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Speaker of the People's Assembly and World Assembly Delegate Pidgeon Island Members of the Committee TBA World Assembly Delegate Angusp (aka Bodegraven) High General of the GRADF Joe Bobs |
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| The nature of politics... | |
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| Topic Started: Apr 21 2006, 05:00 PM (782 Views) | |
| U-ropa | Apr 21 2006, 05:00 PM Post #1 |
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Unregistered
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I'm currently enjoying Francis Fukuyama's book on the 'end of history'. Ignoring the Hegelian bit, Fukuyama argues that the end of the cold war provided the culmination of the ideological forces unleashed by the American and French revolutions. With the end of the cold war, we saw the apparent triumph of liberal democracy and market forces, and the relegation of the other great ideologies (nationalism, fascism, communism et al) to the dustbin that is victor’s history. If one looks at present British politics, the difference between the main parties is in fact very small, the only real differences being arguments over application rather then substance, i.e., the best way to reform the National Health Service. One must then ask ourselves, is there any ideology left in contemporary western politics, or is the future, as Fukuyama argues, just going to be about pedantic debates around what packaging your capitalism comes in? |
 
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| Calculators | Apr 22 2006, 06:21 PM Post #41 |
How very dare you
  ![]](http://z3.ifrm.com/63/36/0/p14794/pip_r.png)
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Amongst all this i would like to congradulate Rinius He is the only thing that L&H and Uropa have agreed on KH and Uropa have agreed on |
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| Pidgeon Island | Apr 22 2006, 06:24 PM Post #42 |
Not so stale.
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And I think the entire region agrees he ought to quit he's behind. |
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| Calculators | Apr 22 2006, 06:26 PM Post #43 |
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How very dare you
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tbh i think he has already |
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| The Ruescher Empire | Apr 22 2006, 07:19 PM Post #44 |
Buh
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Lol you shouldnt be so mean to the guy.... |
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| The Ruescher Empire | Apr 22 2006, 07:24 PM Post #45 |
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Buh
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Leave the man alone  He has a right to his own opinions as with everyone else!
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| Northern Chittowa | Apr 22 2006, 07:44 PM Post #46 |
The Grand Old Duke
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You can understand why the BNP have gained such support over the last few years. Im not saying this support is correct, yet you can understand why it has come about. For instance, firstly the most obvious points is terrorism and certain minority groups involvement in this. Because of 9/11 and 7/7 etc, which was all performed by Muslims, young impressionable White people of my generation have brought in the generalisation that all Muslims are terrorists and should be kicked out of the country. However that aside, you also see the point I made in a topic about a month or so ago, about the generalisations of past generations being passed down the hereditary line. For instance, my fathers and mothers generation saw the increase in immigrants coming to the UK, and saw the ‘consequences’ of their arrival, such as many moving into a previous white neighbourhood causing dissent among the populous, taking jobs which were previously white peoples and so on and so forth. Also a generalisation was passed down to them by their fathers with other cultures, such as Africans etc, are below us ‘white Europeans’ and again this can be traced back to the Victorians and even further into the past. Returning back to my generation however, with the terrorism being one of the main factors towards racism and the rise of the BNP, political correctness advocates are also to blame. They try so hard not to alienate certain cultures and religions by changing aspects of the ‘national religion’ and other country specific things, such as flying the countries flag (I wonder how many flags I will see on houses this coming St George day?), that they just stir up hatred within people, such as my generation who then will pass it down to the next and then the next. Other points would be the small minority of the immigrants etc being benefit cheats and work being transferred abroad to other countries (such as AOL UK help line being based in India and Car manufacturing moving to other areas outside the UK) also lead to racism. Until people start to learn and accept, this will never change and the generalisations of my generation will be passed on to the next… Also someone made a point about white people becoming a minority in areas, this is true, with Bradford already having a very small white population while Birmingham and Leicester by 2015 (I think) should have their white population reduced to a small minority as well… |
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| Kozh Heol | Apr 22 2006, 09:47 PM Post #47 |
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I expected nothing better from you, the guy who I vividly remember said you had a soft spot for the Nazis. |
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| The Ruescher Empire | Apr 23 2006, 08:11 AM Post #48 |
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Buh
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Not the Nazis of WWII per say, more of National Socialist ideals, i believe that they do have some value to them and very good reasons for their beliefs. |
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| Love and Honour | Apr 23 2006, 08:34 AM Post #49 |
Yes Sir; No Sir: 3 Bags Full Sir
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Do you mean the road building programme or the systematic slaughter of millions who did not fit in. Assuming it is not the later point can you give us more detail on their "ideals of Value" |
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| U-ropa | Apr 23 2006, 12:45 PM Post #50 |
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then you are a complete idiot. |
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| U-ropa | Apr 23 2006, 12:54 PM Post #51 |
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Actually TRE... I am prepared to go a step further then that. You claim in another thread to be a "defender of liberty", pray tell, how do you reconcile that with having a soft-spot for National Socialism? I assume that you are aware that there is no such thing as 'liberty' in a totalitarian society, nor is there such thing as 'freedom of speech' nor is there any rational way you can juxtapose any concept of freedom with the concept of national socialism. Oh no... I forgot... Theres always racial freedom, the end of non-white tyranny over the 'master-race'.. Is that what you believe in TRE? Or are you just a confused teenager who sees political capital in standing up for the rights of a self-proclaimed fascist? edit- my brain is suffering. |
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| Arov | Apr 23 2006, 02:42 PM Post #52 |
Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
