forget that people have other opinions, forget that people have other priorities, forget pretty much everything. It's like owning the Wii reverts the owner to childhood and makes them act like a spoiled brat if you don't act all jealous of their new toy.

Ironically, I happen to know three people with PS3s. None of them have bragged about the fact that they have the system for an hour straight. None of them have expressed the idea that people without PS3s are inferior and perhaps retarded. None of them have gone into scathing indictments of rival consoles as being inferior or unworthy of purchase. And none of them have claimed that Sony is the corporate embodiment of the Moshiach/Mahdi/Jesus returned/new Buddha and will grant them eternal bliss for purchasing their new system. They haven't let it dominate their lives, and actually act like people. For a market that's been harassed, demonized, and generally mocked for supporting Sony and the PS3, they're actually quite mature about it. None of them randomly started a sentence with a hearty, "So I was playing my SONY PS3 today, and..." as if they were trying to impress someone like a Wii owner does.

It's funny. Wii owners are acting like VW owners. Now, anyone who's worked around cars will probably understand what I mean, but for the rest of you, here's how it works. VW owners believe that they have the best car on the road. Period. Why do they believe it? Because VW has told them they have the best car they can get. The VW dealership gave them personalized treatment and massaged them over and over again while doing their test drive. They believe that because the car is German engineered, it's superior to everything else in terms of safety, suspension, efficiency, and features (for the record, all those are wrong. The correct answers may vary, but generally acceptable ones would be Volvo, Bentley, Toyota (Prius) or Honda (Insight), and Mercedes). However, because they have been told that the VW is the greatest thing ever, they will not believe otherwise. They will be impressed by the fact that VW put a silk flower in their New Beetle as a purchasing thank-you/throwback to the flower-child days of the original Beetle. They will ignore the $200+ pricetag that comes with replacing your key for it because it can't be cut by the locksmith you go to for the spare key to your Honda or Chrysler. They will also ignore the incredibly awkward design of the car interiors, the inferior body panelling, and the fact that you're generally fucked in a crash because they think that they have the best brand on the market. Why? Because they've been indoctrinated and had faulty preconceptions reinforced over and over again until they think that they're fact. A VW owner parked between a Nissan Skyline GT-R and a Saturn Sky will most likely look at those two cars, and look down his or her nose at them? Why? Because he/she thinks that the other cars' owners paid WAAAAAAAAAY too much for them for what they got, and that their VW is the far better buy. It doesn't matter that the other cars completely outclass whatever they have in terms of speed, prestige, handling, or anything else. They have been told that their VW is the greatest experience that can be had, and everyone else is unenlightened.

From a psychological standpoint, it seems to me that the Wii owners are almost trying to convince themselves that they made the right choice. They seems almost desperate for the approval of others and for the 'you bought the right system, Billy' comment. Anything that goes against their narrow worldview (Wii = best system PERIOD) is wrong.

Now, I know a lot of you here really like the Wii. And I know that there's going to be some "Wii owners aren't retarded fanboys!" comments. But, really, it just seems that buying a Wii turns certain parts of the human brain off. I mean, this is worse than people acted for Halo. Or the PS2. The system's not even a month old, and you're making people sick of it. And not just within the video gaming community. I've had a friend who I've played Warmachine with for nearly four years now express the exact same sentiment, and he has no interest in video games. Same with a girl I went to Psych classes, who said that one of the other students in her Master's program couldn't shut up about the system when they were analyzing data. Her interest in gaming technology extends to Solitaire on the computer, and the occassional flash game.

I know this doesn't represent an accurate cross-section of anything, but when people seem to realise that it's okay to express that they really don't care about the Wii, they do. And it's hard not to notice a bit of a pattern when you start hearing things like, "Sure, I'd love to do coffee as long as you're not going to bend my ear about that stupid Nintendo thing." So, on behalf of every gamer out there who's perfectly happen with his or her PC or existing consoles, or who isn't going to buy a Wii just yet,, or is content with novels and the internet, just shut up already. If we want to get a Wii, we will. You don't need to convert us by indoctrination. We know it's shiny and new and everything, but just give it a break once in a while. It's not good when casual and non-VGamers are getting the view of VGamers as brainwashed drones.

