Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]


Regional Summary




Founded - 30 April 2005
Population - 165 Nations
World Ranking - 61
Regional Power - High

Government of the Global Right Alliance


Speaker of the People's Assembly and World Assembly Delegate
Pidgeon Island

Members of the Committee
TBA

World Assembly Delegate
Angusp (aka Bodegraven)

High General of the GRADF
Joe Bobs
Welcome to the Global Right Alliance's forums!

Firstly, you can only see a very limited amount of the forums at the moment. You will be able to see the full forums and properly participate in our region and its community when you register.

Join our Community


Now, on to the region itself. Don't let the name, specifically the "Right", fool you. We've got members from across the political spectrum, and our political parties have always reflected this. The Global Right Alliance (GRA), as primarily a gameplay region, has been everything from an anarchy to a monarchy to a homegrown rotatorship. The region has had such governments because of its culture, which adores political intrigue and thrives on confrontation. With the increase of the region's population, many veterans have returned. It is the beginning of a new Global Right Alliance and a new government system.

I know the forums can be quite intimidating; there's people who have been here for nearly a decade and have over 10,000 posts. However, we welcome new members and encourage them to get involved. If you want help finding your way around, we have resources to help you to get on your way.

Getting Started


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features.

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Ha
Topic Started: Dec 1 2006, 11:36 AM (430 Views)
Old Zertaxia
Member Avatar
The Ex-Speaker
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15982036/


I have a terrorist rating.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Replies:
Pidgeon Island
Member Avatar
Not so stale.
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Why should people be forced to help others though? (Or in the real-world help politicians and low-lives, although they're much the same thing, get rich)

I thought you were meant to be an advocate of freedom L+H, how can you support such enforcement? Or is this another case of your "I support freedom but I don't allow it" philosphy that you showed when you were president?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Love and Honour
Member Avatar
Yes Sir; No Sir: 3 Bags Full Sir
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
So let me see In Pis brave new world (and correct me if I get anything wrong)

No Government
Rule by Corporation
No Social Services
No Foreign Aid
No Tax
Only Private Health Care
Only Private Education
A caste system with the less educated in the 2nd class.

By inference
Roads must all be tolled as no tax to build them.
Services for the disabled are entirely at the whim of the working elite.
No Military
No Police
No Firemen or civil defence.


Come on people I know there are more points I've missed :Laugh:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pidgeon Island
Member Avatar
Not so stale.
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Love and Honour
Dec 4 2006, 10:59 PM
So let me see In Pis brave new world (and correct me if I get anything wrong)

No Government
Rule by Corporation
No Social Services
No Foreign Aid
No Tax
Only Private Health Care
Only Private Education
A caste system with the less educated in the 2nd class.

By inference
Roads must all be tolled as no tax to build them.
Services for the disabled are entirely at the whim of the working elite.
No Military
No Police
No Firemen or civil defence.


Come on people I know there are more points I've missed :Laugh:

No my views are:

No government, just a set of laws that everyone must agree to or will be arrested and thrown in jail (I'll come onto this later)

No Social Services

No Foreign Aid (there's no bloody countries ffs)

No Tax

Only Private Health Care

Only Private Education

A class system with the less hard-working in the 2nd class.

Roads must all be tolled as no tax to build them.

Services for the disabled are entirely at the whim of the working elite. (people do have hearts you know)

No Military (we wouldn't need it, there'd be no governments, hence no countries)

Privatised Police/Firemen etc. People would pay a monthly/yearly fee to the company of their choice (ie. the best service available at the cheapest price). The private police would arrest those who refused to sign the laws. Also there'd be no gun laws so if someone tried to steal anything or attack you or anything you'd just put a load of shotgun pellets in their commie face. Of course the private police would arrest you if it wasn't in self defense though.

About prisons, they'd be privatised and inmates would have to work and pay rent in order to be fed/provided with water etc. otherwise... well they'd just be left in a cell and starved until they did some work.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Love and Honour
Member Avatar
Yes Sir; No Sir: 3 Bags Full Sir
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
Also there'd be no gun laws so if someone tried to steal anything or attack you or anything you'd just put a load of shotgun pellets in their commie face. Of course the private police would arrest you if it wasn't in self defense though.


I know just the guy :Laugh: :Laugh: :Laugh:

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pidgeon Island
Member Avatar
Not so stale.
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
And to answer one last question before i go to bed, to get revenge for what Stalin did to capitalists, there would be purges of communists.

















