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Founded - 30 April 2005
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Anarchy?
Topic Started: Apr 2 2007, 10:44 PM (343 Views)
Jivdom
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Is Anarchy the aim of society or is it the enermy?

Is Anarchy the perfect system of government or is it just the failure of government?
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VincentDantes
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People are social creatures and any social group develops a natural hierarchy. When you get a hierarchy you get leadership and eventually government [as the social group grows]. Anarchy would be perfect if humanity could change its genes and make it so that nobody wants to or needs to dominate over someone else.

Some people are just naturally dominant, and seek to dominate over others even sub-consciously.

So...I don't really think anarchy can exist without a whole population fracturing into thousands of small groups and then competing [violently] to dominate. You'd eventually end up with control over land and get the city-state and eventually city-states would unite to form alliances, unions, whole countries and there would be some kind of federal government.

Plus people can't handle having total freedom.
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Jivdom
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VD. have you read Isiah Berlin's lectures on liberty?
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VincentDantes
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No...why. Does he prove everything I said completely wrong? Cuz that's usually the case when someone asks me "Did you read so-and-so's book on how you are completely wrong."
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Jivdom
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No... He said a lot of stuff much like you.

Quote:
 
So...I don't really think anarchy can exist without a whole population fracturing into thousands of small groups and then competing [violently] to dominate.

he called that Negative Liberty.
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VincentDantes
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LoL... well thats a surprise.
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Jivdom
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Don;t you think people are entirely hypocritcal when it comes to government. We want a dictator who is entirely altrustic but if we were better equip ourselves I think Anarchy is the perfect government that we are working towards.
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VincentDantes
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I don't think we are working towards it willingly, as much as its a very possibly end result.

If in the next 100 years nothing happens that will wipe us out, things like country/state/nationality probably won't exist anymore, we'll all be one huge country. But we won't be ruled by a government.

Corporations will take over and the whole world will run without government.



So yea...thats really the only type of anarchism or no-government I can possibly imagine. Keep in mind that even know both Canada and US [US more] are really slaves to big corporations.

Corporations really do control everything because their money gives them power, and it currently work's to their benefit to keep people thinking they are still lead by a democratic government and that they the people have power.
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Dupitable
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_For_Your...ow_Dream_Ticket

First step...


Anyway. I think Anarchy is the worst idea for a society that there is.

Simply because, an ordered society unites people and encourages people to stand up for each other (though less so in recent years). In an anarchaic society here people are encouraged only to look out for themselves it would be very easily abused.

For example, I perfectly legaly own several swords. Now if right this second I get a bunch of my mates together give them one each and say 'lets go sieze control of a group of people', we will be shot quite quickly by an ARU, or if we were really that powerfull, the army.

However, in an anarchaic society there would be no police, no army, no civil defence organisations. I could get my friends together, arm ourselves with swords, and we could quite easily force order on people. Nobody would stand up for anyone else, and even if they did, it would be unorganised and easily crushed.

Situations like that would happen all over the country, and it would basicaly return to an animal stage as different small groups fight each other in the ruins of the cities. Eventualy someone would unite a few groups to form a small society, a 'tribe' if you will. One tribe with an advantage, say control of a hospital or arms factory/weapons stockpile, will gain the advantage, they will be able to form a solid organised society that is more technolicaly advanced than the others.

In the following years tribe after tribe will fall under the control of these civilisations and they will become nations. The authoritarian governing methods that were acceptable in the tribal and group period will begin to be questioned. and that is roughly where we were in about the 16th century.

After that nothing is a dead certain.

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The Ruescher Empire
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Buh
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Ya Anarchy is impossible for the reason that the person with the most friends and guns will end up ruling over others, creating a system of dispotic governments which would war against each other or unite against others and eventually we'd all be back at where we are now :P
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Jivdom
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If education got to the point where everyone in a society was equipt with inteligence and forsight then I still say Anarchy is the aim. If men were angels no government would be nessarcary. No rules just civil responsibility. That's utopia.
Perfect Negative Liberty at its finnest.
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Dupitable
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Men 'aint angels, so it won't happen.
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Jivdom
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Is it not the point of society to work towards perfection though? Are we not attempting to be angels in the long run. Thereforea functioning Anarchy is the aim if it is unreachable.
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Dupitable
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No not really. Some people may try to be angels but it doesn't mean everyone does.
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Jivdom
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You miss understand me. I am not talking about individual people I am talking about collective society.
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Dupitable
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The majority of people will more happily search out for self fullfillment over being an 'angel'.

Most people will do very little to help each other.

Even fewer will fight for others.

Even fewer will die for others.
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Jivdom
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I agree. Individuals will perhaps help friends and family but few others...

As a society we are moving towards civilisation and relative social unity. In this movement, our societies' eventual aim is to require structured system of government because we will have all we need ourselves in our own self of morality, practicality and responsibility. This implies legal anarchy with a strong social structure held in place by nothing except collective responsibility of society.
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Arov
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Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
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"Legal anarchy"...

Isn't that oxymoron?

And when one thinks about it, the whole of humanity is always and has always been in a state of anarchy, with government being its result. We cannot 'aim for anarchy' per say, can we? When we got together and decided on our social goals, government was born.
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Arov
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Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
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Any response?
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Jivdom
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Sorry... This thread got burried in others.

Quote:
 
Isn't that oxymoron?

Yep.

Quote:
 
We cannot 'aim for anarchy' per say, can we? When we got together and decided on our social goals, government was born.

I disagree. We got opressed and have slowly been moving to a situation where we are less oppressed. From dictators to democracy. The aim is the move power from government to the people thus moving to a less powerful government. following this trend to its end = anarchy.
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