So just go back to playing Zelda, Red Steel, and Wii Sports, and if we want your opinion, we'll ask you for it. Stop drenching other topics of conversation with your Wii spooge.
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Deleted User
Deleted User

Hm, someone's annoyed. But I see where you're coming from here. People are ranting about it because it's new, nothing really surprising there. I had my ear nearly gnawed off when the 360 came out and don't see anything particularly out of place with this system's hype. Being a Wii fan I might be biased, but I can understand that the system is not for everyone, and I hope I haven't come off as a zealot or anything. I'm not sitting here defending my fandom for the system though, or anyone elses, but this is really just the buzz of new technology that will fade in a few months time.
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Renegade
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what
Well, you see, people don't go on and on about the PS3 because there really isn't much to say that people don't know. Typical conversation with a PS3 owner:

Me: So you got a PS3 huh?

Him: Yep.

Me: Any games?

Him: Yeah I got Resistance and Ridge Racer.

Me: Cool, cool. How's Resistance.

Him: Aww man it's cool and all, but it's basically a run 'n' gun FPS. It has 40 player online though.

Me: Oh like Battlefield?

Him: Yep!

Me: Cool...

Him: Yep...

Me: Should have gotten a Wii huh

Him: ...yeah.

---

Now, the thing about the Wii, is that people who wouldn't normally be playing videogames are into this thing, and no matter what way you look at it, it IS a new way of playing them, which is the exciting part. Innovation is always good, and if Sony were in Nintendo's place, they'd be going on and on about the PS3 and not the Wii. It probably won't die out in the coming months, even if only a couple of the launch games are any good (well, depends on who you ask)... but with Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy, and Brawl coming along, if you think this is bad, you best get ready.

I can understand your dislike of Nintendo consoles (lack of RPG's), but understand that Nintendo, as of now, has more third-party support than Sony. And developers are getting annoyed at Sony because they are incredibly hard to work with. Just don't keep too much faith in them for now... your favorite games with the Playstation brand might just go multi-platform this generation. The Xbox 360 is selling surprisingly well.
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Deleted User
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Don't forget Brawl, that's going to have people performing ritualistic sacrifices.

Myself included.

And why do I have a feeling that this will turn into another Wii thread despite Arche's annoyance?
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Arche
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Deliciously Demonish

It's not the innovation thing or anything, it's the fact that the Wii turns people into complete jackasses who can't shut up about it or talk about anything else. There's no doubt that it's shown itself as a good console already, but the gross majority of people saying anything about it are sounding like rejects from G4.

And the fact that they go into conversations like this.

---

Person 1: I need something like Civ to play.

Person 2: You should get a Wii! It's so awesome to play Red Steel.

Person 1: But I'm not looking for a FPS, I'm looking for something strategic and world-conquering.

Person 2: Just get a Wii! Forget about anything else you own! Wii is the future!

---

Obviously, that's a little on the blunt side, but the point stands. People are using the Wii as the be-all, end-all answer to everything, even if it's not applicable. It's horribly obnoxious. It's like people are ignoring all the content of the games in favour of touting the controller. Fluid gameplay is important, and it's nice to see it getting recognition, but when people seem incapable of relaying anything beyond "YOU SWING TO PLAY! SWEET!" for how the game is, it's not exactly indicative of... anything, other than the game is on the Wii.

And honestly, there's only two games on the horizon that really have me watching them at all. Brawl and White Knight. I'll be getting both systems eventually, but there's just no point to being an early adopter at this point for either. The Wii does have a stronger lineup at the moment, but I fail to see how Nintendo automatically got awarded the world-conquering title that so many seem eager to give it.

