Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]


Regional Summary




Founded - 30 April 2005
Population - 165 Nations
World Ranking - 61
Regional Power - High

Government of the Global Right Alliance


Speaker of the People's Assembly and World Assembly Delegate
Pidgeon Island

Members of the Committee
TBA

World Assembly Delegate
Angusp (aka Bodegraven)

High General of the GRADF
Joe Bobs
Welcome to the Global Right Alliance's forums!

Firstly, you can only see a very limited amount of the forums at the moment. You will be able to see the full forums and properly participate in our region and its community when you register.

Join our Community


Now, on to the region itself. Don't let the name, specifically the "Right", fool you. We've got members from across the political spectrum, and our political parties have always reflected this. The Global Right Alliance (GRA), as primarily a gameplay region, has been everything from an anarchy to a monarchy to a homegrown rotatorship. The region has had such governments because of its culture, which adores political intrigue and thrives on confrontation. With the increase of the region's population, many veterans have returned. It is the beginning of a new Global Right Alliance and a new government system.

I know the forums can be quite intimidating; there's people who have been here for nearly a decade and have over 10,000 posts. However, we welcome new members and encourage them to get involved. If you want help finding your way around, we have resources to help you to get on your way.

Getting Started


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features.

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 5
  • 7
Let's Impeach the president
Topic Started: Feb 4 2007, 09:34 PM (672 Views)
Love and Honour
Member Avatar
Yes Sir; No Sir: 3 Bags Full Sir
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Let's Impeach the President
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Replies:
Dupitable
Member Avatar
How do you like THAT side boob?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
There is a difference between war and murder.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jivdom
Member Avatar
Resident Insomniac
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
and there are differences between terrorists and freedom fighters but no one can agree who's who.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dupitable
Member Avatar
How do you like THAT side boob?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Erm, yes they can. It's really quite simple

Terrorist: Someone who uses tactics involving spreading terror throughout the populace of a country to influence it's government or a body of power.

Freedom Fighter: Someone who is fighting for the freedom of his people or country from another country, government or body of power.

A terrorist can be a freedom fighter, and a Freedom fighter can be a terroist. The two are not mutualy exclusive. However there is no grey area, they are clearly defined terms.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jivdom
Member Avatar
Resident Insomniac
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
lol... Alrght well it could be argued that Murderer and soldier are not mutally exclusive...

It could certainly be argued that the term soldier is merely a term used to justify the diffusion of responsibility that allows for murder in good conscience.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dupitable
Member Avatar
How do you like THAT side boob?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Well, the arguement would be, in war times both sides soldiers are 'consenting' so to speak. For example, if I was not willing to risk being shot, I would not join the army. Meaning in a war both sides are effectively consenting that they may be killed by the enemy. I know they might shoot me, they know I might shoot them. Which is diferent to murder which is often seen as taking someones life when they are not at all threatening you or even know that you are going to do it.

It's a strange morality, but I will try to define it a bit more. If say we go to war with France and Johhny Frenchman shoots me or one of my men, I will not hold anything personal against him for it. If he walks into a crowded cafe and machineguns a group of civilians, then I will hate him.

If you read the accounts of working class soldiers in the First World war, many enjoyed it. They saw non of the moral questions that have risen sinse vietnam. Most of the people who complained about WW1 were the upper middle class public schoolboys, and it is their image of war that has stuck on the public concience ever since.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jivdom
Member Avatar
Resident Insomniac
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Its called diffusion of responsibility...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Estion
Persistent
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Dupitable
Feb 11 2007, 02:10 PM
There is a difference between war and murder.

This reveals a pretty superficial understanding of politics and of history. What about the argument that killing on the proverbial "field of battle" (an altogether more uncertain term and locale in an age of urban warfare) is only distinct from criminal homicide in that the former is legitimized by the state? Weber made an oft-quoted statement to the effect that the state is the institution with a monopoly on legitimate violence.

If the distinction is purely one of "legitimation" by a political body, how do we distinguish between inhuman "homicide" and totally acceptable "war," particularly when the latter is being supported by a duly elected government that supports and advocates the execution of ideological/ethnic/national/political adversaries in its own or other countries? Better yet, how do we reconcile our approval of "war" with historic time periods in which war was carried out by religious organizations, or there was no legitimizing body at all?

Frankly, to argue that killing is a natural, even an essential element of our humanity, and then to attempt to discern some distinction between "war" and "murder" is absurd. Congratulations, Dup...you're the new PI in my book, complete with the dumbass idea of the week.

EDIT: for good measure, let's throw in a critique of Dup's discussion of WWI. Perhaps the most well-known literary commemoration of that grand episode was "All Quiet on the Western Front," which, if you haven't read it, certainly doesn't paint a pretty or enjoyable picture of the military experience. The less said about the fact that for the past two centuries, most wars (nearly all major ones) were fought by conscripted (not volunteer) armies, the better.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Love and Honour
Member Avatar
Yes Sir; No Sir: 3 Bags Full Sir
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Again

Estion your words are what I would say if only I was as eloquent.


:Cheers:


Quote:
 
Siegfried Sassoon, Suicide in the Trenches (1917)

I knew a simple soldier boy
Who grinned at life in empty joy,
Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
And whistled early with the lark.

In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
He put a bullet through his brain.
No one spoke of him again.