That was a joke by the way...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Estion
Persistent
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I'd like to explore PI's thought experiment a bit, and address some of the more provocative points:

1. No government

Let's make it easy and concede that it is feasible to eliminate government altogether and that society would function smoothly in such circumstances. We're compelled to ask: who will make the "laws" of which PI speaks? Who will be responsible for the maintenance of courts of law and the adjudication of personal, private, public, and corporate disputes? Hell, the very notion of a government-less society is at odds with the regime of "follow these laws or get thrown in jail" that PI has established. Who determines when a complex or subjective law has been broken? Also, anyone who has studied the law can attest that it is an adaptable and fluid institution, not an ever constant set of commandments. This is even more true for corporate and finance law, incidentally.

What if one company decided to team up with a tight, efficient police unit to launch a military campaign to eliminate a competitor? Perhaps it's against the "laws," but who's going to stop them if they get enough private military units to see the value of this sort of unionization? Of course, they have the guns to do it. More to the point, what's to stop me from shooting a "working class" man on the street and claiming he tried to steal my wallet? We've already relegated him to the status of second-class citizen. Who's going to care, and who's going to enforce "the law"?

Ooh, what happens if a certain activity, for example maintaining prisons, becomes economically inefficient? After all, not many people want chain gangs doing labor in their company or where they live, and it's expensive to feed, house, clothe, and guard hundreds of convicts (and since it's easy to get thrown in jail, there will be lots of them, I imagine). What happens when prisons say, "To hell with this. I can't afford to operate this business on an independent basis." Now we've found a socially irreplacable service that the market won't provide.

2. A class system with the "less-hard working" on the bottom

Without knowing PI, I do risk an unfair generalization with the following point, but I believe this to the statement of someone who has not had to do hard physical labor for a living. I grew up on a farm, gentlemen, and I have friends who work in steel mills. While I can't deny that the market values these roles less than, say, a lawyer, I find the allegation that they are "less-hard working" or less worthy than others to be a naive and callous affront to human decency.

Certainly, we're all aware at this point that PI does not tolerate those whom he views as lazy, stupid, disabled, disadvantaged, etc. etc. and prefers that they give up any ambition of self-improvement for themselves and their children. I disagree, as, I suspect, do many of you, but I will accept that point momentarily. Nevertheless, to ascribe to literally billions of people (after all, billions live on less than a dollar a day; fuck those lazy bastards!) the sort of second-class citizenship and moral judgment which PI seems content to dole out is, in my opinion, the most grotesque perversion of human decency imaginable.



I could go on, but that seems sufficient for now.

Quick P.S.: If anyone is interested/confused on this point, PI's proposal is nothing at all like fascism.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dupitable
Member Avatar
How do you like THAT side boob?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
You do realise in a world with no countries, no military and no gun laws. This is what would happen

1: get a bunch of guns, get a bunch of mates, take over a village, build the worlds only country,

2:take over next village. Other villages band together to stop me taking over them and form armies.

3:Armies need leaders. They are now countries

4: PI's dream crumbles

5:????

6: Profit
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Estion
Persistent
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I'm a fan of steps 5 and 6, Dup. I guess this makes you a Hobbesian realist, though, and not a more Kumbya-style liberal?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Love and Honour
Member Avatar
Yes Sir; No Sir: 3 Bags Full Sir
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
Quick P.S.: If anyone is interested/confused on this point, PI's proposal is nothing at all like fascism.


OK I withdraw that. B)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dupitable
Member Avatar
How do you like THAT side boob?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I don't know. Didn't Hobbes say that mans desire is to end war. Where as it is in my best interests to encourage it and wage it against the weaker villages.

Basicaly thats why these ideals of people going to live as equals in little autonomous villages wouldn't work. You would get dicks like me taking them over before the week was done.

Edit: L_H, A second ruling concept of fascism is embodied in the theory of social Darwinism. The doctrine of survival of the fittest and the necessity of struggle for life is applied by fascists to the life of a nation-state. Obviously here in replacement of the leaders is the Corporation owners, who would obviously be the best suited to their jobs and therefor the highest ideal of what a man should be. There are no elections and they rule through a private police force.

Fascism abhors the idea of a classless society and sees desirable order only in a state in which each class has its distinct place and function. Representation by classes (i.e., capital, labor, farmers, and professionals) is substituted for representation by parties, and the corporative state is a part of fascist dogma.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Estion
Persistent
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Spot on discussion of the role of corporatism in fascist ideology, Dup. To be fair, it was rarely as important in practice as it was espoused in ideology.