And really, I don't care what console has the best games on it as long as they're good. I mean, I support the Saturn and the Turbo CD. I'd just like to see something that says anything about the games themselves. When Halo and the XBox was in full swing, people went on and on about the graphics, music, gameplay, and pretty much everything. Compare that to the Wii, and it's almost hard to pry something out a person that deals with anything other than "it's swingy!" about any game. If I didn't have access to the internet or hands-on time with any Wii games, I'd have no idea of what any of the games actually played like, since Wii owners are utterly incapable of saying anything positive about the games themselves, and just the system's controller as a blanket statement. Does this mean that every game plays the same? That every game has the same control scheme? That anyone can pick up any game and the exact same enjoyment out of it?

And I haven't heard anyone say that they wished they got a Wii over a PS3. If anything, the people with PS3s also have Wiis.
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Justin
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Teh RPG Master
Fanboy hype annoys me to no end. Hence why I try to keep myself in line. Though to add to this conversation I myself own a Wii but, I haven't pushed anyone else to buy one or the like. Hell it barely comes up in conversation.

In fact I can't even play the damn thing because my wrist and right arm refuse to tolerate the remote. I played Zelda for 4 hours about a week ago and now I play for 10 minutes and it causes my wrist to ache. It's disheartening. I must be serverly out of shape or something. >_<

And yes there isn't a whole lot to buy right now, hence why I wanted to wait for Metroid to come out. Though it's not like I'd refuse a gift. It's just the system isn't going to get a lot of use for a bit.
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Deleted User
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Justin
Nov 27 2006, 04:13 PM
In fact I can't even play the damn thing because my wrist and right arm refuse to tolerate the remote. I played Zelda for 4 hours about a week ago and now I play for 10 minutes and it causes my wrist to ache. It's disheartening. I must be serverly out of shape or something. >_<

Hell, it was more playing time for me so that's fine.

It's such a cute little system. :3
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Killer Kitty
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Wizardry 9
Yeah I'm sick of all the Wii fandom that's been going around too. But it will pass. Zelda with a different control scheme and games like Rayman and Red Steel aren't console sellers for me. Until the Wii gets a truly excellent exclusive, I see no reason to buy it. The same goes for the PS3, which I'm a little more excited for since it's likely going to have all the games I'm really looking forward to. When I eventually buy a Wii, I don't expect to own more than 10 - 15 games for it by the end of its life-cycle whereas I'll likely own 30+ for the PS3 (I can already think of 10 or so games I'll definitely pick up for the system that have been announced and no, Resistance isn't one of them).

Though for the record, as far as launch exclusives go, I'd rather have Resistance than anything on the Wii.
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televised
Sexy Commando
One of my friends got a Wii, and had a bunch of guys over to his house to play it. I wasn't able to go, so when I got back HOLY SHIT I was so sick of hearing about Wii junk after ten minutes.

"RED STEEL blah blah SHOOT MOVE blah blah SWING WOW blah blah"
at the same time as
"ZELDA blah blah SWORD MOVE blah blah SWING WOW blah blah"
at the same time as
"TRAUMA CENTER blah blah EXCISE TUMORS blah blah SWING WOW blah blah"
at the same time as
"WII SPORTS blah blah BOWLING YEAH blah blah SWING WOW blah blah"

You get it. I've also had conversations turn from effing math homework to the Wii.
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Pervan
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Genetic Failure
I've experienced the exact opposite. I try not to mention the fact that I'm asking for a Wii for my birthday/Christmas because it just gets me into conversations about how stupid I am for wanting a system that neither has nor ever will have decent games and is bound to fail.

For the record, though, the only reason I'm getting a Wii now is because, if I ask for it as a gift, it's free. If I wait, I'll have to pay for it or wait till next year.
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UtopiaNH
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Cu Roi
I don't like Nintendo, as everything they've done in the last ten years has continued to piss me off more and more. I'm not a Sony fan; I'm actually considering buying an Xbox 360, but I AM a Nintendo H8er. They've done nothing but show again and again how to hype something and then completely let me down, and design some of the worst interface devices with sharp edges and uncomfortable (to me) design.