You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dupitable
Member Avatar
How do you like THAT side boob?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Yes and do you think the oiks of liverpool and Leeds could have written eloquent poetry. Believe me this is not something I have just pulled out of my arse, that was based on a lot of research done for university work. Most of the letters and memoirs complaining about WW1 were from public schoolboys, they painted this terrible picture of the war. Most of the letters home from thw working classes, or interviews conducted with them after the war showed that many enjoyed the war, they saw it as good fun. A lot of people boasted about kill counts (my lecturer's uncle boasted 300 as a machinegunner), something that would most certainly be frowned upon in todays world.

The distinction between murder and war is not something legitamised by governments. It is something legitamised by a man (or woman nowadays I guess) giving his consent that he might be killed or kill. The problem is when there are conscripts as they have not joined of their own free will and given an oath to risk their lives of their own free will. Many special forces still teach that once you have taken the oath you should consider yourself dead, that way you can soldier better, and you take responsibility for your own death.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Northern Chittowa
Member Avatar
The Grand Old Duke
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
Yes and do you think the oiks of liverpool and Leeds could have written eloquent poetry. Believe me this is not something I have just pulled out of my arse, that was based on a lot of research done for university work. Most of the letters and memoirs complaining about WW1 were from public schoolboys, they painted this terrible picture of the war. Most of the letters home from thw working classes, or interviews conducted with them after the war showed that many enjoyed the war, they saw it as good fun. A lot of people boasted about kill counts (my lecturer's uncle boasted 300 as a machinegunner), something that would most certainly be frowned upon in todays world.


Must admit that my grandad did say that when he was in the army it was the best days of his life...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Estion
Persistent
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Spoken, I'm sorry to say, by young men who have quasi-romantic and unrealistic notions of warfare. I've done some "university work" myself, and notions of modern warfare (the First World War in particular) as a grand and heroic excursion didn't last past 1914. This is a struggle that bled Europe white for a generation, and which, like nearly all modern wars, was fought in large measure by drafted soldiers without consent.

My brother and two good friends are now on their third tour of duty in Iraq, and would have some things to say regarding the blurred distinction between war and murder that wouldn't sit well with the fairly naive arguments currently on this thread.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Love and Honour
Member Avatar
Yes Sir; No Sir: 3 Bags Full Sir
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Heres hoping your brother and friends stay safe!

And get home soon.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dupitable
Member Avatar
How do you like THAT side boob?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
The person I reference joined in 1914 and was still fighting the war in 1918, Two of my Great grandparents fought in WW1 and my unclue fought in through much of the Troubles in N Irealand. My comments are not based on the opinions of people who have a naive and inexperianced views of war, they are extracted from the opinions of people who fought for long periods in wars.

I don't know about NC's grandfather wether he fought in a war or not. But it is not fair on your behalf to assume he didn't and as such had a naive and inexperianced view of it.

I was not saying people saw WW1 as a grand and a heroic campaign past 1914. I am saying that the soldiers fighting there, or at least the British working and lower middle class soldiers, did not see it as the disastarous terrible campaign that is the impression everyone is given today. Simply they did not have the post Vietnam abhorance to killing that is now present, many would boast about how many kills they got and thing like that, however if you were to say that kind of thing nowadays you would probably get locked up in an asylum.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Northern Chittowa
Member Avatar
The Grand Old Duke
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
I don't know about NC's grandfather wether he fought in a war or not. But it is not fair on your behalf to assume he didn't and as such had a naive and inexperianced view of it.


He did indeed fight in the war (Second) and was posted in places like Egypt, Iraq and most places involving sand strangely enough :P
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Arov
Member Avatar
Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Dupitable wants everyone to believe that it's alright to kill someone over their nationality because the victim consents to being killed. Makes me want to "lol". And that picture isn't even accurate most of the time. The most romanticized wars on earth were fought by conscripts.

--------

My great-grandfather fought in WWI. He developed PSTD after a minor car accident spurred his memories of the poison gas and bombs.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dupitable
Member Avatar
How do you like THAT side boob?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I would say the most romantasised war on earth was the Napoleonic war and Britain didn't use conscripts once during it. I don't think the French did until it was drawing to a close.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jivdom
Member Avatar
Resident Insomniac
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Dupitable
Feb 12 2007, 03:14 AM
Well, the arguement would be, in war times both sides soldiers are 'consenting' so to speak. For example, if I was not willing to risk being shot, I would not join the army. Meaning in a war both sides are effectively consenting that they may be killed by the enemy. I know they might shoot me, they know I might shoot them. Which is diferent to murder which is often seen as taking someones life when they are not at all threatening you or even know that you are going to do it.

It's a strange morality, but I will try to define it a bit more. If say we go to war with France and Johhny Frenchman shoots me or one of my men, I will not hold anything personal against him for it. If he walks into a crowded cafe and machineguns a group of civilians, then I will hate him.

If you read the accounts of working class soldiers in the First World war, many enjoyed it. They saw non of the moral questions that have risen sinse vietnam. Most of the people who complained about WW1 were the upper middle class public schoolboys, and it is their image of war that has stuck on the public concience ever since.

And all the ciliviens that die along side the soldiers? Where does bombing cities and such fall in your morality? It's not just soldiers who die...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Love and Honour
Member Avatar
Yes Sir; No Sir: 3 Bags Full Sir
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Aw surely they are just collateral damage and not counted?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jivdom
Member Avatar
Resident Insomniac
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I suppose you could hand out indemnity forms before you boom them to ensure you have their permission...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Love and Honour
Member Avatar
Yes Sir; No Sir: 3 Bags Full Sir
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
We could do the same for property and get permission to destroy it.

Hell lets get permission slips from the planet and have an all out nuclear war.

It would be such fun :o
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Fully Featured & Customizable Free Forums
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · OMAHD Archives · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 5
  • 7