Good luck with the rape and pillage program.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pidgeon Island
Member Avatar
Not so stale.
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
1. May happen, but I'd like courts to be privatised too.

2. A class-system with the less hard-working (ie. those who currently live of government benefits) at the bottom, I'm sure if the labourers work hard enough, they will be payed for it.

Quote:
 
PI does not tolerate those whom he views as lazy, stupid, disabled, disadvantaged, etc. etc.
I tolerate the disabled, through charity, not government.

Quote:
 
Nevertheless, to ascribe to literally billions of people (after all, billions live on less than a dollar a day; fuck those lazy bastards!) the sort of second-class citizenship and moral judgment which PI seems content to dole out is, in my opinion, the most grotesque perversion of human decency imaginable.
We've already been over this, if they're hard-working, inginuitive and intelligent, they will succeed, just like people in more affluent parts of the world.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Estion
Persistent
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Dude, that's pretty intense bullshit. The American and European agricultural sectors survive only through huge (and I mean really huge) government subsidies (ditto, for example, for coal mining). The growing of food locally is viewed by many as a vital security interest. Admittedly, it's viewed as such primarily for natural security reasons, but even in your hypothetical, it would be important in cases of natural disaster or inconvenient market outcomes in the production of food. What's more, many people (ask the French, for instance) view the farm sector as an integral part of their cultural identity. These are people who *will not* survive in your world just by being "hard working."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dupitable
Member Avatar
How do you like THAT side boob?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Except in Britain where coal mining just doesn't survive.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Estion
Persistent
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Case in point. Well said, Dup.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Arov
Member Avatar
Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
When I read that article I nearly threw up. [terror rating goes up by two]

--------------

So PI wants trade to substitute war, with the less hardworking at the bottom....

In your OWN utopian vision (and I love to rip apart those things), the people who perform the menial tasks that society depends on in order to keep buildings from collapsing or to avert the Plague, for low wages, will be the least hard-working individuals in your little meritocracy.

I'll be damned.

-----------------

Dup,

That makes Communism a form of Fascism, no? if economic sectors are substituted for political parties as the basic units of rulership [as in the "Proletariat"]?

B)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dupitable
Member Avatar
How do you like THAT side boob?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
That makes Communism a form of Fascism, no? if economic sectors are substituted for political parties as the basic units of rulership [as in the "Proletariat"]?


No because it is the corporation owners who are ruling not the workers. Facism does have similarities with communism, however the main difference is facism supports and reinforces classes whereas comunism wants to do away with them.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Arov
Member Avatar
Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
In pretty much all Communist governments to date, state-owned worker's organizations that deal with production and distribution were the basic administrative units.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Estion
Persistent
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Arov, I wrote my senior thesis on European fascist movements, and without getting too deeply into specifics, there is no question that you are *wrong, wrong, wrong*.

Both theoretically and in practice, fascism existed largely as a movement in opposition to communism. I cannot stress this enough. Moreover, fascist scholarship has more or less discarded the notion that fascism was simply a right-wing movement of the lower-middle class. See Thomas Childers on this; his work is considered definitive in addressing the question of who voted for the Nazis. Fascism is *not* a class ideology.

There are other major differences, as well. The importance of the nation is paramount in fascist ideology and practice, and is utterly derided by communists (there is an interesting relationship of the Soviet regime to subnational identities, such as Ukranians). The state and especially the Party are central to fascism, while communism, at least in theory, advocated and predicted the permanent disintegration of both state and nation. Fascism, both ideologically and in practice, is predicated largely on militarism and violence, whereas communism (despite its ironically violent history) considers itself a peaceful, utopian vision of the future. Marx is the most obvious scholar on this point.

Other fundamental differences exist, but I think the point is made. Similarities between fascism and communism (sort of a misnomer, because Soviet and other "communist" regimes are hardly what Marx envisioned) are completely superficial, and should not suggest any deeper similarity, except to the layman.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Arov
Member Avatar
Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I was referring to specifically to Stalinist Russia and basically every other repressive Communist regime to date. Not Communism in theory.

I remember reading a children's book that mentioned two kingdoms who fought a bloody war with each other. One kindgom broke eggs from the top, the other kingdom broke eggs from the bottom. So they fought. Like Stalin's ultra-Left form of Communism and Mussolini's Far-right ideology. Approaches may be different, the effect is the same.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · OMAHD Archives · Next Topic »
Add Reply