No conversation, or raving lunatical response will convert me; only Nintendo actually finally getting the RPG support I'm looking for. My opinion on the DS hasn't changed; I still have far more stuff for the PSP I want, and I'm waiting to eventually pick up the DS if it ever gets enough titles. There as a point when I thought Lost Magic, Deep Labyrinth, Children of Mana, an import of the new Wizardry game, and a couple of the Atlus titles would have been enough, but the more I read on the games the less I wanted the system. Sure, in theory it can support games with mouse function and FPA-RPG design, but the only game to do that so far has been total crap and I've yet to see Nintendo string up any good US developer support. I'm far more likely to see Microsoft pull in those style games than Nintendo regardless of whether their DS & Wii interfaces support them better.

Sure, Nintendo's interfaces are trying to change the way developers work, but they don't really do anything for the RPG audience, and until I see someone like Matsuno or Kawazu actually use them and totally rethink how an RPG works, I could give a flying fuck about the "draw a spell to cast" that already was gimmicky and bad in the otherwise amazing Arx Fatalis. Support is really all it comes down to, and I have absolutely NO nintendo faith because they continue to fuck me in the ass every time I pick up one of their systems. And nothing pisses me off more than hearing people blather on and on about how great the system is and how I should own one, or how I'm retarded for not wanting the great Wii.
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Carbunkle Flux
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Abyssian Legend
The only reason I'm even considering a Wii at all is because of Smash Bros. Brawl. Otherwise, everything I've seen and want so far is on PS3. And I won't be buying that for a good while due to its unreasonable price tag.

The wiimote play doesn't interest me in the least, because I know as Zelda is already indicating, that Nintendo isn't going to use it for actual innovation in the majority of its releases (Note the majority; stuff that is obviously tuned to the Wiimote like Wiisports and Trauma Center will exist as well, as do those games on the DS that actually make me like to use the stylus). Instead, it's going to do one of two things:

1. Force wiimote control on users for games that otherwise control better (or you'd want to control otherwise; IE- Star Fox "HI!") using a standard setup with no option otherwise.

2. Use the wiimote for a lame gimmick (Drawing the Spell Rune!) in an otherwise normal game.

All other features of the Wii shall be largely ignored in favor of using the Wiimote for random gimmicks. This I have predicted. On this I hope I am wrong, but if the DS is any indication, it Will Be.

Bleah. Let's waiting patiently :\.
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Renegade
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what
But now that you mention the DS, remember what everyone said about PSP vs DS. DS was going to fail, oh it's such a gimmick, PSP is so much more powerful, etc. etc.

Look at what really happened :P
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Carbunkle Flux
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Abyssian Legend
This is quite true XD.
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Deleted User
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lol sony phails twice so far.

lolololol


But seriously, it's not looking good for the S-machine over here. :\
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RumourMaker18
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The Transcendent Pig
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I know as Zelda is already indicating, that Nintendo isn't going to use it for actual innovation in the majority of its releases


Eh, I don't know; while the remote isn't used perfectly, I would say that TP has a significantly different feel from the other 3D Zeldas. This is partially because it's level and world design is so different, but also because the aiming is so much smoother and simpler (it keeps you in the experience a lot more, I think, because it's essentially point and shoot) and even though the sword swinging isn't perfect, I've gotten far more "into" the more intense fights, and as I play it becomes more and more natural and less noticable.

It's not innovation on a massive scale like a completely turn around for the series, but it's a subtle innovation that helps the atmosphere and flow of the game. Clearly that won't be noticed by as many people just because atmosphere and flow are so objective, but still... And another thing that I just thought of was that the precision offered by the remote will facilitate innovation and change in other areas. Like, now that MP3 will aim so easily and quickly, you can bet that they're going to change the combat and level design to match that.

Quote:
 
1. Force wiimote control on users for games that otherwise control better (or you'd want to control otherwise; IE- Star Fox "HI!") using a standard setup with no option otherwise.