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Having visited places like Harvard square in Boston, I can assure you that ideologies asking for the overthrow of the contemporary model of society are far from dead. Yesterday in Harvard square, I saw a flyer advertising a sale of Anarchist literature, and Communist ideology lives on at Revolution Books (here is their website by the way, just to show the sheltered ones what kind of things pop up around Harvard U: http://www.angelfire.com/ma/revbooks/index.html). Communism and Anarchism are, and always will be, manifestations of social angst of some sort. Don't tell me that radical Islam is not another such ideology as well, and it is very contemporary. So long as there is social/philosophical angst among large amounts of people, radical ideology will have a bite; in some parts of the world more than others. Those pedantic arguments that U-ropa mentions are not very pedantic at all. By my analysis, those arguments reflect uncertainty over how to measure society’s success within the context of the same liberalism that shaped the world before the end of the Cold War. That uncertainty will make ideological differences more apparent. A free-market, especially, will accentuate these differences because a free market that the government cannot control completely may not follow the path of success the people/government want it too. The movement of corporations throughout the world will cause individual states to find a balance between accepting and shaking off corporate influence over their lives, decisions that could affect the entire world economy, as other states with differing views of national success may find it hard to cope economically. This should elicit greater ideological diversity than in previous history, as many should be seeking alternative solutions to the morale that drives a free-market. History is far from over! As for the other “great ideologies”, to me, they are just pedantic arguments over what package your state authoritarianism comes in. In the case of Nationalism, however, leaders are going to have to find a balance between shaping national/cultural identity and letting foreign corporations dissolve their nations' cultures while bringing an economic benefit. New ideologies should arise from this sort of conflict. |
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| U-ropa | Apr 23 2006, 02:53 PM Post #53 |
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opps. just realised that was fukuyama's pedantry. |
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| The Ruescher Empire | Apr 23 2006, 06:58 PM Post #54 |
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Buh
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National Socialism does not promote the killing nor destruction of any race, nor the advantage of one race over the other. What people seem not to understand about National Socialism is that it believe segregation by country is the best thing. For example, they would deport blacks back to Africa, not kill them. They got a bad name with the whole Hitler thing, but in truth National Socialism does not entirely believe in Dictatorship, the belief system believes in any form of government that will preserve the race effectively, wether it be through democracy or authoritarian government. The whole Master Race thing was a pure Hitler belief, he believed that the German Race was superior to all others, not the white race was superior to all others. So know your National Socialism Uropa before you critique it. |
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| walkerstown | Apr 23 2006, 07:22 PM Post #55 |
GRADF Brevet General/Meritocratic Paternalist
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It saddens me that stuff like that's being posted. |
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| Pidgeon Island | Apr 23 2006, 07:34 PM Post #56 |
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Not so stale.
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TRE, I know you're a nazi-sympathiser, but the fact that you're spewing stuff like this out just saddens me. National Socialists were behind the worst horrors in history. If you've never seen it I advise you to watch the video footage taken upon the liberation of the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, which was set up to, as you call it, "preserve the race effectively". |
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| The Ruescher Empire | Apr 23 2006, 07:57 PM Post #57 |
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Buh
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Lol ive seen it all PI, ive seen it all. I do not approve of the national socialist of that time nor will i ever. It was just a twisted version that Hitler created. I believe he tainted it so badly that people are now turned off by the mere name of it. So was i for many years, i just learned to accept everyone's beliefs no matter what they are now
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| Arov | Apr 23 2006, 10:16 PM Post #58 |
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Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
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To think that I voted for you in the Congressional elections... You do believe in ripping "non-white" people from their homes and deporting them to places where they may not have much of a future? What problems would the "white race" have with blacks, hispanics, asians, Jews, etc. if they aren't deported? Saying that any race is superior to others is wrong, be it the "German race" or the "white race". Please stop and think about what you just said before I have you banned. Also, if I recall, it was Hitler who initially founded the Nazi party. Your twisted understanding of the world is striking. |
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| The Ruescher Empire | Apr 23 2006, 10:22 PM Post #59 |
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Buh
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Lol oh Arov your a breath of fresh air :lol: And you say you will have me banned do you? Im sorry but i have not broken any law yet Arov. And for your information i do not believe in National Socialism, nor have I ever, i said i understand it and have a place for it in my heart. I do not like the idea of deporting peoples to their origin nations, nor do i believe that a government can be run by a dictator (in national socialism they dont care what kind of government system it is, and i believe no matter what it should be democracy). Either way Arov my personal beliefs and those of my office are seperate, you should always remember that. |
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| Arov | Apr 23 2006, 10:40 PM Post #60 |
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Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
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:sucide: I've said enough. By the way Ruescher, I'm Jewish, so when I hear somebody say that they "have a place in their heart" for Nazism it makes me want to throw up. My great, great uncle on my grandmother's father's side was betrayed to the Nazis by his neighbor in France. He never made it out of Auschwitz. The neighbor that betrayed him could have saved him from annihilation, but rather wanted to see him "deported". It would not have mattered to this neighbor whether my great, great uncle lived or died; but it did matter that he was out of his sight. You have a place in your heart for people like this? You may say that you don't believe in it, but you shouldn't even be paying lip-service to that ideology. ------------------------ [sigh] Let's get back to the topic about Fukuyama. |
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