I think you're referring to Starfox on the DS, but if you're saying that it will play poorly on the Wii, I beg to differ **Extremely**Minor TP Spoilers, regarding a minigame* In TP, there is a flying minigame where you control a giant bird that carries Wolf Link through a primarily on rails level; you are forced to go forward, but the bird can move up, down, left and right. It is essentially a mini-Starfox clone, and it controls BEAUTIFULLY. This isn't the fanboy in me speaking, because I certainly can think of a number of instances where TP is lacking, both regarding its design and its Wii use. I can't stress just how much fun and well done the sequence is. It feels far better than using an analog stick (I'm not just basing this on Starfox; you can turn off the pointer function and control the bird with the analog stick and the pointer is far more responsive), and once you realize that you're controlling with the pointer it is smooth sailing.

Quote:
 
But now that you mention the DS, remember what everyone said about PSP vs DS. DS was going to fail, oh it's such a gimmick, PSP is so much more powerful, etc. etc.

Look at what really happened 


That's an entirely different situation, though. Nintendo has always ruled the handheld market and because of the lackluster PSP launch Nintendo was able to pick up the slack.
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Deleted User
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Wait Carbunkle, so you're complaining if they use the Wiimote too much, AND too little?

That doesn't make sense.

Don't think of the Wiimote as a totaly new controller, just something different with the potential to do things that the normal controller cannot. Even if a game does not take motion control to the max, it can still have the option in a minigame or a special part of the plot. Just because a DS game doesn't take full advantage of the touch screen doesn't make it a bad game. Castlevania DS anyone? Mario Kart? Sonic Rush?
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RumourMaker18
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The Transcendent Pig
The difference there is that because of the design of the Wii controller, many genres won't be able to remain traditional on the Wii. It IS a new controller because it changes so much, both by adding and subtracting, from the traditional model.

And I think his argument makes sense; for the most part anyway. Using motion-sensing controls just for the sake of using motion sensing controls is NOT the way to go; they should use the controls because it will work better that way. That goes both ways: overuse and underuse.
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Carbunkle Flux
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Abyssian Legend
Wait Carbunkle, so you're complaining if they use the Wiimote too much, AND too little?

That doesn't make sense.


No, I'm saying (in altogether too many words honestly) that I think the games that utilize the Wiimote in a genuinely interesting, intuitive fashion will be few and far between if the DS history is any indication. As such, the Wiimote play aspect does not really interest me.

Don't think of the Wiimote as a totaly new controller, just something different with the potential to do things that the normal controller cannot. Even if a game does not take motion control to the max, it can still have the option in a minigame or a special part of the plot. Just because a DS game doesn't take full advantage of the touch screen doesn't make it a bad game. Castlevania DS anyone? Mario Kart? Sonic Rush?

Mario Kart DS and Sonic Rush were terrible, but I'll leave that as a minor aside because it has nothing to do with my point XP.

That's the thing. If they're just going to use the Wiimote (or to put the example in more context, the stylus) as a random gimmick in a few places (Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow is pretty guilty of this), it's better to just leave that gimmick out altogether. I don't really care for gimmicky use of the device; people shouldn't use it for random rune drawing or things like that.

Using it to replace controls in otherwise normal action games is one thing that will annoy me in most cases, but I'm a bit more lax on that on one condition: If they insist on it then the option to have a standard control scheme that is completely unreliant on it is only fair as a supplement. MP:H's alternate control scheme would have been a perfect example of a good way to handle this if it didn't have unused buttons while forcing you to stop your flow to switch weapons via touch screen and such on the 'standard' control setup.

I think you're referring to Starfox on the DS, but if you're saying that it will play poorly on the Wii, I beg to differ **Extremely**Minor TP Spoilers, regarding a minigame* In TP, there is a flying minigame where you control a giant bird that carries Wolf Link through a primarily on rails level; you are forced to go forward, but the bird can move up, down, left and right. It is essentially a mini-Starfox clone, and it controls BEAUTIFULLY. This isn't the fanboy in me speaking, because I certainly can think of a number of instances where TP is lacking, both regarding its design and its Wii use. I can't stress just how much fun and well done the sequence is. It feels far better than using an analog stick (I'm not just basing this on Starfox; you can turn off the pointer function and control the bird with the analog stick and the pointer is far more responsive), and once you realize that you're controlling with the pointer it is smooth sailing.

I don't necessarily want to control Starfox like that is the problem :P. As I said above, as long as they have an optional control scheme using standard button configurations I'm a happy camper. That way if I don't like what I'm doing I'm not stuck with it.

It's not innovation on a massive scale like a completely turn around for the series, but it's a subtle innovation that helps the atmosphere and flow of the game. Clearly that won't be noticed by as many people just because atmosphere and flow are so objective, but still... And another thing that I just thought of was that the precision offered by the remote will facilitate innovation and change in other areas. Like, now that MP3 will aim so easily and quickly, you can bet that they're going to change the combat and level design to match that.

I'd love if the Wiimote were used for a mouselook in MP3; as long as they aren't stupid and try to make Wiimote clicks replace button presses for simple functions that should be done on the fly, I'm cool :P.
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RumourMaker18
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The Transcendent Pig
Quote:
 
Mario Kart DS and Sonic Rush were terrible, but I'll leave that as a minor aside because it has nothing to do with my point XP.


Sleep with one eye open.

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I don't necessarily want to control Starfox like that is the problem . As I said above, as long as they have an optional control scheme using standard button configurations I'm a happy camper. That way if I don't like what I'm doing I'm not stuck with it.


Well, the thing is, if Nintendo is going to do well they're going to have to push the controller as hard as they can, so I doubt they'll include alternate control schemes. The best you'll get is something like how you can turn the pointer off in Zelda, which doesn't really help because it leaves in the worst part of the motion control (the swordplay) and takes away the best part (the flying/aiming).

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I'd love if the Wiimote were used for a mouselook in MP3; as long as they aren't stupid and try to make Wiimote clicks replace button presses for simple functions that should be done on the fly, I'm cool .


Yeah, I agree with that for the most part. A lot of the time making an action replace a button can actually add a lot to a game, DBZBT2 and Call of Duty 3 are good examples of that, but in some cases it's just aggravating. I actually find myself using the analog stick rather than the pointer for menus in Zelda, but that might be because the menu in Zelda isn't really built to work with the pointer...
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Carbunkle Flux
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Sleep with one eye open.


I know well I'm probably the only person on this earth that hates Sonic Rush :P. As for Mario Kart DS, meeeh. I liked Mario Kart 64 a lot better.

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Well, the thing is, if Nintendo is going to do well they're going to have to push the controller as hard as they can, so I doubt they'll include alternate control schemes. The best you'll get is something like how you can turn the pointer off in Zelda, which doesn't really help because it leaves in the worst part of the motion control (the swordplay) and takes away the best part (the flying/aiming).


Then they'd be a silly, silly company that defeat the purpose of having all of the extensibility on the controller in the first place. I don't doubt that they wouldn't have an option anyway, though.

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Yeah, I agree with that for the most part. A lot of the time making an action replace a button can actually add a lot to a game, DBZBT2 and Call of Duty 3 are good examples of that, but in some cases it's just aggravating. I actually find myself using the analog stick rather than the pointer for menus in Zelda, but that might be because the menu in Zelda isn't really built to work with the pointer...


Huh. I'd think the menu would be one of the most intuitive things to use with the pointer O_o. Weird how that turns out.
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RumourMaker18
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I know well I'm probably the only person on this earth that hates Sonic Rush . As for Mario Kart DS, meeeh. I liked Mario Kart 64 a lot better.


I don't care about Sonic, but I take offense at such a statement about MKDS. I find MK64 nearly unplayable now. The courses are just so.... wide.

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Then they'd be a silly, silly company that defeat the purpose of having all of the extensibility on the controller in the first place. I don't doubt that they wouldn't have an option anyway, though.


This is Nintendo. There is no "they'd." They already ARE a silly, silly company.

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Huh. I'd think the menu would be one of the most intuitive things to use with the pointer O_o. Weird how that turns out.


In general menus are extremely easy to use with the pointer, but for some reason in Zelda the pointer seems to be rather floaty when it comes to the menus. It works perfectly for aiming, but in the menus... eh. It's not bad, it's just that the pointer is so floaty that it's faster to use the analog stick.
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You know, random complaint, but I don't like how you select things in Trauma Center SO. I'm a reborn fan of that game, but it’s a pain to hit the diagonal directions on the stick.

Edit - Aw, almost Same time post.

And I take offense to the Sonic quote. So you don't have to Rumour.

Oh yeah, and MKDS kicked ass, so there. xp
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RumourMaker18
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Really? I found it to be incredibly easy to use and efficient... Maybe it's just because I'm so used to doing it in Ratchet and Clank.
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Add it to the fact I'm used to tapping it on the side of the screen.

But in all honesty, I take back most of the things I said of that game. It's very well made. And wicked fun to do retarded voice overs with. x3
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RumourMaker18
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The only problem that I ever have is forgetting where a tool is.
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UtopiaNH
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lol sony phails twice so far.


Even if said jokingly, this is the spirit of people that I want to bash over the head.

I've never said that about the Gamecube >_>

And as a side note; the Wii is a rather limited system to last the next five years. Even if the PS3 is a little wasted, both the PS3 and 360 are technologically way, way more advanced than the Wii, and if it ends up being the dominant system it's going to require a new system in 3 years time when the technology caps out. Either that or we'll find all nintendo's innovation matters not even a little when all the actual quality AI and innovative engine design end up on other systems anyways.

Meh.
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Renegade
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You know, haha, after I thought I wasn't getting a Wii this year, my dad managed to snag one at Panama for $300, brand new.

I'll be enjoying the Wii madness this x-mas ;)
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RumourMaker18
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I don't think the technological limitations will cause the next cycle to start earlier; Nintendo won't do well that way. The only reason that that would happen is if third parties felt as if they couldn't continue development without better technology, and I doubt that that will happen.

And on a slightly different note, there isn't anything to say that the console will cap out after three years. While the average console cycle is five years, I don't think that we've ever really given a given console enough time to really cap out.
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UtopiaNH
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RumourMaker18
Dec 1 2006, 12:40 AM
I don't think the technological limitations will cause the next cycle to start earlier; Nintendo won't do well that way. The only reason that that would happen is if third parties felt as if they couldn't continue development without better technology, and I doubt that that will happen.

And on a slightly different note, there isn't anything to say that the console will cap out after three years. While the average console cycle is five years, I don't think that we've ever really given a given console enough time to really cap out.

Every console generation thus far has pushed to near capacity each system by four years into it's life. Anything beyond that is just more efficient design to get around the hardware. I'm not saying good games can't be made after that; obviously the PS2's still got life in it, but we're not going to see anything push the system any more than we already have; hell look at what they had to do to the character models in FFXII to get the architecture detail they wanted.
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Renegade
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Wii Sports kinda proved that you can have loads of fun with the Wii without the need for any sort of good graphics, though.

I don't think the Wii is about that, I don't think anyone cares about the technological peak of it, it's about what they can do with the gameplay, not the architecture. If you're looking for that sort of thing, then there's the X360 and PS3 which will both have great exclusives. But it's unfair to sort of assume the Wii will fade out quickly simply because it can't compete with these 2 consoles... from the start, Nintendo has said they were going for something completely different.

I mean, hell, when my dad brought in the Wii, my entire family was intrigued by it. Even my mom who HATES videogames... she was commenting about how fun it must be to play games on it. That's something that has never happened with any of my previous consoles.
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Arche
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Wii Sports feels more like the "OMG! Check this out!" demo game of a system that's quirky and fun at first, but later isn't played at all when there's anything else to play.

In short, Wii Sports = Fantavision.
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RumourMaker18
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Eh, I don't think so. Wii Fitness is actually very entertaining, and keeps me coming back for about half an hour everyday despite having Zelda, Trauma Center and a myriad of GCN games to play. Really, the bulk of the value of Wii Sports comes in the minigames/Wii Fitness, which make it something akin to Brain Age/Big Brain Academy in a more physical sense, and I think it's entirely worth it.
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UtopiaNH
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My point about technology isn't nintendo competing with sony and microsoft in the long term, my point is if the Wii dominates the third party software, which you people seem to want to happen, it's going to severely stagnate development, and force nintendo into that position to keep the mainstream audience happy.

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RumourMaker18
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I don't think that the mainstream will be paying that much attention as long as Nintendo continues to create interesting, compelling games and control schemes. Granted, that is a big thing to expect, but from what Nintendo has done on the DS I think they can pull it off. My only real concern is that Nintendo will use up all of their major IPs within the first year of the Wii's life cycle and people won't be interested in the flood of spin-offs and minor franchises that may or may not have said control schemes.
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Renegade
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UtopiaNH
Dec 1 2006, 08:12 AM
My point about technology isn't nintendo competing with sony and microsoft in the long term, my point is if the Wii dominates the third party software, which you people seem to want to happen, it's going to severely stagnate development, and force nintendo into that position to keep the mainstream audience happy.

Nintendo does need new IP's, at least a REAL 3D Kirby game for 2008 or something. Plus, I'm kinda hoping Sonic Wildfire aka Secret Rings turns out good so Sega supports the Wii more than they probably want to right now. But then again, people do like sequels and more often than not the consoles rely on them (Grand Theft Auto, Halo, Metroid/Zelda).

And, it's not like it's any prettier on the PS3 front.

I recall Namco commenting that it would take at least 500,000 game sales for development to break even on the PS3. Do you know what this means? Less risks, more mainstream games that they know will sell. In other words, less SaGa, more Final Fantasy ;)

I mean, this console war, I'm guessing the PS3 will have most of the big development companies supporting it with the obvious projects (DMC, MGS4, FF), while everyone else flocks to the 360 and Wii.

It's not going to stagnate development. Did you forget about the 360 or PC?
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Justin
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Needless to say it's going to be an interesting 4 years. You know what the sad thing is though? Sony created their new console with too much power. Even at the end of it's lifespan in 5 years I highly doubt any company will be able to truly tap all the potential the CELL chip has.

All that power and nothing to do with it. Where as Nintendo may not have that kind of power backing their system but, they the contoller and if they get the 3RD party support the system needs I think it'll do rather well in the long.

Microsoft is just smack in the middle of everything, they've nothing to worry about. They'll do fine in the coming years.
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RumourMaker18
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In other words, less SaGa, more Final Fantasy


Actually, the SaGa series is one of the most popular RPG series' in Japan and was Square's second best selling series premerger...
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Renegade
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Oh I know, but not exactly in the USA, where nearly every casual gamer loathes it and reviewers pick the game apart.
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Arche
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Renegade
Dec 1 2006, 01:38 PM
I recall Namco commenting that it would take at least 500,000 game sales for development to break even on the PS3. Do you know what this means? Less risks, more mainstream games that they know will sell.

So, essentially, Ridge Racer.

And there've been already a lot of smaller devs declaring that they're getting/got PS3 dev kits, such as Idea Factory, Gust, NIS, Career Soft, and a whole bunch more (I can't recall all of them offhand, but those are the ones that stuck out. Exactly how much of a deterrent is it if IDEA FACTORY is developing?). Doesn't seem to me that that's the reaction of 'shying away'.

As for people 'flocking' to the 360, the 360 still hasn't gotten rid of the two biggest stigmas going for it:

1) The people that the 360 appeals to enjoy FPSes and sports games, with the occassional GTA or racing game only; and are not receptive to anything else.

2) 360 owners want the same things that PC gamers want, but with a controller.

In terms of variety, the 360 isn't as super awesome as a lot of people like to think it is. Like how the RPG front is almost entirely the result of MS throwing money at MistWalker and getting them to outsource crap ASAP.

The Wii... I can definitely see it going downhill in terms of support down the line as projects for the Wii become even more unportable than they already are due to technical downscaling. It'll polarize a lot of devs into sticking with the Wii, or going for PS3 or 360 games, where they can at least have the option of multi-consoling without the sheer amount of problems the Wii would provide.
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